The Spanish Civil War. Casado's coup.

[Kevbad the Bad]

A lot of people, particularly anarchists, know quite a bit about the 'May Days' in Barcelona in 1937 during the Spanish Civil War. It was a civil war within a civil war, a conflict between anarchists and the POUM on the one hand and the government/communists on the other. Less well known is Cosado's coup at the end of the war. Cosado was a republican who apparently hoped to reach some kind of accomodation with the fascists, if only to allow people to leave the country alive. He was also very opposed to the Spanish (and Russian) communists. The coup was successful after a brief but very bloody conflict with the communists but the soldiers at the front immediately began to desert in huge numbers and the war came to an end with all the attendant bloodshed and years and years of savage repression.

What I've never really understood is this. The Madrid anarchists were enthusiastic supporters of Casado's coup. Why? Did they not realise how dicey things were at the front? Were they so driven by their hatred of the Communists that they overlooked just how problematic and precarious their own situation was? Surely they hadn't fooled themselves into thinking they could negotiate with Franco?

I've never read anywhere a clear explanation or justification from an anarchist position of their involvement in Casado's coup. Anyone got any ideas?

 

[dessiato]

I've not heard of this coup before, despite reading a fair bit about the Civil War. Could you, please, point me towards a book I could read, or some other sources? Thanks

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I've not heard of this coup before, despite reading a fair bit about the Civil War. Could you, please, point me towards a book I could read, or some other sources? Thanks

Any standard history of the Civil War will refer to it in the last month of the war. The fighting was mainly in and around Madrid and some two thousand people died as a result. The Communists were resoundingly defeated, but it precipitated a wholesale retreat of soldiers from the front line and consequent fascist victory. I've never understood the reasons why the conflict was so intense, why the Madrid anarchists put their faith in Casado, who seems to have been a dubious character, and quite why the end of the war was so immediate and complete.

 

[The39thStep]

Any standard history of the Civil War will refer to it in the last month of the war. The fighting was mainly in and around Madrid and some two thousand people died as a result. The Communists were resoundingly defeated, but it precipitated a wholesale retreat of soldiers from the front line and consequent fascist victory. I've never understood the reasons why the conflict was so intense, why the Madrid anarchists put their faith in Casado, who seems to have been a dubious character, and quite why the end of the war was so immediate and complete.

So communists died but anarchists survived under this coup ?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

So communists died but anarchists survived under this coup ?

People died on both sides, of course, but in this case the communists came off worse.

 

[The39thStep]

People died on both sides, of course, but in this case the communists came off worse.

Thought you said the anarchists supported the coup and the communists fought it ?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

A lot of people, particularly anarchists, know quite a bit about the 'May Days' in Barcelona in 1937 during the Spanish Civil War. It was a civil war within a civil war, a conflict between anarchists and the POUM on the one hand and the government/communists on the other. Less well known is Cosado's coup at the end of the war. Cosado was a republican who apparently hoped to reach some kind of accomodation with the fascists, if only to allow people to leave the country alive. He was also very opposed to the Spanish (and Russian) communists. The coup was successful after a brief but very bloody conflict with the communists but the soldiers at the front immediately began to desert in huge numbers and the war came to an end with all the attendant bloodshed and years and years of savage repression.

What I've never really understood is this. The Madrid anarchists were enthusiastic supporters of Casado's coup. Why? Did they not realise how dicey things were at the front? Were they so driven by their hatred of the Communists that they overlooked just how problematic and precarious their own situation was? Surely they hadn't fooled themselves into thinking they could negotiate with Franco?

I've never read anywhere a clear explanation or justification from an anarchist position of their involvement in Casado's coup. Anyone got any ideas?

I've never heard of this before in all my days

Source?

 

[Sweet FA]

Books about the Spanish Civil War I reckon.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I've never heard of this before in all my days

Source?

Any book about the war. Beevor's or Thomas's or Peston's. It was all in the last days, the last month.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Thought you said the anarchists supported the coup and the communists fought it ?

That's right.

 

[Serge Forward]

I reckon charlie mowbray will have an answer for you.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Any book about the war. Beevor's or Thomas's or Peston's. It was all in the last days, the last month.

So you can't produce any actual evidence of this coup?

Can you provide any solid evidence that 'the anarchists' supported this supposed coup?

I'd imagine that , if they did, it may have only been a certain faction of anarchists that did so, and not necessarily all of them.

 

[Serge Forward]

Meanwhile, Segismundo Casado - Wikipedia

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I reckon charlie mowbray will have an answer for you.

That'd be good. That's what I'm after.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

So you can't produce any actual evidence of this coup?

Can you provide any solid evidence that 'the anarchists' supported this supposed coup?

I'd imagine that , if they did, it may have only been a certain faction of anarchists that did so, and not necessarily all of them.

Come on mate. I'm not looking for a fight here. It's an area of Spanish anarchist history that's always puzzled me. Maybe things just got out of control. The unexpected is always unexpected. Maybe the collapse of the front was going to happen anyway, because of the economic blockade by the UK, France etc and Stalin reducing arms supplies. I'd just like an explanation or some ideas.

 

[petee]

Meanwhile, Segismundo Casado - Wikipedia

also,

National Defence Council (Spain) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Gramsci]

Any book about the war. Beevor's or Thomas's or Peston's. It was all in the last days, the last month.

I read Beevor's book some time ago.

From what your saying this took place at very end of the war. When all was lost anyway.

Stalin had been supporting section of those who fought Franco. The Stalinist Communist party was small. People like Negrin were seen as to close to Soviet Union.

My partners family were and are PSOE. Ie not Communist or Anarchist.

Many socialists / Anarchists were never happy with the influence of the Soviet Union.

Some Anarchists had joined the government.

My reading of Beevor was that whilst Soviet Union did give much needed military aid and support its influence on the military tactics on how the war was fought and the imposition of Stalinism on Republican Spaniards was one of the things that lost the war.

 

[The39thStep]

Aside from 'it took place at the end. When all was lost anyway' and 'I'm sure it wasn't all the anarchists just a few' can anybody actually explain this incident, please ? It all sounds like the Communist Party, the Soviet Union and Stalin were a bigger problem than Franco?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Stalinism and Francoism are equally shite

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Aside from 'it took place at the end. When all was lost anyway' and 'I'm sure it wasn't all the anarchists just a few' can anybody actually explain this incident, please ? It all sounds like the Communist Party, the Soviet Union and Stalin were a bigger problem than Franco?

Franco was without doubt the bigger problem. Leader of a murderous regime with so much blood on its hands. The Spanish Communists were controlled completely by Stalin for his own purposes and were widely distrusted, disliked and hated. Were it not for the fact that Russia provided some arms for the republican side their influence would have been minimal. So I can understand why the conflict between the anarchists and communists happened, just not the timing. All those deaths at the very end of things. When people knew there wasn't much chance of success. Yet the coup and its aftermath seem to have precipitated the total collapse of the Republic. So why go along with it?

 

[The39thStep]

Stalinism and Francoism are equally shite

Sort of plague on both their houses type situation where the correct position is to not just side with Casado who wants to do a deal with Franco, but to military defeat the Communists so that they can be handed over Franco?

 

[hitmouse]

I can't be arsed digging it out and going through it right now, but Ronald Fraser's Blood of Spain is a fantastic source for understanding the war through the eyes of the participants, if there's any English-language book where you can read what Madrid anarchists or anyone else who was around at the time thought of it it's likely to be in there I reckon.
Libcom has it in epub and mobi but not pdf, not sure what you'd need to open it in those formats?

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Perhaps a coup by surrenderists would create a possibility of some kind of post-war resistance, which Negrin's reluctance to surrender was preventing.

 

[petee]

I can't be arsed digging it out and going through it right now, but Ronald Fraser's Blood of Spain is a fantastic source for understanding the war through the eyes of the participants, if there's any English-language book where you can read what Madrid anarchists or anyone else who was around at the time thought of it it's likely to be in there I reckon.
Libcom has it in epub and mobi but not pdf, not sure what you'd need to open it in those formats?

i own a print copy of it

 

[hitmouse]

i own a print copy of it

My family has a print copy as well, I thought I'd stolen my parents' copy but having looked around my room a bit maybe I hadn't. I do, however, have a print copy of Jose Peirats' Anarchists in the Spanish revolution - looks like that deals with it a bit in the final chapter starting on page 318.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

My family has a print copy as well, I thought I'd stolen my parents' copy but having looked around my room a bit maybe I hadn't. I do, however, have a print copy of Jose Peirats' Anarchists in the Spanish revolution - looks like that deals with it a bit in the final chapter starting on page 318.

Thanks. I'll have a read of that.

 

[Serge Forward]

Aside from 'it took place at the end. When all was lost anyway' and 'I'm sure it wasn't all the anarchists just a few' can anybody actually explain this incident, please ? It all sounds like the Communist Party, the Soviet Union and Stalin were a bigger problem than Franco?

In many ways they were.

 

[The39thStep]

In many ways they were.

So in many ways then Franco rather than a bourgeois republic with CP in it ? Straight fight ?

 

[Serge Forward]

Silly. You know what I'm talking about

 

[hitmouse]

Trying not to spend all day reading about this, but I think by March 1939 there was fuck-all chance of a bourgeois republic with CP in it winning the war or still existing by the end of the year anyway. Which left a pretty horrible choice in terms of how long you keep fighting an unwinnable war, and at what point do you just cut and run and prioritise getting as many people out of the country as you can. Obviously in retrospect it's easy enough to say "I would simply have kept the war going until WWII started and also have undercut Morroccan support for Franco by granting independence", but I can see how things might not have looked that clear-cut at the time, and I don't think people arguing that the war was lost and that they needed to recognise that were any more pro-Franco than the CP position.