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The police state is nearly here - Guardian

I'm just surprised he did not announce that all babies born to "criminal" families are to be handcuffed on birth by state midwives/baby prison officers.......


Giles..
 
Replace the youth centres now - with indoor and outdoor hang-outs.

Don't like kids on street corners?

Give them somewhere to be/go where they won't be moved on.

The measures proposed by Govt. won't solve crime or youth boredom (govtspeak=delinquincy - how I hate that word) - All this does is divert funds from much needed youth projects into the hands of people whose business is boosted and served by crime - crime is their business.

The recent £5 million to fight 'extremist muslim youth' was an insult to our intelligence - a Blairite spin to cover-up 10 years of New Labour neglect on top of years of Tory disdain for council-provided youth-young adult services. Religious communities, incl. Muslim and Christian communities are about the only groups still building all-age multi-use, open-to-all community centres - but it's not enough.

Walk around most industrial urban centres, and you'll see dilapidated council buildings abandoned in parks or fields, or on busy streets that were once youth centres either closed or shabby and run-down to the point where they're in dire need of cash-input to renovate them to standards exacted by social services and health and safety departments. We need social-centres restoring (all-age, preferably) - not another bloody business park!
 
We need to identify the think tank that dreamt this scheme up.

We then must explore their links to the agency who will benefit from these 'technological gadget sales' who have a financial interest in suggesting these type of totalitarian solutions.

My guess is that most of those gadgets are via Qinetiq.
 
yes, I read that in the indy, this morning.


The children of prisoners, problem drug users and others at high risk of offending will also face being "actively managed" by social services and youth justice workers


reeducation? break up of undesirable families? by the same social workers who abduct the children of innocent mothers?
 
Perhaps they should go the whole hog and start measuring peoples features again, the victorian criminology of physiognomy I believe.


In the 18th and 19th centuries, physiognomy was used by some of its proponents as a method of detecting criminal tendencies. Many bigots and racists still use physiognomy to judge character and personality.
 
It's not seriously going to happen; it's just Blair trying desperately for a bit more "legacy", and probably also a bit of the usual scare announcement stuff so that whatever does happen doesn't seem so bad.

It does confirm what he's repeatedly proved already though, which is that concerns for civil liberties and privacy - or even the concern not to _appear_ like authoritarian bastards - are practically non-existent in the upper echelons of New Labour. Blair's on his way out, but there will be people who've been involved in this who won't be; they're the ones to watch.
 
The British Constitution is based on the assumption of reasonableness, ie that the rights of the citizen are not trampled on. Unfortunately this agreement has been broken now and so the best response would be to have a debate about what should be in a British written constitution.
 
The children of prisoners, problem drug users and others at high risk of offending will also face being "actively managed" by social services and youth justice workers

;)

HitlerYouth.jpg
 
guinnessdrinker said:
yes, I read that in the indy, this morning.

reeducation? break up of undesirable families? by the same social workers who abduct the children of innocent mothers?

Social policy with applied Eugenics?
 
Gmarthews said:
Compulsory scouts cool!! :)

they'll be learning to live out there in the wild lighting their own fire and cooking their own grub, and lo and behold, we'll have the next generation of road protesters! bring it on!
 
Is it a joking or deluded matter that the country is on the verge of entering police statedom?

I know the british are good at humour, especially in rough times, but this police state thing is just about upon you.

Are the police any good at solving crimes that involve the people as victims, eg burglary, rape, murder; or are they no more than puppets of the government, themselves puppets of others not so openly in power?

If the british press wonders if the country is nearly a police state, then i'd say that it has already become one.

What you all gonna do about it??
 
guinnessdrinker said:
yes! on the barricades, citizens!
Except there's another big brother initiative coming to some barricades near you!

Well, not exactly, they're going to criminalise demonstrations near significant public buildings such as Downing Street, Buckingham Palace.

All I can say is: What out Brian Haw, they slipped up last time, this time I reckon they're going to make sure they've dotted the Is and crossed the Ts.

:(
 
Frank Drebben said:
Oh well if the liberal intelligensia like the Guardian say a Police State is around the corner then it must be true.

Frank - try reading the link next time - the Guardian do not say there is a police state, I have raised it as a possibility given the new range of measures the government say they are going to bring in...
 
fela fan said:
Is it a joking or deluded matter that the country is on the verge of entering police statedom?

I know the british are good at humour, especially in rough times, but this police state thing is just about upon you.

Are the police any good at solving crimes that involve the people as victims, eg burglary, rape, murder; or are they no more than puppets of the government, themselves puppets of others not so openly in power?

If the british press wonders if the country is nearly a police state, then i'd say that it has already become one.

What you all gonna do about it??

They are going to haw haw haw all the way to the gas chambers, after which their sang really will be froid.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
It's not seriously going to happen; it's just Blair trying desperately for a bit more "legacy", and probably also a bit of the usual scare announcement stuff so that whatever does happen doesn't seem so bad.
Blair's corporate buddies are selling the State as much 'security' crap as they can before he leaves office. My guess is if we asked police if these gadgets will help them solve crime, or prevent crime, or solve the plight of disaffected youth, they'll say 'NO'.
It does confirm what he's repeatedly proved already though, which is that concerns for civil liberties and privacy - or even the concern not to _appear_ like authoritarian bastards - are practically non-existent in the upper echelons of New Labour. Blair's on his way out, but there will be people who've been involved in this who won't be; they're the ones to watch.
You're right - they need watching carefully.
Blair could have lifted this from a 60s Fabian pamphlett
and http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Tony_Blair

Already part of the MOD has been split up, following 'the American Model' - first an agency is formed, then it is sold off to (usually) American corporations. Part of the UK's Military Research & Development has been sold to the US Carlyle Group since Blair took power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QinetiQ

The American Model won't affect SIS though (Security Services MI5, MI6) - instead, private corporations that offer terrorism risk assessment, hostage negotiation, and surveillance are gaining ground in the UK and gaining more business on the back of 7/7 (e.g.Inkerman Group). Instead of using our existing police force, private security firms are now popular in corporate circles. Private security firms have been used recently by two companies who are riding roughshod over political processes and the rule of law (npower, agrexco).

Basically, this looks to be the way the Govt. is heading: breaking up state-run institutions - the Military, the Prisons, the Psychiatric Hospitals, as well as Hospitals, Clinics and Supermarket-style General Practioners (eg. ASDA)

Further worries are that if we allow the State to implement high-tech consumer solutions, derived from obscure think-tankers who have quiet links to various corporations, when the reality that the problems are mainly sociological and can only be solved by people working with and caring for other people, then the State is wasting the taxes given to it by it's citizens and acting as a sales conduit for coroporate business, rather than administering to it's citizens' needs.

We don't need expensive thinktanks or high-tech gadgets to solve our social problems - we need the Govt to work for us - instead of syphoning our taxes away to multinational corporations.

What about pumping billions into community centres and involving those communities in their creation from the word go - getting onto the streets and asking those 'feral' kids what they'd rather be doing?

Attica - we could construct a questionnaire, and get urbanites across the country to get onto the streets in the evening and ask those kids questions about what they want, where they'd rather be - indoors playing pool or outdoors, or watching a movie from a community video library, rather than hanging on the streets, being moved on by twitchy neighbours and disgruntled cops.

The Govt. spend tens of thousands on crap think tanks, and always come up with more and more 'controls', more gadgets, and more laws, never thinking to involve The Citizens how they'd like to see their taxes are invested. The current processes are a sham.
 
What do they mean by collecting DNA from all "suspects who come into contact with the police"? Is this intended to say the peelers will collect DNA from you during a stop and search. Talk of a mobile fingerprint-reader indicates in that direction.

Treating children of "problem families" as criminals-in-waiting is a direct consequence of the "crime disease" philosophy beloved by the Left. If our good behaviour depends on our good fortune then we're all potential criminals. If on the other hand crime is a deliberate moral choice then such moves are as useless as they are totalitarian.

Look closely at Labour's battery of "tough" legislation. It has not toughened prison conditions one jot. Apart from a few headline-grabbing sentences it has increased early release for convicts. These people have not the slightest interest in re-introducing a retributive philosophy of punishment: they use crime as a pretext to engineer consent for policies that redefine citizenship to match their twisted and Orwellian view of human nature.

Opposing these totalitarian policies is easy. But unless the Left recants of its lazy and unjust view of criminal victimhood that opposition is doomed to failure. The necessary trade off for enjoying civil liberties is the vigorous punishment of the guilty. A February edition of the Politics Show featured a penal reformer and Zoe Williams smugly denouncing hard labour as "uncivilised". (It's interesting to note that liberals denounce retributive punishment far more vigorously than they defend procedural safeguards.)

These measures are not imposed from above: they are wildly popular because people are desperate to feel safe. Unless the Left admits its mistake, apologieses unreservedly for coddling cruel and wicked people, and rapidly lends its support to the difficult policies that achieve both safety and freedom, democracy will destroy liberty.
 
And if anyone thinks I'm exaggerating how badly this "debate" is misconstrued and distorted, check out this comment from the 'Guardian' talkboard: it reads simply: "New Labour = old Tory."

Some rudimentary solutions to the crisis in liberty and order: repeal immediately the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, and replace it with a simple set of rules protecting the basic welfare of suspects; restore the double jeopardy rule, the right to silence, unanimous jury verdicts, and destroy the fingerprints and DNA of everyone without a criminal conviction. Rebuild magistrates courts adjoining or close to police stations, and re-open local stations; return to a beat system of patrolling; and order the CPS to prosecute immediately every suspect against whom a prima facie case exists.

Repeal all the useless "anti-terrorism" laws, with their convoluted offences and draconian powers, and prosecute terrorists under murder, conspiracy and explosives laws; return the focus to the feral thugs which blight our lives far more frequently than exploding fanatics.

Begin at once a massive prison building programmed, so again it can be one cell = one convict. Impose the most austere conditions on prisoners, implement the silent system and the separate system, and sentence all violent and other serious criminals to hard labour. Make it absolutely clear to cocky young hellions that they are not untouchable and that prison is a place they absolutely do not want to be.

Do all that, and we have at least a reasonable chance our society's descent into lawlessness and tyranny will be arrested. Instead of its law abiding citizens.
 
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