The Man Who Would Be King BBC4 tonight.

[Reno]

i think jude law's best performance was in the oscar wilde film fry was in, and that was back in '97, '98

Jude Law is A highly respected stage actor.I saw him in Anna Christie at the Donmar and he was excellent. As an actor he is technically far more versatile than either Connery or Caine. He was pretty good in the recent submarine thriller Black Sea and he gave the best performance in the recent Anna Karenina. In The Talented Mr Ripley he is hugely charismatic and he would have made a far better Ripley than Matt Damon.

Connery and Caine were lucky that they were at the height of their careers in the 60s and 70s when the quality of films being made was much higher and offered them better roles that what today's actors get. Hence both Law And Cumberbatch do much their best work on the stage.

There is this British habit of hating contemporary actors until they've reached national treasure status. Both Caine and Connery were much mocked in the 70s and 80s, now they are considered legends

 

[Pickman's model]

Jude Law is an excellent and highly respected stage actor.I saw him in Anna Christie at the Donmar and he was excellent. As an actor he is technically far more versatile than either Connery or Caine. He was pretty good in the recent submarine thriller Black Sea and he gave the best performance in the recent Anna Karenina. In The Talented Mr Ripley he is hugely charismatic and he would have made a far better Ripley than Matt Damon.

Connery and Caine were lucky that they were at the height of their careers in the 60s and 70s when the quality of films being made was much higher and offered them better roles that what today's actors get. Hence both Law And Cumberbatch do much their best work on the stage.

There is this British habit of hating contemporary actors until they've reached national treasure status. Both Caine and Connery were much mocked in the 70s and 80s, now they are considered legends

yeh. but i think you'll find most of that mocking due to their working class backgrounds rather than their acting.

 

[danny la rouge]

yeh. but i think you'll find most of that mocking due to their working class backgrounds rather than their acting.

I don't remember Connery or Caine mocked for their acting in the 70s or 80s. In fact Connery got his Oscar on the 80s.

 

[trabuquera]

?? but Michael Caine can hardly act at all. As anything except, er, Michael Caine or some fractional variant thereof. That's why any lazy comic can imitate him, and anyone recognise the imitation in seconds - because Caine is Caine is Caine, and that's a fantastic thing and just right in some of the roles he's had. But it's not really acting.

There are all sorts of reasons why I should hate Jude Law (not the most family-oriented bloke, apparently, tangled up with al that Britpop/cool Britannia/primrose hill wankery, pretty-boy dreamboat looks, starring in that remake of Alfie, the list goes on...) but actually I can't hate him, and he really CAN act - I've never seen him on stage but have been impressed by him often where he seemed unafraid to make the looks work for a petulant or hateful character (Gattaca, Wilde, EXistenZ) or to be the only person doing any proper work in deeply dubious projects (Enemy at the Gates, Cold Mountain, Sherlock Holmes).

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't remember Connery or Caine mocked for their acting in the 70s or 80s. In fact Connery got his Oscar on the 80s.

quite.

 

[Reno]

yeh. but i think you'll find most of that mocking due to their working class backgrounds rather than their acting.

Connery was (unfairly) seen as not being able to escape the shadow of Bond till he won an Oscar for The Untouchables and Caine was (rightly) mocked for appearing in an incredible lot of truly shit films.

If they were mocked for being working class then only because they couldn't shake their accents when the roles required it.

 

[Bakunin]

...remember seeing this at the local flea pit in the holidays in a double-bill with a long forgotten Gene Hackman film called March or Die that from memory was an attempt to do Zulu crossed with Beau Geste...

I very much enjoyed 'March or Die,' personally.

 

[Pickman's model]

Connery was (unfairly) seen as not being able to escape the shadow of Bond till he won an Oscar for The Untouchables and Caine was (rightly) mocked for appearing in an incredible lot of truly shit films.

If they were mocked for being working class then only because they couldn't shake their accents when the roles required it.

tbh you're all over the shop here because one minute they're being mocked for their acting and the next they're being mocked for a) being typecast or b) working on shit films. why the shifting goalposts?

 

[Reno]

I don't remember Connery or Caine mocked for their acting in the 70s or 80s. In fact Connery got his Oscar on the 80s.

...and there was 15 years of a patchy career since Bond till he won his Oscar. After that his career took off again and got his national treasure status. He actually made some great films in the 70s but most of them weren't very successful and the star gets the blame for that.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The bloke said to have inspired Kipling to write the story is sort of interesting too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josiah_Harlan

 

[danny la rouge]

...and there was 15 years of a patchy career since Bond till he won his Oscar. After that his career took off again and got his national treasure status. He actually made some great films in the 70s but most of them weren't very successful and the star gets the blame for that.

I've never liked Bond. I do like Sean in a lot of things though. Always have done .

And I like a lot of Caine films, but not the Italian Job, which is shit in every way. Especially the ending.

 

[Reno]

tbh you're all over the shop here because one minute they're being mocked for their acting and the next they're being mocked for a) being typecast or b) working on shit films. why the shifting goalposts?

All of which actors get the blame for and it all feeds into the perception of a star.

Let me remind you that all of this started with a mocking of Jude Law and Cumberbatch because the suggestion that they could be anywhere as good as Caine and Connery is apparently ridiculous. Then I drew a parallel between them and when Caine and Connery and that they were not nearly as respected when they were the age of Law and Cumberbatch and that the British are down on their actors till they reach national treasure status.

You yet again are arguing in your pedantic way where you pick posts apart word by word to supply evidence that the other party is wrong, till everybody is losing the big picture.

 

[Pickman's model]

All of which actors get the blame for and it all feeds into the perception of a star.

Let me remind you that all of this started with a mocking of Jude Law and Cumberbatch because the suggestion that they could be anywhere as good as Caine and Connery is apparently ridiculous. Then I drew a parallel between them and when Caine and Connery and that they were not nearly as respected when they were the age of Law and Cumberbatch and that the British are down on their actors till they reach national treasure status.

You yet again are arguing in your pedantic way where you pick posts apart word by word to supply evidence that the other party is wrong, when till everybody is losing the big picture.

right. so it's my fault you're inconsistent

 

[Reno]

I've never liked Bond. I do like Sean in a lot of things though. Always have done .

And I like a lot of Caine films, but not the Italian Job, which is shit in every way. Especially the ending.

Doesn't matter whether you like Bond. I was talking about perceptions of actors and careers.

 

[Reno]

right. so it's my fault you're inconsistent

Fuck you too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Fuck you too.

i think this points to the paucity of your argument, if it does not stand up to scrutiny: and on this being observed rather than strengthen your point you resort to swearing. and - what's worse - unimaginative swearing, too.

 

[danny la rouge]

Doesn't matter whether you like Bond. I was talking about perceptions of actors and careers.

I was watching films in the 70s and 80s. Both Connery and Caine were big names and big stars during that period. Yes, they both had their duds, but their stardom overshadowed those. I don't remember their screen presence ever being doubted by anyone at any time.

Connery has folk knocking his accent (unfairly: he's far from the only actor who only does one accent), but nobody ever seriously says he can't act. Nobody said credibly it in the 70s or 80s and nobody says it credibly now.

So who held these perceptions is open to question.

As for Law, like I say I don't remember seeing him in anything (I didn't see any of the films mentioned save for Wilde, and I must have seen that before I knew who he was), so I can't comment on his ability.

Cumberbatch seems pretty able from what I've seen (although I bored of Sherlock last series, because I found the writing and direction extremely irritating). I would say that the media scrum over his Hamlet suggests he very much *isn't* seen as a second rate actor.

 

[danny la rouge]

Doesn't matter whether you like Bond. I was talking about perceptions of actors and careers.

I was watching films in the 70s and 80s. Both Connery and Caine were big names and big stars during that period. Yes, they both had their duds, but their stardom overshadowed those. I don't remember their screen presence ever being doubted by anyone at any time.

Connery has folk knocking his accent (unfairly: he's far from the only actor who only does one accent), but nobody ever seriously says he can't act. Nobody said it credibly in the 70s or 80s and nobody says it credibly now.

So who held these perceptions is open to question.

As for Law, like I say I don't remember seeing him in anything (I didn't see any of the films mentioned save for Wilde, and I must have seen that before I knew who he was), so I can't comment on his ability.

Cumberbatch seems pretty able from what I've seen (although I bored of Sherlock last series, because I found the writing and direction extremely irritating). I would say that the media scrum over his Hamlet suggests he very much *isn't* seen as a second rate actor.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes, it was worth saying twice.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, it was worth saying twice.

and that's why i 'liked' each of them, in a different way.

 

[danny la rouge]

i think this points to the paucity of your argument, if it does not stand up to scrutiny: and on this being observed rather than strengthen your point you resort to swearing. and - what's worse - unimaginative swearing, too.

 

[Sea Star]

I struggle to remember any of his roles tbh....

He was OK in AI and less good in Gattaca - and that's about it for me.

 

[hot air baboon]

....can we agree to agree on Charlie Sheen in the Three Musketeers.....?

I very much enjoyed 'March or Die,' personally.

..can't remember that much about it...it could well be a lost classic.....

 

[Gromit]

Great film. Great Book.

I own both.

People fault Caine for appearing in so much shit but i applaude him. His self confessed career plan has been don't turn anything down and don't get snooty on fees.
Its been the secret of his long career instead of being one of these stars who are briefly massive and then the studios lose interest because they asked too much money, get choosy with the projects and after a while of not making a film for these reasons are forgotten for the next big thing.

 

[Bakunin]

....can we agree to agree on Charlie Sheen in the Three Musketeers.....?



..can't remember that much about it...it could well be a lost classic.....

'Tis lost no longer:

http://putlocker.is/watch-march-or-die-online-free-putlocker.html

 

[Spymaster]

'Tis lost no longer:

http://putlocker.is/watch-march-or-die-online-free-putlocker.html

What is movixhub and will it kill my computer if I download/enable it?

 

[DexterTCN]

What is movixhub and will it kill my computer if I download/enable it?

Use adblocker plus.

 

[Gingerman]

Possibly the worst film Caine appeared in, he plays a middle aged man letching after his best friend's 16 yr old daughter, film remembered now for featuring a young Demi Moore in her debut.....

 

[Gingerman]

2 excellent Connery films......

 

[Spymaster]

Use adblocker plus.

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