Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I don't really play games for the story. I have the initial trilogy (free) too but they all look pretty old... Too much choice of game & too little time.
The Last Of Us 2
- Thread starter DexterTCN
- Start date
I don't really play games for the story. I have the initial trilogy (free) too but they all look pretty old... Too much choice of game & too little time.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I like the Uncharted games. Lots of action and some great set pieces. I often skip story cutscenes to get on with the killing, but the story was compelling enough for me to keep watching. Sometimes a little too much climbing but that’s a small complaint as the scenery is so spectacular
ruffneck23
front left
just bought it , installing it now , waiting til it gets a bit cooler to start.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
The game has now been out long enough for comment.
Do not read this opinion if you are or are intending to play the game, it has a MAJOR spoiler. Do NOT read this if you are or intend to play TLOU2.
Do not read this opinion if you are or are intending to play the game, it has a MAJOR spoiler. Do NOT read this if you are or intend to play TLOU2.
I will not be playing or supporting this game. Some woke cunt (Druchman) has taken two of my favourite characters ever and shit on them. The trailers lied, they showed an older Joel talking to Ellie but it isn't in the game because he's dead very early on. You are forced to befriend a dog then kill it...wtf is that about. You killl a pregnant woman, Ellie is the baddy. I think not. The start of the game is very open but as soon as something happens it basically becomes totally linear with no option to make morally different choices.
Around 70% of the development staff at Naughty Dog left the company and were forced to sign NDAs over the development of this game
Around 70% of the development staff at Naughty Dog left the company and were forced to sign NDAs over the development of this game
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
Wow.
I'm exhausted. That final fight scene ... I just wanted it to stop, wanted it not to have happened, wanted Ellie to have made different choices, but it was so inevitable, so unavoidable. Just amazing. Fucking amazing game.
Edited to add: her face whilst trying to drown Abby. Fucking hell.
DexterTCN, it's just not as simple as Ellie is the baddie, nothing like that simple.
Also, one of the things you mention simply doesn't happen, so not sure where you're getting your info from.
You'd have to work very hard to persuade me that the game was anything other than incredible. Those characters you love? They were never that lovable in the first place. Well, they are, but only from one perspective and this game forces you to see the other perspective. It's so, so much more complicated than you make it sound.
Edited to add: her face whilst trying to drown Abby. Fucking hell.
DexterTCN, it's just not as simple as Ellie is the baddie, nothing like that simple.
Also, one of the things you mention simply doesn't happen, so not sure where you're getting your info from.
You'd have to work very hard to persuade me that the game was anything other than incredible. Those characters you love? They were never that lovable in the first place. Well, they are, but only from one perspective and this game forces you to see the other perspective. It's so, so much more complicated than you make it sound.
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Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
After reading stuff on this and other forums about the story (and people getting very annoyed about the direction of it), I'm still surprised people get that attached to video game characters. To me, they really are just a pile of pixels. Despite being in control of them, I'm not sure I'll ever care about a game character in the same way as I do characters in books, films, etc. Maybe I'm odd... I guess I see games as more a series of tests than stories, despite a drive now to deeper analyse games.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I think the backlash is from people who don’t understand what it’s trying to do.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
There's an interesting article in The Guardian that makes me want to play it a bit, but then I know my ultimate reaction would probably just be boredom and frustration at the amount of sneaking and getting killed over and over again. 
www.theguardian.com
The Last of Us Part 2 is a horror game and that's why it hurts
Its bloody tragedies have outraged some players but this sequel draws unashamedly on heritage horror films
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
It varies hugely for me depending on the game, it's just that as I get older I tend more towards games that are very heavily story driven, which are just so much more rewarding when you invest in the characters.
I played COD MW 1 and 2 Remastered and fucking loved them both, having missed them the first time round. They are exciting, breathless, run and gun fests with loads of clever features that make them really stand out. 2 was so good I played right back through it again and then cherry picked missions until The Last of Us 2 arrived. It was brilliant. Did I give a fuck about any of the characters? Of course not.
I've played a lot - and I mean a LOT - of the Long Dark in Survival mode. It is exactly a series of tests to be passed - or not, then permadeath and you have to start a wholly new game. There are no characters at all, just you, trying to beat the game. It's frigging awesome.
But this, this game demands that you bother with the characters. There's really no point if you don't.
It's like comparing some sort of Jack Ryan bollocks (never read one, just to be clear), with Misery by Stephen King, with, oh, I don't know, David Copperfield. Sure, they're all books but are they in any way comparable, really? Ones an action romp designed to be enjoyed for the good guys winning, one is an analysis of fame and hero worship with some truly horrific moments, and the other one is whatever the fuck that is about.
My long winded point is treating all games as a series of tests is to utterly, utterly miss the point of many games ... like criticising David Copperfield for there not being enough machine guns.
The Last of Us 2 is not really like anything I've played before. I haven't thought about a game so much afterwards since Spec Ops: The Line I reckon. I'm really avoiding saying too much and I can't be arsed doing more spoilers, but once again Johnny, if all you got from the first one is "too much sneaking around" then you massively missed the point and 2 won't do it for you either.
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
There's an interesting article in The Guardian that makes me want to play it a bit, but then I know my ultimate reaction would probably just be boredom and frustration at the amount of sneaking and getting killed over and over again.
The Last of Us Part 2 is a horror game and that's why it hurts
Its bloody tragedies have outraged some players but this sequel draws unashamedly on heritage horror films
That's a great review. SPOILERS though, before anyone else starts reading it.
All the gamergate type wankers though are just focusing on how they've been BETRAYED or some such bollocks. Just fuck them. I'm so bored of bigoted stupid wankers who can't think their way past their own inadequacy.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
The Guardian will probably run an article on this once a week until the end of time.
www.theguardian.com
Not really convinced, though. I'd be more interested to see the reaction if a mainly male audience was forced to play as a gay man.
The Last of Us Part II: the blockbuster game breaking LGBTQ+ barriers
The bestselling sequel features a gay central character, challenging the last taboo for representation in gaming
Not really convinced, though. I'd be more interested to see the reaction if a mainly male audience was forced to play as a gay man.
tommers
Busta Rhymes is an unstoppable movement
That would be interesting. I saw some of the reaction to one of the women in this being slightly more muscled than a normal videogame character.
Even writing that feels weird but people seemed to get upset about it.
DexterTCN
Troy and Abed in the morning
That's a ridiculous statement.
The first game was. specifically, about Joel and Ellie. The trailers deliberately lied about the game and implied further development of those characters. What do we get?
Don't read this if you're going to play the game or are playing it.
One is killed because he did something we agreed with doing in the first game and the other loses her partner and her kid and is the now the baddy...and plot holes...but never mind she can still play the guitar...oh no...they took her fucking fingers off. the end. What's bigoted about that? That's not gamergate. This game hates those characters and dressing it up as bigotry (in a fucking game) is pathetic and intensely close-minded.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Have you played it then? It sounds great to me. Containing all the usual post-apocalyptic tropes on morality, violence and how survival makes us all monsters. Ticks a lot of boxes. Will have to start the first one again.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
In only vaguely related news, I started Uncharted 4 last night and am getting dull vibes from it - as OU said, too much climbing. The new Tomb Raider games are much more fun. Maybe I need to get a bit further in, but for me the tension between wannabe cinema and traditional game elements in the Naughty Dog games I've played (all two of them) is unsatisfying.
tommers
Busta Rhymes is an unstoppable movement
Mate they killed Aerith in FFVII. That's when i realised these monsters are capable of anything.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Tbf, I think we ought to give people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they just don't like the story direction rather than jumping to the worst conclusions about the motivations behind their complaints. But the sort of plot development being discussed isn't unusual if you think of films/TV shows in that genre.
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
I was specifically meaning all the complaints about the sexuality and gender of characters. People can dislike the direction the game took, but that's not what the most upset people are upset about.
See above
There's plenty of development of Joel and Ellie, but it's done in flashbacks, where Joel is concerned.
He's killed because the daughter of the doctor that he killed wanted her revenge.
That doctor who was going to create a cure for humanity.
If you finished the first game going "yeah, save Ellie, that's the right thing to do" and no trace of "er, but the human race?" then I'd say that's an odd response to it.
She's not the "baddy". To reduce this whole game to "it makes Ellie the baddy" is utterly childish. The entire game is about seeing things from different perspectives and how understanding someone else's position can change how you think. When it first forces you to play as Abby, I was "what? No! I don't want to play as her, I want revenge!" ... but then you play as her for a long time and you understand her .. and end up rooting for her. The same with the Scars ... sure, they're a fucked up cult with rigid rules ... but they've got kids, they're proud of those kids achievements, they're trying to live in the new world on its' own terms, not just scavange off the old world ... and as the game goes on you start to see all the shades of grey, the complexity that gives the lie to the simplicity of a revenge story.
This game does not hate those two characters. (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Joel) They are complicated from the off, both damaged and not at all straighforward. Joel saves Ellie at least in part - if not entirely - because he couldn't save his own daughter. He's happy to murder a bunch of medical staff to do it and say "fuck you" to the whole of humanity. But no, you think he's the good guy.
This game has complex characters with shifting motivations who interact in complicated ways. The final fight scene is hard precisely because you identify with both of the characters (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Abby). I stopped mashing the button when Ellie started to stab Abby because I wanted out I wanted them both to survive, I didn't want it to be happening. It was literally watching two people that I like beating the shit out of each other, it was visceral, horrible.
That's quite a response to elicit using a game.
Hence why I think it's incredible.
You're absolutely entitled to not like the direction they took. However, given that you haven't and apparently won't play the game, I'm really not sure why you're posting. You've made your mind up.
Not sure what you mean about "dressing it up as bigotry". If you're referring to my statement about the gamergate wankers, again, I was specifically meaning all the complaints about the sexuality and gender of characters.
He's killed because the daughter of the doctor that he killed wanted her revenge.
That doctor who was going to create a cure for humanity.
If you finished the first game going "yeah, save Ellie, that's the right thing to do" and no trace of "er, but the human race?" then I'd say that's an odd response to it.
She's not the "baddy". To reduce this whole game to "it makes Ellie the baddy" is utterly childish. The entire game is about seeing things from different perspectives and how understanding someone else's position can change how you think. When it first forces you to play as Abby, I was "what? No! I don't want to play as her, I want revenge!" ... but then you play as her for a long time and you understand her .. and end up rooting for her. The same with the Scars ... sure, they're a fucked up cult with rigid rules ... but they've got kids, they're proud of those kids achievements, they're trying to live in the new world on its' own terms, not just scavange off the old world ... and as the game goes on you start to see all the shades of grey, the complexity that gives the lie to the simplicity of a revenge story.
This game does not hate those two characters. (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Joel) They are complicated from the off, both damaged and not at all straighforward. Joel saves Ellie at least in part - if not entirely - because he couldn't save his own daughter. He's happy to murder a bunch of medical staff to do it and say "fuck you" to the whole of humanity. But no, you think he's the good guy.
This game has complex characters with shifting motivations who interact in complicated ways. The final fight scene is hard precisely because you identify with both of the characters (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Abby). I stopped mashing the button when Ellie started to stab Abby because I wanted out I wanted them both to survive, I didn't want it to be happening. It was literally watching two people that I like beating the shit out of each other, it was visceral, horrible.
That's quite a response to elicit using a game.
Hence why I think it's incredible.
You're absolutely entitled to not like the direction they took. However, given that you haven't and apparently won't play the game, I'm really not sure why you're posting. You've made your mind up.
Not sure what you mean about "dressing it up as bigotry". If you're referring to my statement about the gamergate wankers, again, I was specifically meaning all the complaints about the sexuality and gender of characters.
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fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
Another thing I loved (I'm assuming it was deliberate, but if not, it still worked!) was
that the faction responsible for Joel's death are mostly a bit more "regular" looking. I literally found myself saying "well fuck, a bunch of characters that look like people!"
Everyone on Ellie's "side" is fairly good looking. Most on Abby's "side" aren't.
Everyone on Ellie's "side" is fairly good looking. Most on Abby's "side" aren't.
not-bono-ever
meh
yeh but PS only :-(
fucthest8
Cool people die horrible, preventable deaths.
Well, it;'s only my experience of it, clearly lots of people disagree. FYI I'm the kind of person who tries to immerse themselves in things and suspend disbelief as much as possible in favour of enjoying the film/book/game ... I even had a go at the Tom Cruise version of War of the Worlds, right up until the fortuitous handgrenades up the alien's arse bit, then even I had to go "nope, I tried, this is garbage"
ruffneck23
front left
I'm enjoying it, its brutal but not coming back here til its finished , although I wasnt too keen on the first one , Im enjoying this loads but can only play a couple of hours at a time...
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
I know you said you're not coming back to this thread for a while, but would be interested to know in what ways this improves on the first.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Quite enjoying Uncharted 4 tonight! 
neonwilderness
What would Badgers do?
I’m a couple of hours in (haven’t read any spoilers yet) and
Yes, IMO. I’ve only just started 2 so I’m mostly basing this on the first game, but it’s the only game when I’ve been properly invested in the characters. There are a lot of cut scenes, but just watching it wouldn’t be the same.
