The Canterbury scene thread

[ska invita]

i know nothing

Wiki
The Canterbury scene (or Canterbury sound) was a musical scene centred around the city of Canterbury, Kent, England during the late 1960s and early 1970s.[1] Associated with progressive rock,[2] the term describes a loosely-defined, improvisational style that blended elements of jazz, rock, and psychedelia.[1]

These musicians played together in numerous bands, with ever-changing and overlapping personnel, creating some similarities in their musical output. Many prominent British avant-garde or fusion musicians began their career in Canterbury bands, including Hugh Hopper, Steve Hillage, Dave Stewart (the keyboardist), Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Daevid Allen, and Mike Ratledge.[3][4] Over the years, with outside musicians joining Canterbury bands, and new bands all over the world adopting a 'Canterbury sound', the term has come to describe the musical style rather than a regional group of musicians.


Lots more on that wiki Canterbury scene - Wikipedia

Sooo....starting chronoloigcally, where to start?
I guess this explains it

The scene had one main root in the Wilde Flowers, a band formed in 1964 which at various times was home to most of the founding musicians of both Soft Machine and Caravan, which in turn provided the musicians for several later bands. The genesis of the 'Canterbury Sound' may, in part, be traced back to 1960, when 22-year-old Australian beatnik Daevid Allen lodged at 15-year-old Robert Wyatt's parents' guest-house in Lydden, ten miles to the south of Canterbury. Allen brought with him an extensive collection of jazz records, a different lifestyle, and the jazz drummer George Niedorf who later taught Wyatt the drums. In 1963, Wyatt, Allen and Hugh Hopper formed the Daevid Allen Trio (in London) which metamorphosed into the Wilde Flowers the following year 1964 when Allen left for France. Wyatt, Allen, Kevin Ayers (from the Wilde Flowers) and Mike Ratledge (who had played on occasion with the Daevid Allen Trio) formed Soft Machine two years later in 1966.

The Wilde Flowers survived, however, led by Pye Hastings – often joined by his brother Jimmy Hastings who guested with the Wilde Flowers and Caravan when not busy with his other, jazz, engagements. From this second Wilde Flowers incarnation was born the band Caravan with an initial line up of Pye Hastings (vocals, lead guitar), Richard Sinclair (bass), Dave Sinclair (keyboards) and Richard Coughlan (drums). Although enjoying success in the UK, holding their own with respectable album sales, they really came into their own in mainland Europe, particularly France, the Netherlands and Germany, where they achieved star status in the 1970s and played some of those countries' largest and most prestigious venues. They went quiet during the 1980s, but Caravan reappeared, still led by Hastings, in the 1990s and were gigging into the 2000s, at home and abroad, including in the US.

Other key early bands were Delivery and Egg, whose members blended into the Canterbury scene in the early 1970s. For example, guitarist Phil Miller of Delivery went on to found Matching Mole with Robert Wyatt, and Hatfield and the North with keyboardist Dave Stewart of Egg. Both were later in National Health while guitarist Steve Hillage, who dropped out of a degree course at the University of Kent at Canterbury, had worked with the members of Egg in a previous band, Uriel (recorded as Arzachel), and was later in Gong with Daevid Allen.

The Canterbury scene is known for having a set of musicians who often rotated into different Canterbury bands. Bassist/vocalist Richard Sinclair, for example, was at different points of his career, in the Wilde Flowers, Camel, Caravan, Hatfield and the North and, briefly, Gilgamesh; he also worked with National Health. His cousin keyboardist Dave Sinclair was in Caravan, Camel, Matching Mole and, briefly, Hatfield and the North. Drummer/vocalist Robert Wyatt was a member of the Wilde Flowers, Soft Machine, Matching Mole, and also did work as a solo artist. The late drummer Pip Pyle was in Delivery, Gong, Hatfield and the North, National Health, Soft Heap and In Cahoots. Bassist Hugh Hopper was in Soft Machine, Isotope, Soft Heap, In Cahoots and, with Pyle and Allen, Brainville, as well as doing numerous of his own group and solo projects and working with non-Canterbury bands. Multi-instrumentalist Mike Oldfield started his professional career in bassist/guitarist/vocalist Kevin Ayers' band 'The Whole World' in 1970 as the bassist and lead guitarist; some musicians of the Canterbury scene contributed to Oldfield's mid-1970s solo output, such as bassoon and oboe player Lindsay Cooper (on Hergest Ridge) and guitarist Steve Hillage, keyboardist Mike Ratledge and multi-instrumentalist Fred Frith (in a 1974 BBC live performance of extracts from Tubular Bells).

Other individuals peripheral to the scene but with connections include Bill Bruford (ex-Yes, briefly drummed in Gong and National Health and employed Dave Stewart in his late 1970s band, Bruford), guitarist Allan Holdsworth (who worked with Soft Machine, Gong in their jazz rock period, and the band, Bruford, which played a style of jazz fusion heavily influenced by Canterbury scene artists) and guitarist Andy Summers (who was briefly a member of Soft Machine, and also worked separately with Kevin Ayers). Poet, painter, singer Lady June has been regarded an "honorary member" of the Canterbury scene for having performed and recorded with some of the members, and being a "landlady" to many in her flat in Maida Vale, London.[7][8]

Ye Wilde FLowers then, any good?
And they morphed into Soft Machine and Caravan?

 

[Knotted]

OK then by popular request here it goes. The first thing to understand about the Canterbury scene is that there wasn't a Canterbury scene. It is all about the mid-60's band the Wilde Flowers and various splits and recombinations from that band plus others from different places who sound a bit like Caravan.

The Wilde Flowers were a pop group who had been listening to Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, Art Blakey and all these classic (then current) jazz acts. This might be their best known song.


That's Robert Wyatt, Richard Sinclair, Brian Hopper, Hugh Hopper and Kevin Ayers. All go on to do lots of other things.

 

[belboid]

Never heard Wilde Flowers (or Delivery), I expect there to be a reasonable good reason for that.

The family tree that comes with the Softs Triple Echo is a thing to behold

 

[belboid]

hmm, I'll see if I can find/make a more readable version

 

[Knotted]

I don't know the ins and outs of how this happened but the Wilde Flowers split and recruited others to form two new bands - Caravan and Soft Machine. Caravan were headed by David Sinclair's brother Richard on bass and vocals and along with David Sinclair on keyboards were Pye Hastings on guitar and Richard Coughlan on drums (I think that's the original line-up, I'm going off memory here). They refined the Wilde Flowers sound and defined the idiosyncratic "Canterbury" sound. It's dreamy, poppy, jazzy, quite complex but not overly so and with a very "English" self-depricating wimisical humour.

From their first album just to give you a taste of early Caravan. However it's their second and third albums that are the real classics.

 

[killer b]

editor can you merge this with Ska's canterbury scene thread please!

 

[belboid]

Here's a playlist of (probably) everything by the Wilde Flowers. Sounds okay, it has some of the qualities that they then really developed more interestingly a year or two later

 

[Knotted]

Meanwhile the other half of the Wilde Flowers teamed up with the older Daevid Allen (of Gong fame) to form the Soft Machine. So that's Allen on guitar and vocals, Wyatt on drums and vocals, Ayers on bass and vocals and Mike Ratledge on keys. The archival Jet Propelled Photographs album is the place to go for this earliest incarnation of Soft Machine.


As you can tell the level of energy from the Soft Machine was considerably higher.

 

[ska invita]

Belboid reckons there arent that many bands to talk about so Ive updated the thread title accordingly for any further related acts


Nothing to do with the thread, but googling Canterbury found this


currently on display in Canterbury, the worlds largest neon tapestry
maybe post lockdown...

 

[Knotted]

Daevid Allen took the name Soft Machine from the William Burroughs novel. Allen was a bit of a beatnik and knew Burroughs. Unfortunately he got stranded in France during the 1968 protests and went on to form Gong. Gong aren't usually considered to be Canterbury, though I'm not entirely sure why. But anyway here's a bit of Gong fpor those who don't know them:

 

[Knotted]

Anyway back to Caravan. This opening track from their second album nails it.


And that's what people who talk about "Canterbury" are really talking about.

I'm not going through all the bazillion line up changes of Soft Machine before tea so I'm leaving it here.

 

[Sprocket.]

Steve Hillage made his mark on the Canterbury Scene too, teaming up with David Stewart to form Khan.

 

[two sheds]

I know naathing of Canterbury scene apart from a woman came round to my flat in must have been '72 and said 'ooo you've got Canterbury scene while looking at this:

 

[Knotted]

My definition of Canterbury - either related to the Wilde Flowers or sounds a bit like Caravan or early Soft Machine.

In the latter camp we have the French band Moving Gelatine Plate:

 

[Knotted]

I know naathing of Canterbury scene apart from a woman came round to my flat in must have been '72 and said 'ooo you've got Canterbury scene while looking at this:

Excellent choice, but they were south Londoners two of whom were later involved with Canterbury bands. Uriel/Egg/Arzachel are strictly speaking not Canterbury.

 

[two sheds]

And this (although I'm less sure of this I've always thought of it as experimental 70s jazz type stuff)



Dave Arbus on electric violin

 

[Knotted]

And then so on and so forth with Matching Mole, Hatfield and the North, National Health, Soft Heap, Gilgamesh and others I can't think of at the minute. All short lived but excellent formations. I'll find some choice bits later. Plus solo albums from Kevin Ayers, Brian Hopper, Hugh Hopper, Pye Hastings, Robert Wyatt and others. Thinking about it, it's amazing how much of this stuff is so good. All worth checking.

It all ends with Dave Stewart and Barbara Gaskin covering It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want To.

 

[belboid]

Here's Pete Frame's Family Tree for Soft Machine, which takes in most of the bands. I know it is almost impossible to read, but it is in the original; dead tree version too!

 

[Knotted]

Wow

 

[Knotted]

Oh yeah, there's a good Carol Grimes and Delivery album out there as well.

 

[two sheds]

Belboid reckons there arent that many bands to talk about so Ive updated the thread title accordingly for any further related acts


Nothing to do with the thread, but googling Canterbury found this


currently on display in Canterbury, the worlds largest neon tapestry
maybe post lockdown...

Maidstone and .... the world

 

[Ground Elder]

Here's Pete Frame's Family Tree for Soft Machine, which takes in most of the bands. I know it is almost impossible to read, but it is in the original; dead tree version too!

Just remembered a neatly folded copy of this tucked in the sleeve of my In The Land of Grey and Pink

 

[Knotted]

Carol Grimes and Delivery for the bluesy side of Canterbury:

 

[Knotted]

Perversely not everything from Canterbury in the late 60's/70's is Canterbury. The folksters Spirogyra are not usually considered to be Canterbury. Go figure. They were pretty good though.

 

[belboid]

Just remembered a neatly folded copy of this tucked in the sleeve of my In The Land of Grey and Pink

It should be in Triple Echo!

 

[Knotted]

From the first Soft Machine album. (After Daevid Allen's departure). Hold onto your hats.

 

[belboid]

I know they’re on the list as being key participants, but I can never really accept Gong as part of the Canterbury Scene. Lots of band members and some musical similarities but they’re a while different beast in reality. So, even if you or hate Gong, you shouldn’t let that put you off the rest of it.

 

[Knotted]

The Soft Machine toured with the Jimi Hendrix experience in 1968 (I think). Kevin Ayers couldn't handle the strain and left the band and was replaced by the roady Hugh Hopper. Ayers went on to release four extraordinary albums and several other good later ones.

Here's a choice pick:

 

[ska invita]

.

 

[Knotted]

Next casualty from Soft Machine was Robert Wyatt (1971?), who objected to the increasingly jazz oriented direction of the band and who still wanted to do songs. He formed the band Matching Mole (an anglo-french pun on Soft Machine). Two albums, the first has a couple of daft but great wimisical songs followed by various improsations. The second album refines a more dense sound and expresses Wyatt's new found Communist leanings. But here's a good bit of live footage: