TfL funding crisis

[Cerv]

had a glossy "vote for Sean Bailey" leaflet through the door this morning blaming Khan for the bailout & how we'll be paying for it.
blimey that was quick off the mark if the funding was only agreed on Friday. must have had it ready to go in advance.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Crossrail 2 off the cards as well but then I can't see it being needed after the WFH revolution this year.
It was a tricky sell anyway after the Crossrail project planning disaster. Looking to 2022 now for opening can you believe it?

 

[teuchter]

Crossrail 2 is more "suspended" than entirely off the cards.

Crossrail 2 talks continue despite TfL struggles | New Civil Engineer

The report - Investment to get London and the UK moving again - says that while large projects from the Mayor's Transport Strategy like Crossrail 2 and

www.newcivilengineer.com

 

[ska invita]

as someone who lives just south of the south circ and whose entire social life is just inside the south circ (friends, partner, activities) this proposal basically kills the majority of my driving off
and there will be lots of people who similarly live in communities around the north and south circ who would effectively have their communities cut in half, whether its shopping, school and whatever other reasons people use cars for
if it happens I'll take it on the chin (basically travel less), but theres no way its not going to have a massive impact on people who live near the border, some positive but also negative....theres a massive difference between central london and working class communities around the ring roads.
why not just extend the zone to the LEZ outer london zone and charge rich home counties people for the privilege to come in to london? actually there would be less entry points i expect than coming off the thousands of residential streets that come off the north and especially south ciric

 

[teuchter]

this proposal basically kills the majority of my driving off

That's kind of the idea ... however, it's now confirmed that it's not going to happen.

 

[ska invita]

That's kind of the idea ... however, it's now confirmed that it's not going to happen.

...Till March, when finding is reviewed again.

No the idea is to raise revenue .

Its a burden on the suburban (relative) poor though. Id rather it was a burden on the home counties.

But yeah fuck it, quadruple everyone's road tax and fund local public transport with it... what's all this zone nonsense

I've been following the story and Tory London MPs were strongly against it.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Compared to what I've seen about cycling and public transport in Paris or elsewhere this is just absolutely savage.

 

[ska invita]

anyone know what the status is of the night east london line service?
I thought it was running but got stranded the other night and it took 3 hours to get home with many buses packed like sardines (covid nightmare), so full couldnt even get on for an hour, ended up walking

 

[Cerv]

anyone know what the status is of the night east london line service?
I thought it was running but got stranded the other night and it took 3 hours to get home with many buses packed like sardines (covid nightmare), so full couldnt even get on for an hour, ended up walking

re-starts from Friday 17/12

Night Overground returns next month

Night Overground returns next month

tfl.gov.uk

 

[stdP]

An interesting article from Ian Visits:

London’s transport faces a future of “managed decline”

TfL is warning that without a solid long term funding agreement from the government, it will be forced to start cutting services within months and look at running the public transport network under a programme of

www.ianvisits.co.uk

The current government funding dries up on the 11th of december and TfL are saying:

TfL’s previous financial plan published at the start of this year forecast that they would be able to build back to operational financial sustainability by 2023/24, that is to be in a position where the day to day running costs are matched by income. That doesn’t allow for capital investments or maintenance works though. Assuming a small cut to bus services and other cost savings, TfL was expecting to be able to reduce the huge losses it’s making at the moment to around £500 million a year.

To put that £500 million into context, TfL spends around £7,000 million a year operating and maintaining the network, so balancing the budget amounts to cuts of around 14 per cent in TfL’s services.

TfL says that moving to “Managed Decline” would mean that only projects already underway, or those required to be compliant with safety and other statutory regulations would continue – meaning no new investment by TfL at all in the transport network.

Although existing commitments, such as new trains on the Piccadilly line and DLR would be delivered, the signalling upgrades needed on the Piccadilly line to deliver the capacity upgrade won’t happen. That means lots of new trains paid for, but no way of carrying the extra passengers needed to pay for them.

Also, considering the long lead time needed to deliver the project, no fresh orders today means no new services for London for the best part of a decade.

So the Bakerloo and Central line fleet replacement would be pushed back to the late 2030s /early 2040s, and Jubilee line replacement would not begin until the mid-2040s.

 

[Crispy]

Those Bakerloo trains are going to be absolutely ancient by the time they're replaced. 1972-2042 = 70 years in service.

 

[hash tag]

I see khan is distancing further himself from parliament
BBC News - Mayor and London Assembly set for City Hall move

Mayor and London Assembly set for City Hall move

The Greater London Authority will decamp to the Crystal in Newham next year to save money

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Those Bakerloo trains are going to be absolutely ancient by the time they're replaced. 1972-2042 = 70 years in service.

it's quite alarming, really - while i can remember the 1972 trains as among the newest on the underground, they are about the age now that the 1938 tube stock was when it retired...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why do so many Londoners own cars? It's pretty irritating. I moved house recently and the biggest challenge was where the removal van could actually be because cars just hog every possible parking space - at both ends of the journey.

 

[platinumsage]

Instead of shutting down the Bakerloo to save money why don't they just give up on Crossrail? Seems a bit silly to shut down a tube line that people actually use when instead you can shut down a line that no one uses.

 

[alex_]

Instead of shutting down the Bakerloo to save money why don't they just give up on Crossrail? Seems a bit silly to shut down a tube line that people actually use when instead you can shut down a line that no one uses.

I suspect the funding model for crossrail means that shutting it wouldn’t save much cash, and would mean no income.

For example - the crossrail trains are on a 20 year lease, which would still need to be paid.

I also suspect crossrail will be quite profitable

 

[Pickman's model]

Why do so many Londoners own cars? It's pretty irritating. I moved house recently and the biggest challenge was where the removal van could actually be because cars just hog every possible parking space - at both ends of the journey.

46% of London households have no cars

In tower Hamlets there's 0.14 cars per head, hackney 0.15, Islington 0.16, Southwark 0.19 and Lambeth 0.20

By contrast in Trafford it's 0.53

 

[andysays]

46% of London households have no cars

In tower Hamlets there's 0.14 cars per head, hackney 0.15, Islington 0.16, Southwark 0.19 and Lambeth 0.20

By contrast in Trafford it's 0.53

I can't be bothered to look up the figures, but I bet there's a significant difference between car ownership in inner and outer London boroughs.

I also wonder how many cars from outer London boroughs are driven into inner London boroughs every day.

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't be bothered to look up the figures, but I bet there's a significant difference between car ownership in inner and outer London boroughs.

I also wonder how many cars from outer London boroughs are driven into inner London boroughs every day.

i am sure teuchter can assist

 

[Artaxerxes]

“Managed decline”

Tube lines 'could be shut for days' as TfL black hole soars to £1,500,000,000

The government has not committed any extra funding past this Friday.

metro.co.uk

 

[Hollis]

Why do so many Londoners own cars? It's pretty irritating. I moved house recently and the biggest challenge was where the removal van could actually be because cars just hog every possible parking space - at both ends of the journey.

Interesting thread on twitter on the gendered nature of travel.



I'd like to see car journey's in London massively reduce, but its also worth reminding ourselves that there's a host of reasons that currently make 'active travel' and public transport difficult for some people to use.