Tao Te Ching - differing translations

[fractionMan]

They're so different. Like really different.

Take verse 38, the first on Te

Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted;
Closely held beliefs are not easily released;
So ritual enthralls generation after generation.

Harmony does not care for harmony, and so is naturally attained;
But ritual is intent upon harmony, and so can not attain it.

Harmony neither acts nor reasons;
Love acts, but without reason;
Justice acts to serve reason;
But ritual acts to enforce reason.

When the Way is lost, there remains harmony;
When harmony is lost, there remains love;
When love is lost, there remains justice;
But when justice is lost, there remains ritual.

Ritual is the end of compassion and honesty,
The beginning of confusion;
Belief is a colourful hope or fear,
The beginning of folly.

The sage goes by harmony, not by hope;
He dwells in the fruit, not the flower;
He accepts substance, and ignores abstraction.

The Master doesn't try to be powerful;
thus he is truly powerful.
The ordinary man keeps reaching for power;
thus he never has enough.

The Master does nothing,
yet he leaves nothing undone.
The ordinary man is always doing things,
yet many more are left to be done.

The kind man does something,
yet something remains undone.
The just man does something.
and leaves many things to be done.
The moral man does something,
and when no one responds
he rolls up his sleeves and uses force.

When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.

Therefore the Master concerns himself
with the depths and not the surface,
with the fruit and not the flower.
He has no will of his own.
He dwells in reality,
and lets all illusions go.
http://www.poetseers.org/the_poetseers/lao_tzu/tao_te_ching/index_html

http://www.poetseers.org/the_poetseers/lao_tzu/tao_te_ching/index_html

A truly good man is not aware of his goodness,
And is therefore good.
A foolish man tries to be good,
And is therefore not good.

A truly good man does nothing,
Yet nothing is left undone.
A foolish man is always doing,
Yet much remains to be done

When a truly kind man does something, he leaves nothing undone.
When a just man does something, he leaves a great deal to be done.
When a disciplinarian does something and no one responds,
He rolls up his sleeves in an attempt to enforce order

Therefore when Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is kindness.
When kindness is lost, there is justice.
When justice is lost, there is ritual.
Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of confusion.
Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of the Tao.
It is the beginning of folly.

Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real
and not what is on the surface,
On the fruit and not the flower,
Therefore accept the one and reject the other.

There's a whole bunch of them compared here:
http://wayist.org/ttc compared/chap38.htm

Anyway, I'm wondering if there's a book out there that sets several next to each other and discusses the differences and interpretations.

Anyone?

 

[Cm7]

Funny, 'cos I was just looking to buy a new book and wonder which version I should get.
I read the Stephen Mitchell's version when I was younger. Still have the copy.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R95FKZ32EF30

I'd look at what else the translators have published too and what their backgrounds are.
It's a tough one to compare and pick.

Best is to read it in Chinese

 

[fractionMan]

I think learning ancient chinese might be beyond me at the moment

Here's another modern translation (using the formal equivalence approach), from Taoism.net

High virtue is not virtuous
Therefore it has virtue
Low virtue never loses virtue
Therefore it has no virtue
High virtue takes no contrived action
And acts without agenda
Low virtue takes contrived action
And acts with agenda
High benevolence takes contrived action
And acts without agenda
High righteousness takes contrived action
And acts with agenda
High etiquette takes contrived action
And upon encountering no response
Uses arms to pull others

Therefore, the Tao is lost, and then virtue
Virtue is lost, and then benevolence
Benevolence is lost, and then righteousness
Righteousness is lost, and then etiquette
Those who have etiquette
are a thin shell of loyalty and sincerity
And the beginning of chaos
Those with foreknowledge
Are the flowers of the Tao
And the beginning of ignorance
Therefore the great person:
Abides in substance, and does not dwell on the thin shell
Abides in the real, and does not dwell on the flower
Thus they discard that and take this

 

[Cm7]

I'm actually looking for one which has both Chinese and English, side by side, so I can compare the text.
But so far, no luck.

Might have to do it manually with prints...

 

[bmd]

I was wondering about this and I've come to the conclusion that I'll go with the one that suits me best. I prefer the J. Legge-type style atm.

 

[fractionMan]

I'm actually looking for one which has both Chinese and English, side by side, so I can compare the text.
But so far, no luck.

Might have to do it manually with prints...

I saw one the other day. Can't remember which one now

Now I've found it I'm quite liking the derek lin one: http://www.taoism.net/ttc/complete.htm

 

[kyser_soze]

I think I might do a version of my own:

The Master doesn't try to be powerful;
thus he is truly powerful.

The cool person doesn't know they're cool
They just are
People who try to be cool,
Just aren't.

 

[fractionMan]