Stonehenge may have been first erected in Wales

[ringo]

Evidence of quarrying for Stonehenge’s bluestones is among the dramatic discoveries leading archaeologists to theorise that England’s greatest prehistoric monument may have first been erected in Wales.

It has long been known that the bluestones that form Stonehenge’s inner horseshoe came from the Preseli hills in Pembrokeshire, around 140 miles from Salisbury Plain.

Now archaeologists have discovered a series of recesses in the rocky outcrops of Carn Goedog and Craig Rhos-y-felin, to the north of those hills, that match Stonehenge’s bluestones in size and shape. They have also found similar stones that the prehistoric builders extracted but left behind, and “a loading bay” from where the huge stones could be dragged away.

Carbonised hazelnut shells and charcoal from the quarry workers’ campfires have been radiocarbon-dated to reveal when the stones would have been extracted.

Prof Mike Parker Pearson, director of the project and professor of British later prehistory at University College London (UCL), said the finds were “amazing”.

“We have dates of around 3400 BC for Craig Rhos-y-felin and 3200 BC for Carn Goedog, which is intriguing because the bluestones didn’t get put up at Stonehenge until around 2900 BC,” he said. “It could have taken those Neolithic stone-draggers nearly 500 years to get them to Stonehenge, but that’s pretty improbable in my view. It’s more likely that the stones were first used in a local monument, somewhere near the quarries, that was then dismantled and dragged off to Wiltshire.”

More: Stonehenge may have been first erected in Wales, evidence suggests

 

[fredfelt]

I liked this quote, from the story

“One of the latest theories is that Stonehenge is a monument of unification, bringing together people from across the many parts of Britain,”​

 

[editor]

Amazing stuff

 

[Pickman's model]

what i think they're getting at is there was a test assembly in wales before the stones were despatched to their intended destination.

 

[bi0boy]

what i think they're getting at is there was a test assembly in wales before the stones were despatched to their intended destination.

For 500 years? That's some serious long term planning. Or maybe the bible is true they did live for hundreds of years back then.

 

[Pickman's model]

For 500 years? That's some serious long term planning. Or maybe the bible is true they did live for hundreds of years back then.

the couriers let them down. so the stones stayed where they were for longer than anticipated

 

[skyscraper101]

Probably Citylink.

 

[Gromit]

I liked this quote, from the story

“One of the latest theories is that Stonehenge is a monument of unification, bringing together people from across the many parts of Britain,”​

More likely the English fucking nicked it.

First our henges, then our coal, these days our water.

 

[mauvais]

More likely the English fucking nicked it.

First our henges, then our coal, these days our water.

It's not our fault that you couldn't maintain your erection.

 

[existentialist]

More likely the English fucking nicked it.

First our henges, then our coal, these days our water.

England is welcome to as much of the water is it can carry, as far as I am concerned - it's not as if we don't have enough to spare. So long as they don't drown any more Welsh villages to get it, it's fine by me...

 

[SpookyFrank]

*Welsh accent*

And we discovered America too you know, but that was rubbish as well so we let someone else have it.

 

[Belushi]

And we discovered America too you know, but that was rubbish as well so we let someone else have it.

Apart from the best bit, Patagonia :thumbs :

 

[existentialist]

*Welsh accent*

And we discovered America too you know, but that was rubbish as well so we let someone else have it.

Welsh people saying "Rub-bish" is always nice. Better than them saying "sbwriel", anyway

 

[JimW]

They converted it from a 35th century BC windmill.

 

[Artaxerxes]

the couriers let them down. so the stones stayed where they were for longer than anticipated

Took em 500 years to find the red card (in the end they just invaded the sorting office and stole the bloody things, worked out quicker)

 

[Pickman's model]

Took em 500 years to invent the red card (in the end they just invaded the sorting office and stole the bloody things, worked out quicker)

ftfy

 

[Artaxerxes]

ftfy

The post office is eternal

 

[Pickman's model]

The post office is eternal

the fucking queues are, anyway

 

[Duncan2]

If/when the archaeologists pinpoint the spot where the bluestones first stood the Welsh should be invited to fetch them back.No tracked vehicles could be allowed on Salisbury Plain it might provide the subject-matter of an important Documentary.

 

[existentialist]

If/when the archaeologists pinpoint the spot where the bluestones first stood the Welsh should be invited to fetch them back.No tracked vehicles could be allowed on Salisbury Plain it might provide the subject-matter of an important Documentary.

Nonono, if the customer has an issue with the goods, then they must be returned to the store at his or her own expense.

ETA: and did Sir buy an extended warranty? No, I don't believe he did. And it's well out of warranty.

 

[Anudder Oik]

I liked this quote, from the story

“One of the latest theories is that Stonehenge is a monument of unification, bringing together people from across the many parts of Britain,”​

Is there anything in the history of the british isles to support this "unification" theory?

It is much more likely, imo, to have been taken from it's original site in Wales as a trophy after some form of conquest. The possession of such a thing would have meant power.

 

[DotCommunist]

Is there anything in the history of the british isles to support this "unification" theory?

It is much more likely, imo, to have been taken from it's original site in Wales as a trophy after some form of conquest. The possession of such a thing would have meant power.

it was the centrepiece of a huge religious/ceremonial landscape and vast network of various stone age sites still be investigated today. Conquest seems unlikely

 

[Anudder Oik]

it was the centrepiece of a huge religious/ceremonial landscape and vast network of various stone age sites still be investigated today. Conquest seems unlikely

And this network of stones would have served to curtail conflict and unite tribes over vast tracts of territory? Did the network of churches and monasteries from the roman era onwards produce a similar unity?

If there was peace and unity why so many hill forts?

 

[Anudder Oik]

So, all this lot and their ancestors, who were all armed to the teeth, weren't at each others throats back in the day?

Native Tribes of Britain

This map shows the approximate location of the major tribes who lived in Britain at the time of the Roman Conquest of Britain in the First Century AD. The sole source for the existence and location of these tribes are Roman writers who visited Britain.

One of the best observers of the tribes of Celtic Britain was Tacitus who wrote on historical events in Britain. Another was a Roman geographer called Ptolemy who wrote a description of Britain, listing the names of the many British tribes.

• 01: Caledones
• 02: Taexali
• 03: Carvetii
• 04: Venicones
• 05: Epidii
• 06: Damnonii
• 07: Novantae

• 08: Selgovae
• 09: Votadini
• 10: Brigantes
• 11: Parisi
• 12: Cornovii
• 13: Deceangli
• 14: Ordovices

• 15: Corieltauvi
• 16: Iceni
• 17: Demetae
• 18: Catuvellauni
• 19: Silures
• 20: Dubunni
• 21: Dumnonii

• 22: Durotriges
• 23: Belgae
• 24: Atrebates
• 25: Regni
• 26: Cantiaci
• 27: Trinovantes

 

[DotCommunist]

And this network of stones would have served to curtail conflict and unite tribes over vast tracts of territory? Did the network of churches and monasteries from the roman era onwards produce a similar unity?

you can't make the comparison. We have what we know of the early christian kingdoms etc.

we know little about things much further back. Thing is, moving those stones that using pre-axle technology is an undertaking that is going to require a lot of co-operation. Certainly I don't assume it was all kumbaya back then but evidence for the war of conquest isn't there. They didn't even practise war as the romans taught people to do or die. Cattle raiding, singl combats, summer wars nd so on.

 

[DotCommunist]

So, all this lot and their ancestors, who were all armed to the teeth, weren't at each others throats back in the day?

Native Tribes of Britain

This map shows the approximate location of the major tribes who lived in Britain at the time of the Roman Conquest of Britain in the First Century AD. The sole source for the existence and location of these tribes are Roman writers who visited Britain.

One of the best observers of the tribes of Celtic Britain was Tacitus who wrote on historical events in Britain. Another was a Roman geographer called Ptolemy who wrote a description of Britain, listing the names of the many British tribes.

• 01: Caledones
• 02: Taexali
• 03: Carvetii
• 04: Venicones
• 05: Epidii
• 06: Damnonii
• 07: Novantae

• 08: Selgovae
• 09: Votadini
• 10: Brigantes
• 11: Parisi
• 12: Cornovii
• 13: Deceangli
• 14: Ordovices

• 15: Corieltauvi
• 16: Iceni
• 17: Demetae
• 18: Catuvellauni
• 19: Silures
• 20: Dubunni
• 21: Dumnonii

• 22: Durotriges
• 23: Belgae
• 24: Atrebates
• 25: Regni
• 26: Cantiaci
• 27: Trinovantes

thats the iron age. You don't understand how old the stones are do you? They predate the beaker people.

you are about...ooh 2 and a half thousand years out

 

[butchersapron]

So, all this lot and their ancestors, who were all armed to the teeth, weren't at each others throats back in the day?

Native Tribes of Britain

This map shows the approximate location of the major tribes who lived in Britain at the time of the Roman Conquest of Britain in the First Century AD. The sole source for the existence and location of these tribes are Roman writers who visited Britain.

One of the best observers of the tribes of Celtic Britain was Tacitus who wrote on historical events in Britain. Another was a Roman geographer called Ptolemy who wrote a description of Britain, listing the names of the many British tribes.

• 01: Caledones
• 02: Taexali
• 03: Carvetii
• 04: Venicones
• 05: Epidii
• 06: Damnonii
• 07: Novantae

• 08: Selgovae
• 09: Votadini
• 10: Brigantes
• 11: Parisi
• 12: Cornovii
• 13: Deceangli
• 14: Ordovices

• 15: Corieltauvi
• 16: Iceni
• 17: Demetae
• 18: Catuvellauni
• 19: Silures
• 20: Dubunni
• 21: Dumnonii

• 22: Durotriges
• 23: Belgae
• 24: Atrebates
• 25: Regni
• 26: Cantiaci
• 27: Trinovantes

Are you serious?

 

[JimW]

Recall reading something about the spread south of the culture we see best.exemplified at.Skara Brae as a unifying ideology. I thought they'd found evidence of mass feasts by Stonehenge with slaughtered animals all driven from a distance which suggested a role as shared place of celebration.
As Dotty says, the hillforts come much later when growing population and land pressures of groups competing for those resources creates conflict.

 

[Anudder Oik]

thats the iron age. You don't understand how old the stones are do you? They predate the beaker people.

you are about...ooh 2 and a half thousand years out

You have misunderstood. I qualified what I was trying to say with: "and their ancestors". Obviously some of the tribes in the table are descended from the people who set up the stones and should be taken as a loose estimate of tribal distribution some 3000 years before, presuming that there were no great migrations before the romans arrived.

What the romans found were warlike people. Even the druids were warriors, apparently. Why were they warlike with a warrior culture (chariots,forts, etc)? How long had they been like that, and why would they have been peaceful and unified some 3000 years earlier?

If the stones had stood in Wales and were sacred, how would the local tribe feel about them being removed by what in reality would have seemed like foreigners to them?

 

[DotCommunist]

well as we have only what the pre-literate cultures left behind in bones and digs and stones we have that for our evidence base. Tacitus writing about a totally different world 2600 years later is just not supporting your idea of the conquest nor is what we do know from the remains that those culture/tribe/peoples left behind.