Spec up the ultimate commuter bike

[nick]

Always look on the bright side - having had my last bike nicked I need a new one and someone to make it up for me.
My last one lasted 14 years before being stolen - so the 2k odd I spent on it was a bargain compared to tube fares - and it brought a smile to my face. With that in mind I will be happy to throw serious money at the problem in order to get something fun and rather unique

Any suggestions? I kind of fancy a belt drive with a Rohloff and maybe a titanium frame (perhaps a Van Nicholas - for no other reason than it would have my name on the frame).

Who can advise and sell to me (London / Brixton)?

 

[mauvais]

Titanium is strange. It became pretty popular in the late 2000s, but has almost completely gone away in favour of decent steel, I think because it was a pain in the arse to work with and sustain. I would do some reading around the sort of 'lessons learned' from some manufacturers & customers who tried using it before throwing serious money at it.

Question is what kind of bike, primarily what kind of riding position?

I commute on a very nicely specced Cotic Soul, which is overkill and for more than just commuting - a do-everything bike. I would definitely recommend a look at their Roadrat for something more appropriate. British, steel, customisable, a lovely company.

 

[gentlegreen]

8 x 3 speed MTB with narrow road tyres and raised gearing.
I probably paid £300 for it in 1991.
I do everything with it - commuting, shopping, days out ...

 

[nick]

Thanks for the heads up on titanium - Maybe I should stick with steel - perhaps I need to try to find another P7, (which was the stolen bike)?.

I like the thought of a bit of overkill so will check out Coptic.

Riding position - I have been on straights and have never tried drop bars for commuting - when I last had drops there was no indexing and the shifters were on the down tube - IMHO too much letting go of the handle bars for London commuting.
I have been wedded to 26" wheels as I stop for red lights and thus favour the acceleration they provide - and they are manoeuverable

So my previous set up was an Orange P7 with solid carbon forks and carbon seat posts and handlebars for cushioning. 26" wheels with 1" skinny tyres. The handlebars were relatively narrow, for getting through gaps.

I'm almost exclusively commuting - but have been known to put big tyres on and managed to do the Ridgeway.

Anyone got any thoughts on Rohloffs or other hub gears coupled with belt drives?

Oh year - I'm also the wrong side of 90kg, so wheel strength is a factor

 

[mauvais]

FWIW, 26" is pretty much history now - it's all gone to 27.5 and 29. It generated loads of column inches in the bike press and a similar amount of forum zealotry but 27.5 at least doesn't really make a massive difference in real life. Probably a mild positive, for what it is.

 

[mauvais]

Oh yeah, the other big thing that's happened in the world of mountain biking, and of late more broadly, is a move from e.g. 3x9 or 3x10 to 1x11.

Because 1x11 on a mountain bike is aimed at climbing more than it is speed, I went with 2x11 instead to get a bit more breadth and avoid spinning out at about 25mph. You can do the maths on gearing, just remember the wheels are bigger and factor that in.

 

[nick]

unless I go hub and belt drive?

 

[weepiper]

Rohloff hubs are very very good but a) heavy b) eye-wateringly expensive c) you may want to try one first to see if you like how it feels - the shifting feels very different under your feet to a derailleur geared bike. It's hard to describe but there's a sort of lag before it engages which I find a bit disconcerting. YMMV though. Also d) consider that it's a bit of a specialist item to service - you need a shop nearish that has experience of them.

 

[Winot]

Shimano Nexus hubs are very good now.

If you really want to treat yourself go for a Roberts or Condor hand built frame.

 

[nick]

Interesting Weepiper & Winot.
Need to find a ready made hub bike to try out.

Assuming money is not the prime consideration, would you treat yourself by getting frame custom made in Condor(1) or going to Brixton Cycles (or maybe Moose or even cycle surgery) and telling them to put together the best things in the brochure?

(1) Roberts: Apparently Chas Roberts is on a sabbatical, so it ain't gonna be a Roberts.
(2) When I was looking at a bike last time around (2003) I recall that Condor were fairly dismissive of my desire for a mountain bike based hybrid and would barely deign to talk to me unless I wanted to discuss road bikes, or maybe cyclo-cross at a pinch

 

[youbeauty]

I've got a Genesis Fortitude with an 11 speed Alfine hub as a 'do anything' bike (it's my only bike). I've had it for about three years and must have done close to 10,000 miles on it. I mostly use it for my commute which is a mix of on and off road but have mountain biked and bikepacked with it.

The Alfine hub is a compromise. It's heavy and, although it's not that much heavier than a 2 x 10 set up, all the weight is in one place so it feels heavier than it is. It's also draggier than a well sorted derailleur but you kind of get used to that and, in my experience, bikes used daily rarely have a well sorted derailleur for long.

In it's favour, and keeping my fingers crossed, it has been reliable and very low maintenance which is what I wanted as I don't have the time to faff about with bikes like I used to. Despite using it every day in all sort of shit weather and mud, it's only needed an oil change once a year (20 minute easy job) and that's about it. I have had its guts out once to give it a good clean but that was as much to see what it looked like as anything. Also, it has developed a bit of an oil leak which is irritating rather than anything else.

Would I buy another one? I think so, to do the same sort of thing. Would I specify one on a dream build? Probably not.

 

[Winot]

Yeah Alfine that's the one. Not Nexus.

 

[weepiper]

Some more UK custom frame builders for your consideration:

Home (Hartley Cycles, London based)

Bob Jackson Cycles | Crafted Bicycle Frame Building Since 1935

Dave Yates framebuilder

Custom, steel bicycle frames handbuilt in the UK (Shand, in Scotland)

 

[Ted Striker]

I think ti is still the best (most robust, flexible, and lightweight) material for a non weight-weenie/artisan-steel-looking roadish bike. If you have no idea what you're doing you can go with Wittson (who will really hold your hand and design it all (or if you want something esoteric) - indeed I've just had my mail from them today to say mine is ready), or Burls (can do some if the design work - Justin is great to work with but is really only a postbox between you and whatever builder he chooses to use, he does no actual welding/building), or even go straight to to framebuilders on Aliexpress for relative peanuts. (There are also off the peg ti bikes/frames available, which may be a good idea - see what planet x are saying, sometimes they have a batch in that get built for £1400-£2000)

I've had an alfine bike and the sluggishness and weight keeps it gathering dust in the shed.

For steel, I can recommend Bob Jacksons (if you want classic looks), especially if they still do their semi-bespoke service for about a 3rd of the normal cost. In fact, a fair few London framebuilders are doing limited/no customisations builds (I.e. just name your size and hope the colours/features are what you need). I personally think steel is overrated for performance tho (looks-wise it can't be beat, of course). Be also prepared for a fair lead time.

If I were you (me!), I'd get stuck into the latest fad of a road bike with discs and whopping clearances to run 700c x 28s or 32s, but also 27.5 X2.1 mtb tyres. (Add di2 and make the frame out if titanium, and you'll get what I'm building now.)

Oh, but most importantly, don't forget the power meter

 

[stockwelljonny]

Always look on the bright side - having had my last bike nicked I need a new one and someone to make it up for me.
My last one lasted 14 years before being stolen - so the 2k odd I spent on it was a bargain compared to tube fares - and it brought a smile to my face. With that in mind I will be happy to throw serious money at the problem in order to get something fun and rather unique

Any suggestions? I kind of fancy a belt drive with a Rohloff and maybe a titanium frame (perhaps a Van Nicholas - for no other reason than it would have my name on the frame).

Who can advise and sell to me (London / Brixton)?

I've been thinking about a Surly Cross Check from Brixton Cycles to answer same sort of query.

 

[DownwardDog]

I had a Rohloff on my rando bike and while it was very good I don't know if I'd have another as derailleur shifting is now so reliable that the weight penalty for hub gears isn't worth it IME&O.

For the "ultimate commuter" I'd go with a hydraulic discs, 1x11 SRAM eTap setup with Garmin Varia smart lights and Edge 1000.

And a power meter obviously.

 

[nick]

All useful stuff. Have found a place called Bespoke that have a few stores in London- will go chat with them as well to see their thoughts

I'm not hearing a lot of love for hubs - shame as I like the sound of belt drive

 

[Ted Striker]

Bespoke are OK and the shops fill of pretty-ish uber expensive dentist/banker bikes, but not convinced they add much to the purchasing process other than a bit of status and feeding gullible bike buyers the necessary bullshit marketing for the next lighter/more aero fad.

 

[nick]

We shall see. Popped into Bespoke - and booked a fitting for next week.
They were mumbling about Moots or Van Nicholas Ti on a Gravel Bike set up

 

[Winot]

I'm not hearing a lot of love for hubs - shame as I like the sound of belt drive

The main argument against hubs seems to be down to weight. The way I see it is that I clock in at 100kg and so another kilo on the bike here or there doesn't make a lot of difference. For that I get a system that doesn't need a lot of servicing or cleaning. Works for me - YMMV.

 

[Ted Striker]

We shall see. Popped into Bespoke - and booked a fitting for next week.
They were mumbling about Moots or Van Nicholas Ti on a Gravel Bike set up

Them selling Moots is the very example of what I'm talking about!

Totally unnecessary. Imported, absolutely zero value (apart from supposed image/brand cache) - other ti builders are just as good, cheaper and closer!

Van Nicolas seem nice tho not sure what customisations they do (indeed, if you need any). Plus I'd like to see what the shop brings to the buying process vs going direct

Ben (iirc) did my bikefit in the Jermyn St branch. Really nice guy

 

[nick]

Totally unnecessary. Imported, absolutely zero value (apart from supposed image/brand cache) - other ti builders are just as good, cheaper and closer!

Van Nicolas seem nice tho not sure what customisations they do (indeed, if you need any). Plus I'd like to see what the shop brings to the buying process vs going direct

Ben (iirc) did my bikefit in the Jermyn St branch. Really nice guy

So you are suggesting getting the bike fit and then emailing it to a direct seller ?

Question: As both frames are imports (though granted Colorado is further than Netherlands) what makes you say Moots are overvalued, whereas van Nicholas (or others) are nice? Are Moots the iPhone of the bike world*? I've not had a chance to look on line about their relative merits, so would value your opinion. A look at the over-blingy Van Nicholas website does indicate that there is quite a lot of available customisation (before it crashes)

* SInce my tech is mainly from Apple, my watches mechanical, my car German and my pants made of wool from happy sheep in Wales: I have to grudgingly accept that I am a wanker that is not immune to a bit of branding

 

[SpookyFrank]

Someone remind me what the point of not having gears is? How do you start off at a red light without getting run over if you don't have gears?

 

[sleaterkinney]

MTBs are great off road but I'm not sure of doing a commute on one, how about looking at a cyclocross bike?

 

[nick]

Someone remind me what the point of not having gears is? How do you start off at a red light without getting run over if you don't have gears?

Yep - gears for me - I like to get away from the lights more quickly than the cars and lorries. Though presumably there is less maintenance / mechanical inefficiency / cost with single speed

Anyway now I've stumbled across an alternative to Rohloff called the Pinion P1.18 - it will certainly get glances from other cyclists - though it could get confused for an e-bike , and I have no idea if it would be any good

 

[Winot]

Someone remind me what the point of not having gears is? How do you start off at a red light without getting run over if you don't have gears?

Run over by whom? My summer bike is single speed - I'm a bit slow off the lights but stand up and am going faster than the average within 10 metres.

Advantage is lack of servicing and simplicity. It's perfectly manageable on my flat London commute. However I wouldn't go single speed for the ultimate commuter and the bike I ride most of the year has a 7 speed Alfine hub.

 

[Ted Striker]

So you are suggesting getting the bike fit and then emailing it to a direct seller ?

Question: As both frames are imports (though granted Colorado is further than Netherlands) what makes you say Moots are overvalued, whereas van Nicholas (or others) are nice? Are Moots the iPhone of the bike world*? I've not had a chance to look on line about their relative merits, so would value your opinion. A look at the over-blingy Van Nicholas website does indicate that there is quite a lot of available customisation (before it crashes)

* SInce my tech is mainly from Apple, my watches mechanical, my car German and my pants made of wool from happy sheep in Wales: I have to grudgingly accept that I am a wanker that is not immune to a bit of branding

Yes - though my antipathy around moots is pretty much based around an erroneous assumption of what a moots would cost (I had them ballparked at £3k+, and VN at £1.8k or so - on reflection I'm not sure how accurate that is) . I still think they're over priced and there's no need to order/import a pretty vanilla Ti bike from the US though.

(But yes, do your retul there, then buy elsewhere would be my path).

 

[Cid]

...I've not had a chance to look on line about their relative merits...

'scuse for quoting out of context, but doing that would probably be a sensible starting point. Forums (dunno what's still popular), Bikeradar, maybe spend some time on GCN.... There seem to be various tales of Ti frames cracking if they're used a lot. The other thing is whether you're sure about the geometry you want. If you're going to dump a load of cash into it, you should probably either test ride lots of bikes, or find one with similar geometry to a bike you like. In the end that is going to make far more difference than Ti, Rohloff etc.

 

[mauvais]

Now that I'm at a PC, here's the Cotic Roadrat:

and my own Soul:

The fundamentals are similar between the two. The Soul gets regularly compared to the Orange P7 so if you liked that, either would be your cup of tea.

Cotic do demos around the UK but usually somewhere mountain bikey like the South Downs. I went over to Derbyshire and went for a test ride out of their warehouse. Definitely do at least a decent road test on whatever you're going to buy before committing money.

 

[nick]

That's a nice bike you have there Mauvais