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RIP Stuart Hall

Kaka Tim said:
RIP - One of Britain's few great post war intellectuals.
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Very important for people i know in Italy for disengaging Gramsci from the PCI and its tradition and offering a modern analysis, not one based on class blocs in pre-modern italy but modern capitalism.
 
butchersapron said:
I really can't recalloff the top my head - i'll need to refamiliarise myself. I do know that it would be expressed in a very different way than Debord! Most likely with horrible 70s sociologist models very prominent. Long time since i read his best stuff.
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Cheers, been thinking about the spectacle a bit cause of Tiqqun's "preliminary materials for the theory of a young-girl" and an argument over what I consider it's addition of misogyny to the already elitist notion of the spectator. Have you read it?
 
revol68 said:
Cheers, been thinking about the spectacle a bit cause of Tiqqun's "preliminary materials for the theory of a young-girl" and an argument over what I consider it's addition of misogyny to the already elitist notion of the spectator. Have you read it?
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I have yeah. Or at least i started it. Hideous.
 
butchersapron said:
I have yeah. Or at least i started it. Hideous.
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Yeah, so many fuckers I've been arguing with can't accept it's misogynistic, "cause the young girl is not a gendered term and applies to men too", yeah but it still uses the power of misogynist contempt for young women to reinforce its argument.
 
Stuart on Desert Island disks...... lots of chat too of course...just listening...recorded in the 90s im guessing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0094b6r/Desert_Island_Discs_Professor_Stuart_Hall/

he picks

MIles Davis - Sid's Ahead

Bob Marley - Redemption Song

Bach Brandenburg concerto

Billie Holiday - I cover the water front

Marvin Gaye - Heard it thru the Grapevine

Wynton Marsalis - Caravan

Miles Davis - I waited for you

pucinni madame butterfly

book: henry james portrait of a lady
and a piano
 
My Cultural Studies Department was full of his contemporaries or near ones or Birmingham School followers, Chas Critcher was one of the more significant ones,

I have to say imo, cultural studies wasn't always as intellectually rigorous at times as say the social sciences.

from what I hear they have been got rid of now, post modernism is where its at.
 
How are "social sciences" more intellectually rigorous? On the contrary, they are stuck in positivism and empiricism. The problem is that the critical moment in cultural studies got lost and it gave way all too easily to affirmative postmodernism - but arid sociology had (and has) nothing more to offer. Not Hall's fault, but still...
 
articul8 said:
How are "social sciences" more intellectually rigorous? On the contrary, they are stuck in positivism and empiricism. The problem is that the critical moment in cultural studies got lost and it gave way all too easily to affirmative postmodernism - but arid sociology had (and has) nothing more to offer. Not Hall's fault, but still...
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Four out of five. Just say arid and move on. No questioning required.
 
articul8 said:
How are "social sciences" more intellectually rigorous? On the contrary, they are stuck in positivism and empiricism. The problem is that the critical moment in cultural studies got lost and it gave way all too easily to affirmative postmodernism - but arid sociology had (and has) nothing more to offer. Not Hall's fault, but still...
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How much modern historical sociology have you read by the way?
 
treelover said:
My Cultural Studies Department was full of his contemporaries or near ones or Birmingham School followers, Chas Critcher was one of the more significant ones,

I have to say imo, cultural studies wasn't always as intellectually rigorous at times as say the social sciences.

from what I hear they have been got rid of now, post modernism is where its at.
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That sounds like snobbishness to me. No mention of Hall either, other than to take a guarded swipe at him. Just what is the problem, treelover? Is it because Hall's work involved race and representation? The media? Post-war subcultures?
 
Not at all, Hall was one of the reasons I went to Uni, its the historiography: often concrete dates weren't mentioned at all when describing discrete periods of social change.
 
revol68 said:
Cheers, been thinking about the spectacle a bit cause of Tiqqun's "preliminary materials for the theory of a young-girl" and an argument over what I consider it's addition of misogyny to the already elitist notion of the spectator. Have you read it?
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how is a young girl not a gendered term? :facepalm:
 
malatesta32 said:
i cant see - or hear - stuart hall on DID. too cosy.
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yes it was cosy. He did have plenty of chances to talk politics, which he did in measured way, and his vision for a multicultural britiain that he set out is one I share and I think we are moving closer to all the time - one where differences are not just tolerated or given space, but actively considered as part of our common 'native' culture.

But perhaps the most interesting insight in the show was getting an impression of how he fits in with Oxford, and the BBC for that matter, and despite his discomforts and natural awareness that he would never be truly part of the elite culture enshrined there, you still get a feeling that he did make himself cosy to some degree. I'm not judging him for that, especially based as it is on an impression, but I did get the feeling that he was still very much an Oxford man, even if not in the traditional and expected way.
 
ska invita said:
yes it was cosy. He did have plenty of chances to talk politics, which he did in measured way, and his vision for a multicultural britiain that he set out is one I share and I think we are moving closer to all the time - one where differences are not just tolerated or given space, but actively considered as part of our common 'native' culture.

But perhaps the most interesting insight in the show was getting an impression of how he fits in with Oxford, and the BBC for that matter, and despite his discomforts and natural awareness that he would never be truly part of the elite culture enshrined there, you still get a feeling that he did make himself cosy to some degree. I'm not judging him for that, especially based as it is on an impression, but I did get the feeling that he was still very much an Oxford man, even if not in the traditional and expected way.
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That makes sense to me. He was an intellectual, so he found himself in many ways most at home in a place full of intellectuals - perhaps even personifying what he spoke of: showing how there is more than one way to be an 'Oxford man'.

DID is supposed to be cosy - but that's its strength, imo. The interviewer gives the interviewee the time and space to talk about what they want to talk about.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
That makes sense to me. He was an intellectual, so he found himself in many ways most at home in a place full of intellectuals - perhaps even personifying what he spoke of: showing how there is more than one way to be an 'Oxford man'.

DID is supposed to be cosy - but that's its strength, imo. The interviewer gives the interviewee the time and space to talk about what they want to talk about.
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He also came from a family that was profoundly distrusting of all things Jamaican and pro-British (particularly via his mum), who, for example, forbade her daughter to have a relationship with a black jamaican doctor, based on her prejudice. So not only was the move to the UK one that felt semi-natural, but the idea of being involved in elitist british culture wasnt a complete contradiction either - though it did become problematic for him as his politics developed. interestingly he said he 'became jamaican' whilst in britain, id guess driven by feelings of opposition.
 
butchersapron said:
One thing i forgot about him - his role in the open uni. That was a serious practical intervention - both in helping establish its credibility and in developing courses reflecting the life of its students.
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Did he leave Oxford for Open Uni? i got the impression he did, but may have misunderstood that.
 
butchersapron said:
Mann.

Come on - 'arid sociology' my god, what a hideous cliche. I reckon you've looked at a haralambos 30 years ago and that's it.
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actually, no. Clearly I should. I only meant that I'm deeply wary of the argument that aesthetic or cultural value can be reduced in a deterministic way to sociological categories. But you're right to pick my up on a lazy dismissal of the whole field based on some narrow and possibly out-dated prejudices. Would be interested in understanding developments in critical and historical sociology.
 
articul8 said:
actually, no. Clearly I should. I only meant that I'm deeply wary of the argument that aesthetic or cultural value can be reduced in a deterministic way to sociological categories. But you're right to pick my up on a lazy dismissal of the whole field based on some narrow and possibly out-dated prejudices. Would be interested in understanding developments in critical and historical sociology.
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As ever though, no one actually made the argument that you're dismissing.

Learn yourself some stuff if you like.
 
butchersapron said:
One thing i forgot about him - his role in the open uni. That was a serious practical intervention - both in helping establish its credibility and in developing courses reflecting the life of its students.
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Astronomer Jocelyn Bell is another top academic who made a point of working for the OU. The exact opposite of the likes of AC Grayling.
 
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