Redundancy question

[equationgirl]

They can't make you redundant without telling you what role they are making you redundant from. Well, they can try but that way a tribunal claim could lie.

They need to clarify whether it's redundancy payment + freelance OR redundancy payment or freelance, that's not clear

You are entitled to take a person with you, whether a colleague or union rep if you are in a union.

 

[equationgirl]

On the insurance front, if you are doing mainly desk based work insurance is pretty cheap. Just do a search for professional indemnity insurance and there's quite a few options.

 

[plurker]

In writing? Or in the presence of witnesses?
You should definitely take someone else to the consultation meeting. You will want some support and a witness to ensure you are not verballed.

Only by the three Co. Directors who are in the meetings; it's just them and me.
I don't really have anyone else to take along.

 

[StoneRoad]

Only by the three Co. Directors who are in the meetings; it's just them and me.
I don't really have anyone else to take along.

I may have this wrong, but I think ACAS might be able to substitute instead of a union rep.

In the past, I have used something similar, but from a professional association rather than a union.

 

[redsquirrel]

Only by the three Co. Directors who are in the meetings; it's just them and me.
I don't really have anyone else to take along.

Three of them vs you.
Jesus this sounds pretty much like an example of how not to conduct a redundancy process.

 

[equationgirl]

plurker I saw this on indeed and thought of you

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[equationgirl]

Three of them vs you.
Jesus this sounds pretty much like an example of how not to conduct a redundancy process.

There's several examples of how not to run a redundofest process on the work frustrations thread, it's a fairly straightforward process but amazingly easy to fuck up, in my experience.

 

[bellaozzydog]

As furlough is finishing, the company where I work is looking to make 75 people redundant and have advertised 11 new positions. I have had the same job here for ten years. One of the new posts looks like my job but with two thirds the hours and half the pay. No one else at work has done this job but it's not like I'm a brain surgeon, there are at least twenty other people who would be perfectly able to do it.

This is my understanding of it:
If I apply for this new job and get it, then more redundancies are announced at some day in the near future, my redundancy then will be calculated on the rate of pay for this new job.
If I apply for this new job and don't get it, I have to be made redundant now.
If I don't apply for any of these newly created jobs, I have to be made redundant now.

Is that right?
Or can I be offered "my" job without applying for it and if I refuse it because it's two thirds of the work for half the pay do I lose my redundancy now?

I have looked on Acas and the government websites, but I am sure I don't understand something. Can anyone offer me any advice, please.

..

 

[Espresso]

Thanks plurker
Everything turned out well for me in the end. I got the redundancy and I hear from others who still work in the same company that several people wanted me back but certain others who hold more sway think I am a terrible traitor for going for redundancy and my name is now mud there. I understand that there are lies going round about me, saying I did all manner of things I most certainly did not do and didn't do all kinds of other things I ought to have done. Lies. Lies and more lies.
Not that I give a single solitary hoot, because I found a lovely new job where the people I work with are ace and the bosses think the sun shines out of my every orifice.

I found it a horrible thing to go through, but I got a lot of help on here and I would like to wish you all the best as you go through it.

 

[plurker]

I may have this wrong, but I think ACAS might be able to substitute instead of a union rep.

ACAS have advised that they won't do representation at this stage, as I've not yet been formally served a Redundancy Notice. Solicitors may, but they're asking £350+...
I've now got to a point where I've got a final meeting next week; the employers are saying

OPTION ONE: You are served your notice immediately, work your contracted notice period, and receive statutory redundancy pay (the provisional amount for statutory redundancy is £7072).

OPTION TWO: You are served your notice immediately, but work until the end of July (Fri 29 July). In this option, <company> would provide an ex-gratia payment to you to form a completed redundancy package of £15,000 total. The additional payment made would be subject to you working up to this later date and working to the satisfaction of the company. We explained that as you would be working your notice period of 12 weeks, you would not receive pay in lieu of notice as part of the redundancy package.

We have been involved in a period of consultation with you since 4 Feb 2022. and it now appears that we are moving closer to the conclusion of this consultation period and you are therefore advised that this meeting may result in the termination of your employment

I spoke to ACAS and they have said do the meeting, and then write a formal Grievance letter straight after it, letting them know that I intend to take it to Tribunal. I don't really want to do that, as it'll take ages, but I'm hoping that the thread of it, and the ACAS-led 'Early Conciliation Service' will get me to a better place financially than their Option 2 offer.

This kind of stuff really does my head in, so thanks you Urbs for support and advice

 

[plurker]

Everything turned out well for me in the end. I got the redundancy and I hear from others who still work in the same company that several people wanted me back but certain others who hold more sway think I am a terrible traitor for going for redundancy and my name is now mud there. I understand that there are lies going round about me, saying I did all manner of things I most certainly did not do and didn't do all kinds of other things I ought to have done. Lies. Lies and more lies.
Not that I give a single solitary hoot, because I found a lovely new job where the people I work with are ace and the bosses think the sun shines out of my every orifice.

I found it a horrible thing to go through, but I got a lot of help on here and I would like to wish you all the best as you go through it.

I'm glad it all worked out for you Here, the moment anyone leaves, the muck-spreading starts the next week - it's pretty grim.
It's quite a small, interconnected, industry that I work in - so this might leave me stuffed reputationally, but I don't care any more; might be a kick up the arse to do something else!

 

[redsquirrel]

ACAS have advised that they won't do representation at this stage, as I've not yet been formally served a Redundancy Notice. Solicitors may, but they're asking £350+...
I've now got to a point where I've got a final meeting next week; the employers are saying

OPTION ONE: You are served your notice immediately, work your contracted notice period, and receive statutory redundancy pay (the provisional amount for statutory redundancy is £7072).

OPTION TWO: You are served your notice immediately, but work until the end of July (Fri 29 July). In this option, <company> would provide an ex-gratia payment to you to form a completed redundancy package of £15,000 total. The additional payment made would be subject to you working up to this later date and working to the satisfaction of the company. We explained that as you would be working your notice period of 12 weeks, you would not receive pay in lieu of notice as part of the redundancy package.

We have been involved in a period of consultation with you since 4 Feb 2022. and it now appears that we are moving closer to the conclusion of this consultation period and you are therefore advised that this meeting may result in the termination of your employment

I spoke to ACAS and they have said do the meeting, and then write a formal Grievance letter straight after it, letting them know that I intend to take it to Tribunal. I don't really want to do that, as it'll take ages, but I'm hoping that the thread of it, and the ACAS-led 'Early Conciliation Service' will get me to a better place financially than their Option 2 offer.

This kind of stuff really does my head in, so thanks you Urbs for support and advice

Total shits. Good luck plucker

 

[plurker]

Hello folks, just bumping this one.
We agreed redundancy terms that we're happy with, on condition that I complete my work 'satisfactorily' up until my final day of work, on 31 July.

My successor starts this Monday, and I just had this from the Office Manager.

I don’t know where you’re at with any sort of hand over document – but I wanted to check to see how it’s going, if you want any help with it etc so that we can sort it over the next couple of months and not end up rushing it at the end of July.

We're going to put some meetings in for you and (new person doing my role) so you can start handing some bits over, maybe collaborating on some things in the meantime and generally just unloading bit by bit so they are gradually painted a picture about how the department currently runs

I'm right to respond with something along the lines of 'As you've made the role redundant, there should be no need to hand anything over' aren't I? I can see them saying that's me not being cooperative, but honestly - fvck this!!

 

[Pickman's model]

Hello folks, just bumping this one.
We agreed redundancy terms that we're happy with, on condition that I complete my work 'satisfactorily' up until my final day of work, on 31 July.

My successor starts this Monday, and I just had this from the Office Manager.

I don’t know where you’re at with any sort of hand over document – but I wanted to check to see how it’s going, if you want any help with it etc so that we can sort it over the next couple of months and not end up rushing it at the end of July.

We're going to put some meetings in for you and (new person doing my role) so you can start handing some bits over, maybe collaborating on some things in the meantime and generally just unloading bit by bit so they are gradually painted a picture about how the department currently runs

I'm right to respond with something along the lines of 'As you've made the role redundant, there should be no need to hand anything over' aren't I? I can see them saying that's me not being cooperative, but honestly - fvck this!!

i'd be tempted to put 'having a handover with someone taking over my redundant job isn't really in the spirit of things, is it' but as you say that might fall foul of their edict on co-operation. unless they're really interested in history they shouldn't have any curiosity about how things currently run, should they?

 

[Pickman's model]

Hello folks, just bumping this one.
We agreed redundancy terms that we're happy with, on condition that I complete my work 'satisfactorily' up until my final day of work, on 31 July.

My successor starts this Monday, and I just had this from the Office Manager.

I don’t know where you’re at with any sort of hand over document – but I wanted to check to see how it’s going, if you want any help with it etc so that we can sort it over the next couple of months and not end up rushing it at the end of July.

We're going to put some meetings in for you and (new person doing my role) so you can start handing some bits over, maybe collaborating on some things in the meantime and generally just unloading bit by bit so they are gradually painted a picture about how the department currently runs

I'm right to respond with something along the lines of 'As you've made the role redundant, there should be no need to hand anything over' aren't I? I can see them saying that's me not being cooperative, but honestly - fvck this!!

when i got made redundant there were two elements to my pay-off, the one based on the time i'd been there and the other based on me being nice about it. it sounds like you've got a similar sort of thing going on here so depending on the size of the being nice pay-out you might decide to play along with it. but it's a shitty, shitty thing for them to do to you.

 

[equationgirl]

plurker if the role is being made redundant there may be duties that get absorbed into what other people do, so technically a handover document may be needed BUT having been in the situation I just tidied up various projects to a sensible place and/or did some brief rapid fire training for someone.

But handover document? No. Fuck that. Did you get any training on the department or a handover document when you started? If not, why should you impart your hard won knowledge when you're being made redundant and you have to work your notice period?

 

[not-bono-ever]

its shitty management to ask you to do this TBH

 

[nick]

Handover document?
Never mind the quality, feel the width
you'll have your money by the time anyone looks at it


Or - suggest the best way is for you to do oral handover, and whoever it picking up the pieces does the write up - to ensure they capture it correctly