Questions to ask when visiting primary schools?

[gaijingirl]

You'd think with the shortage of places, they'd expand Fenstanton as a primary not a secondary.

they're supposed to be doing both .... it's very confusing. I might even call and find out because it will be our 2nd closest school if we move and still v.close if we don't. I think of all of them in this area, it's the one I feel instinctively least keen on based on word of mouth but I've not actually visited it. Surprised that even Jubilee opposite me was massively oversubscribed this year - more than 3 to 1 on applications!

 

[gaijingirl]

The ones nearest us aren't great either, although the 'outstanding' one isn't far. Our nearest, I'll be visiting this morning but I don't expect to like it. The one we like best is a mile away as the crow flies and if we don't get a place there then I fear we'll be offered a place somewhere we haven't chosen, i.e our nearest, as I think you're only likely to get a place at what I'd like to choose as our second or third if you put them first. So much for choice.

gosh you're looking for R too! It's amazing how quickly these babies grow isn't it! I hope you find a nice place too. Maybe we should get together and open the first virtual "free" U75 primary.

 

[Red Cat]

Thanks gg.

We did find a nice one, the one I mentioned before. The downside is it's relatively far and I was warned by someone at R's nursery yesterday that the council like you to choose the nearest, which for us is a Victorian school with no access to green space, on the most depressing high street known to man due to zero council investment in the area for decades (we are currently awaiting 'regeneration' courtesy of Tesco who have bribed promised goodies in return for planning permission ).

I'm finding the whole thing quite depressing - all that literacy and numeracy stuff is truly mind shrinking. I'm not surprised home ed is growing.

 

[gaijingirl]

oh that Tesco story is familiar! They seem to own most of Streatham and Brixton at the moment.

I think when you look into it deeply it is confusing and depressing. I remember when I was doing my first teaching year realising just how much number crunching/admin/bureaucracy and basically jargon there is around teaching and learning and finding it very tough indeed - I remember having a bit of a breakdown in the office of a senior member of staff along the lines of "this is all a completely pointless waste of time".

At the end of the day though, good teachers will be able to satisfy all that gubbins, some of which is actually quite useful for our planning, whilst essentially still teaching well - and that last bit is all about engaging the students. The numbers might go some way to helping us to do that but for me, at least, it's much more about building up a class-relationship and encouraging the students.

Personally I'd just like O to be able to read, write, do her sums, run around a lot, do some sport and music, make friends and be happy. Probably that's all any parent wants. It's so hard to sort out from all the mumbo jumbo those basic needs.

We're like you - the outside space is something that we feel strongly about, which is partly why we're probably moving to be close to the one school around here that has a really good amount of it. (not the only reason but it is a big thing in favour of where we're going to). They also have a lovely separate music department set in their nature garden with an outdoor theatre overlooking the pond and trees. For me, that sort of thing is really important because I'll damn well make sure myself that she can read and write properly! Of course, there's absolutely no guarantee she'll get in to that school and at this stage, no guarantee our move will work out anyway.

Another thing that I never knew I'd be feeling so strongly about!

 

[Red Cat]

They also have a lovely separate music department set in their nature garden with an outdoor theatre overlooking the pond and trees.

That sounds lovely!

Nothing like that round here

 

[gaijingirl]

At my group this morning all the other mums have primary age children and had just picked up their application booklets (the one linked to above)... they are all so worried. Incredible that it causes such worry to so many.

 

[gaijingirl]

That sounds lovely!

Nothing like that round here

I know - I was really impressed... they'd also made several caves underneath the school - part of which is built on stilts due to a hill.. you had to push through foliage to get in - one contained a beach and the other a little forest.

no guarantee she'll end up there or the whole place isn't turned into some super academy any minute now of course..

 

[nagapie]

I know - I was really impressed... they'd also made several caves underneath the school - part of which is built on stilts due to a hill.. you had to push through foliage to get in - one contained a beach and the other a little forest.

Which one is that? I'm assuming it's where O goes to nursery so massively oversubscribed

 

[gaijingirl]

no it's a different one - we'll never get her into the primary attached to her nursery unless we win the lottery and buy a house practically next door and that doesn't have any green space either (although the playground isn't bad) - we won't even get her into the nursery proper there when she turns 3... the one I'm talking about is also oversubscribed but then even Jubilee had 215 applications for 60 places last year!!

 

[Red Cat]

a Victorian school with no access to green space, on the most depressing high street known to man

Is actually really nice! One form entry, big light classrooms, lovely open-plan well equipped reception classrooms, no green but a very well equipped playground, a little studio to make radio, they've just got an allotment and have signed a contract to do forest school/bushcraft stuff, a new library being done furnished with sofas and beanbags. I liked the head, although Blagsta thought he seemed a bit New Labour - easy to talk to and not at all infantilising. We really liked it, as did friends of ours.

 

[gaijingirl]

Is actually really nice! One form entry, big light classrooms, lovely open-plan well equipped reception classrooms, no green but a very well equipped playground, a little studio to make radio, they've just got an allotment and have signed a contract to do forest school/bushcraft stuff, a new library being done furnished with sofas and beanbags. I liked the head, although Blagsta thought he seemed a bit New Labour - easy to talk to and not at all infantilising. We really liked it, as did friends of ours.

oh hurrah! What a relief! This is it really... we can talk and talk but until we visit it's all bets off really. So me talking about O's future school is a bit silly really - we'll have to visit the lot nearer the time... it's only because we're moving house that we're having to take it into consideration now - as it's not so far off.

I have to say - it sounds lovely. Can you imagine Rosa being happy there?

 

[Red Cat]

oh hurrah! What a relief! This is it really... we can talk and talk but until we visit it's all bets off really. So me talking about O's future school is a bit silly really - we'll have to visit the lot nearer the time... it's only because we're moving house that we're having to take it into consideration now - as it's not so far off.

I have to say - it sounds lovely. Can you imagine Rosa being happy there?

I can! I was worried she'd feel squished into a small space at school after being in such a good environment as she is now, but I don't think she'll feel that in this school. More green stuff would be good but I'm sure I can always get involved in fundraising and garden up the tarmac spaces.

 

[clandestino]

There's no green space at our boy's school and it was something that concerned me, especially compared to the amazing outside green space there is at the school gg's looking at (they're very close together), but it hasn't been an issue at all, probably because there's a nice park/playground in between the two schools that we visit fairly regularly (at least three times a week after school). In fact on some Fridays, it's been a really nice park to go to as most of the kids and parents go there too, so it's a nice social space and you get to hang out and chat to the other parents. So even though the playground at our boy's school is pretty small and concrete, it's been fine.

We got the booklet today as well, as we're applying for our youngest's place, who'll start next September. I was surprised to see that the furthest admission last year for our school was 450 or so metres, quite a long way for such a small school. gg - might you be close enough to try going for our school? I can't recommend it enough.

 

[nogojones]

Be interested in any parents'/teachers' views of good questions. And maybe bad ones

How much for the little blond one?

 

[clandestino]

Also, another thing to consider. When it says Jubilee has 215 applications for 60 places, that must mean people who put down for first, second and third places on their application. I know some people who've put schools down as their third place that they could never get into, simply because they didn't want to put down a bad school nearer to them, just in case they were given it. We did that for our application too - there was no way the word Fenstanton was going on our application form. So the competition might not be as bad as it first appears...

 

[nagapie]

pm

no it's a different one - we'll never get her into the primary attached to her nursery unless we win the lottery and buy a house practically next door and that doesn't have any green space either (although the playground isn't bad) - we won't even get her into the nursery proper there when she turns 3... the one I'm talking about is also oversubscribed but then even Jubilee had 215 applications for 60 places last year!!

me which one, I'm curious.

 

[nagapie]

Also, another thing to consider. When it says Jubilee has 215 applications for 60 places, that must mean people who put down for first, second and third places on their application. I know some people who've put schools down as their third place that they could never get into, simply because they didn't want to put down a bad school nearer to them, just in case they were given it. We did that for our application too - there was no way the word Fenstanton was going on our application form. So the competition might not be as bad as it first appears...

Which school are you talking about? I have a further interest as a secondary teacher in Lambeth who did a lot of primary school visits last year, but not so many up that way. Jubilee and Holy Trinity have no green space but the former makes use of Brock Park and the latter Holmewood Gardens.

 

[gaijingirl]

Also, another thing to consider. When it says Jubilee has 215 applications for 60 places, that must mean people who put down for first, second and third places on their application. I know some people who've put schools down as their third place that they could never get into, simply because they didn't want to put down a bad school nearer to them, just in case they were given it. We did that for our application too - there was no way the word Fenstanton was going on our application form. So the competition might not be as bad as it first appears...

I think what it interesting is that if you look at the booklet.. Fenstanton was over-subscribed too but everyone who applied (no matter what choice they put it down as) either got in, or got a higher offer at another school. However, this is not the case with Jubilee! Very interesting what you say about people putting down an impossible choice for their 3rd school. Isn't that risky though because can't you be given a school that is none of your choices but simply in the borough?

I have to say I find the process with the offer system v. confusing. I'll be enrolling gaijinboy's mathematical mind for that! Interesting that we might even conceivably be in the catchment for your school... that's got a great reputation!

 

[sheothebudworths]

I'll be honest about my big mistakes choosing a school. I sent my eldest to a good state primary a fair way away. Big mistake. She didn't know any of the local kids unless I knew their parents and as a result was never really part of the local kids group and was an outsider. This really mattered, living on a council estate. The two youngest went to the local not brilliant primary but were much happier and made good friends in the area whereas my eldest never made her own local friends iyswim. My eldest couldn't wait to leave Brixton, my two younger ones have lifelong local friends and love it here. Maybe that's not an issue where you live but it is for my kids and I think I let my eldest down, socially speaking. Bright kids will do well in most schools. In the end it's down to walking in and gauging the atmosphere. Is it a happy friendly school?

Absolutely agree with all of this - and fwiw, given that they're all fairly close, I would base your decision almost entirely on the atmosphere of the school (and you can get a pretty good sense of that just from a visit, imo).

 

[gaijingirl]

Which school are you talking about? I have a further interest as a secondary teacher in Lambeth who did a lot of primary school visits last year, but not so many up that way. Jubilee and Holy Trinity have no green space but the former makes use of Brock Park and the latter Holmewood Gardens.

Fenstanton use the park a lot too.. they were at the opening of the water/sand play. The schools I see using it most though are Evelyn Grace (secondary) and Rosendale.

 

[Thora]

I think what it interesting is that if you look at the booklet.. Fenstanton was over-subscribed too but everyone who applied (no matter what choice they put it down as) either got in, or got a higher offer at another school. However, this is not the case with Jubilee! Very interesting what you say about people putting down an impossible choice for their 3rd school. Isn't that risky though because can't you be given a school that is none of your choices but simply in the borough?

I have to say I find the process with the offer system v. confusing. I'll be enrolling gaijinboy's mathematical mind for that! Interesting that we might even conceivably be in the catchment for your school... that's got a great reputation!

If you don't get any of your choices, won't you just be given the nearest school with a space?

 

[gaijingirl]

If you don't get any of your choices, won't you just be given the nearest school with a space?

Yes, that's essentially what I'm saying.. which is why it seems to me to be a bit risky to gamble with your choices really (as Ian was saying some people do) as you do hear of people being given schools really far away - there was one well publicised account of a couple (city financier and hedge fund manager!) who were incensed when instead of being allocated the outstanding school on his road was given a much dodgier school ages away.

I didn't feel so terrible for them when I read this bit of the article though..."Their parents, Greg and Alex, said they are effectively being forced into choosing a closer private school despite living 800 metres from the school gates." Most of us couldn't afford the private school, so they're clearly not in such a terrible situation!

 

[girasol]

I chose my son's primary school (the final one) based on how much outdoor space it had and proximity to our house (we had just moved to the area).

p.s. he got into our first choice of secondary school, so although the primary school he went to wasn't outstanding, it took good care of everyone. What Mrs. M said, bright kids do well in most primary schools.

 

[catinthehat]

I would second (or third) staff turnover - consistency is really important - and how many classes in the last 2 years have been covered internally or by supply. I would also look for use of things like co operative learning and non use of things like learning materials produced by those with vested interests - corporate stuff which is PR dressed up as concern for education.

 

[Cloo]

Well, seen three schools that will be going on the list - this morning's one will be #1; you can see why it's been rated 'excellent'. We are just outside catchment, but it sounds likely they will take an extra class next year, so if they do I think we'd have a fairly good chance of getting in (and space is not a worry, they have loads of it and know how they will use what they have with the extra form). And if they don't take an extra class we still have a weeny chance of getting in, and we have enough choices to definitely put it down first.

The Jewish school is very good, but our nearest school was really impressive in terms of how well they do given a challenging intake. The head is very inspiring and the behaviour of and attention given to teachers by the kids was really good, plus they're not afraid to challenge them.

 

[rubbershoes]

We chose the primary school on the basis it was the only school in the village

 

[Cloo]

Does it go around complaining about its status?

 

[Winot]

Sympathies to everyone going through this horrible business. At the risk of adding to the nonsense, there's quite a useful site here: Find School Info.

 

[Cloo]

I dunno, I'm finding it all very interesting, but then we have semi paid for 'schools we don't have to worry about' by living where we do. Absurd and wrong state of affairs, of course - no one should have to live somewhere where they worry about schools for their kids.

 

[Pinette]

I would add, they're all adults now (37, 26 and nearly 22).

It's okay, Mrs Magpie. We all try to do the best we can at the time with our children's education. There is no other way. Retrospective angst is just redundant.