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Proposed potash mine in North York Moors National Park

Fuchs66

Fuchs66

Ring a ding
Anyone seen this?

Heard about it because there are test drillings going on in my home village Robin Hood's Bay and I am currently having lots of interesting discussions/arguments with folk up there. On the one side are those who are dead set against the plan as it will most probably have a detrimental effect on the environment and with that the tourist industry on the other side are those who believe that well paid jobs will be on offer to locals. I tend strongly towards the former opinion.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...ears_over_timing_of_potash_drilling_1_3672778

The National Park have of course been bought off

http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news...g_expert_joins_mining_company_board_1_3303328
 
Provided it's done with as little visual impact and environmental damage as possible I'd be strongly in favour. Northern England badly needs permanent, long-term jobs, and this seems to offer them.
 
I know deep down that "potash" isn't a portmanteau of "potato" and "mash", and presumably is some sort of unrelated mineral, but I can't help thinking of it positively and hoping that it is studded with sausages.
 
Here's Boulby potash mine in Cleveland if anyone want's to envisage Whitby with this in the background

mine_surface.jpg
 
Roadkill said:
Provided it's done with as little visual impact and environmental damage as possible I'd be strongly in favour. Northern England badly needs permanent, long-term jobs, and this seems to offer them.
Click to expand...
Oh I understand the jobs argument and agree with it, I just dont think the benefits will outweigh the costs. I also have a nasty feeling that most of the workforce will be coming from outside the area.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Oh I understand the jobs argument and agree with it, I just dont think the benefits will outweigh the costs. I also have a nasty feeling that most of the workforce will be coming from outside the area.
Click to expand...

That may well be so initially, but as the industry beds in the local skills base should adapt to it and more locals should be employed. Besides, even those coming from outside the area would inject money into the local economy.
 
Roadkill said:
That may well be so initially, but as the industry beds in the local skills base should adapt to it and more locals should be employed. Besides, even those coming from outside the area would inject money into the local economy.
Click to expand...
Thing is though there is already a thriving tourist industry pumping money into the area from outside. I dont think a project like this is exactly compatible, never mind the fact as stated above that we are talking about a National Park here. Normal residents are not even allowed to fit double glazing in some areas and all of a sudden there's talk of the largest potash mine in the world!
 
We're in an economic black hole, large parts of the north have sky-high unemployment and a complete dearth of growth industries, in an economy that's grotesquely skewed towards the south-east and the financial services sector. If this offers some prospect of jobs in an industry less seasonal and more secure than tourism then I'd argue that it's worth the disbenefits in conservation terms. BUT I did say it should be done as cleanly and with as little visual impact as possible.
 
Roadkill said:
We're in an economic black hole, large parts of the north have sky-high unemployment and a complete dearth of growth industries, in an economy that's grotesquely skewed towards the south-east and the financial services sector. If this offers some prospect of jobs in an industry less seasonal and more secure than tourism then I'd argue that it's worth the disbenefits in conservation terms. BUT I did say it should be done as cleanly and with as little visual impact as possible.
Click to expand...
To a large degree I agree with you but it's the last point that worries me, PLUS how are they going to transport what could be as much as (according to the figures I've seen) 3Mt/a of potash? The transport infrastructure around the area wont be able to handle it. Also where is the waste, which will be a similar amount, going to go? All points that dont seem to be mentioned much by the supporters of this.
 
Fuchs66 said:
To a large degree I agree with you but it's the last point that worries me, PLUS how are they going to transport what could be as much as (according to the figures I've seen) 3Mt/a of potash? The transport infrastructure around the area wont be able to handle it. Also where is the waste, which will be a similar amount, going to go? All points that dont seem to be mentioned much by the supporters of this.
Click to expand...

There does seem to be a certain lack of detail, and Sirius Minerals' own site is a bit vague. At a google there's talk of a pipeline to Teesport, although that doesn't seem to be confirmed. On the other hand, this isn't in the heart of the Yorkshire Dales - it's in the area between Scarborough and Whitby, which already has several major roads and a rail link. The problem may not be as serious as all that. Tbh though, even if it does require an upgrade to the roads in the area then so be it - so long as the company contributes to the cost.
 
Roadkill said:
There does seem to be a certain lack of detail, and Sirius Minerals' own site is a bit vague. At a google there's talk of a pipeline to Teesport, although that doesn't seem to be confirmed. On the other hand, this isn't in the heart of the Yorkshire Dales - it's in the area between Scarborough and Whitby, which already has several major roads and a rail link. The problem may not be as serious as all that. Tbh though, even if it does require an upgrade to the roads in the area then so be it - so long as the company contributes to the cost.
Click to expand...
Eh? There hasnt been a rail link to that area since the 60s, (the nearest stations are Whitby and Scarborough and both aren't exactly large) the roads aren't good enough for large scale heavy goods traffic. I grew up in Robin Hood's Bay and my parents still live there, I do know the area quite well.
 
Fuchs66 said:
Eh? There hasnt been a rail link to that area since the 60s, (the nearest stations are Whitby and Scarborough and both aren't exactly large) the roads aren't good enough for large scale heavy goods traffic. I grew up in Robin Hood's Bay and my parents still live there, I do know the area quite well.
Click to expand...

The A165 and other major roads in the area are hardly single-track Dales lanes though, are they? IIRC from googling yesterday the company reckon that they can handle the construction traffic, although they implied that they couldn't handle all of the potash traffic, which is where the pipeline comes in. Also IIRC the rail link they were thinking about wasn't direct to site - although I did see speculation/wishful thinking about partial reopening of the old Whitby-Scarborough line on some enthusiast forum or other - but rather a matter of trucking it to a railhead. Tbh that probably wouldn't happen.

FWIW I don't disagree with you about the lack of detail, but the whole process is in its pretty early stages as yet, and one hopes that adequate transport arrangements would have to be planned before planning permission was granted for the development. It's premature to write the whole thing off at this stage, though, if the potential economic benefits are as significant as they seem...
 
Are there any circumstances under which you think we shouldn't let big industry into our national parks :confused:
 
Potash is Potassium Chloride. It is useful as a fertilizer. Put it on your tomatoes; on the soil that is. However do you want hundreds of heavy lorries carrying white powder to rumble through your villages day and night, leaving a trail on the road? If the stuff gets on the road it will be soapy and a bit slippery. On the other hand people need work.
 
bi0boy said:
Are there any circumstances under which you think we shouldn't let big industry into our national parks :confused:
Click to expand...

Yes. Lots. On the other hand, I'd rather sacrifice a small part of the edge of a national park than watch the north's economy spiral further down the tube for lack of productive jobs.

*edit* Remember, I've not for a minute argued there should be no conditions attached...
 
Pickman's model said:
now the cat's out of the bag. so you think it nothing to fuss about for whitby to be surrounded by new mines?
Click to expand...

Now, indeed, the cat is out of the bag. You're happy for the Yorkshire Coast to be an impoverished theme park for people like you to witter on about how pretty it is?

One straw man deserves another, and all that...
 
Roadkill said:
Now, indeed, the cat is out of the bag. You're happy for the Yorkshire Coast to be an impoverished theme park for people like you to witter on about how pretty it is?

One straw man deserves another, and all that...
Click to expand...
yes because a potash mine assures a safe, long-term future with jobs for all in yorkshire :cool:

a bit like those coal mines.
 
Why not just abolish national parks outwith the Southern England? We can bring heavy industry into the North and all the nice jobs, wealthy tourists and pleasant countryside can stay in the South?
 
bi0boy said:
Why not just abolish national parks outwith the Southern England? We can bring heavy industry into the North and all the nice jobs, wealthy tourists and pleasant countryside can stay in the South?
Click to expand...

*edit* Sorry, wrong target. You're way off the mark, though - I've argued nothing of the kind.
 
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