Pigs in the Trough - Cardiff Politicians Vote themselves Higher "Wages"

[Udo Erasmus]

If only me and m'workmates could vote to give ourselves a pay rise!
This bit is particularly poetic: "Tory council group leader David Walker spoke in support of giving better allowances to members as he said it was difficult to attract new people to become candidates."

Councillors vote to give themselves a pay rise
May 17 2008 by David James, South Wales Echo

COUNCILLORS in Cardiff have voted to give themselves their first inflation-adjusted pay increase since Russell Goodway, below, was the city council leader.

At full council on Thursday, Liberal Democrat council leader Rodney Berman signalled that he hoped to end the stigma over pay for councillors that had existed since the debacle over unlawful allowances under his Labour predecessor.

Councillor Berman brought a motion before council asking the body to approve a 1.8% increase based on the consumer price index rate of inflation in mid 2007.

The motion also raised the prospect of a further increase in allowances later this year after the publication of a report by the Independent Remuneration Panel for Wales.

It read: “This council notes the levels of members’ allowances are currently well below the maximum levels of members’ allowances specified by the Welsh Assembly Government.

“The council further notes that these levels were not subject to inflationary increases during the last administration.”

It added: “Further consideration of the current scheme will be given once the report of the Independent Remuneration Panel is considered.”

Tory council group leader David Walker spoke in support of giving better allowances to members as he said it was difficult to attract new people to become candidates.

The proposal was passed with no objection although it was delayed twice as officials had not put enough information before councillors to allow them to pass the proposal legally.

The blunders were pointed out by former Labour leader Russell Goodway, who said: “This council, of all councils in Wales, should not be able to get this wrong.”

Current Labour group leader Coun Ralph Cook said: “The council’s AGM was a shambles.

“I find it unbelievable, after all the controversy over councillors’ allowances during the last few years, that Cardiff council officers, of all people, can make mistakes on this issue.”

Independent councillor Jayne Cowan also criticised Coun Berman for adding to the local authority’s wage bill by adding two more executive members to accommodate Plaid Cymru.

She said: “Surely the sensible option would be to keep the executive numbers the same, and simply replace two Liberal Democrats with two Plaid Cymru members?”

david.james@mediawales.co.uk

 

[Udo Erasmus]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news...rs-threaten-industrial-action-91466-20819486/

Unison, which has 4,000 members across all departments in Cardiff council, and the GMB, which has 2,300 members, had called on Cardiff council to suspend a new tougher sickness absence policy as they fear it will lead to genuinely-ill workers being sacked.

At the same time as jacking up their salary, it seems politicians want to persecute council staff who commit the crime of being unwell. Nice.

As always, me and my comrades will be with the regular people on the picket lines. The real politics you'll find there is more worthwhile than any of the crap emanating from County Hall.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

All Aboard the Gravy Train!

]

+

=

 

[lewislewis]

It's worth pointing out that the unions were in negotiations with the council before the elections and before Plaid were on the scene. I'll fully expect Plaid councillors to support any industrial action that might come about and think we'd be in a good position to do that.

Incidentally the Tory council in the Vale are bringing in a 'zero tolerance' anti-sickness policy for council workers according to my local paper.

Secondly- nothing wrong with a 1.8% rise in line with the rpi.

 

[Socrates]

It's worth pointing out that the unions were in negotiations with the council before the elections and before Plaid were on the scene. I'll fully expect Plaid councillors to support any industrial action that might come about and think we'd be in a good position to do that.

Incidentally the Tory council in the Vale are bringing in a 'zero tolerance' anti-sickness policy for council workers according to my local paper.

Secondly- nothing wrong with a 1.8% rise in line with the rpi.

seems a bit rum. politicians awarding themselves a pay rise. sounds like our taxes will be paying for these new plaid councillors added to the executive. it will be good for them, as their salary will probably triple or quadruple.

 

[Gavin Bl]

sounds like our taxes will be paying for these new plaid councillors added to the executive. .

no it will come from the magic money tree....

 

[Fullyplumped]

Councillors should get a decent wage for what they do. The pay, even at leadership level, is often very poor given the responsibility and profile and intrusion into one's family life. Arrangements that leave them with low incomes mean that a disproportionate number of retired people, and working-age people who are party hacks with careerist aspirations and prepared to put up with very low pay, become councillors. Most people with ability who need to hold down jobs and are decently paid are put off because they couldn't afford to give up time from their jobs to seek nomination, get elected, and do the work. I have been asked to seek nomination and would probably be quite a good councillor, but my commitments could not justify the financial sacrifice I'd have to make in doing a good job for a ward and serving on committees and all the rest of it for the money available, and that is after quite big increases recently. Those Councillors that try to make a full time job of it at more senior levels do so by taking on places on enterprise company boards, etc. which is not much better.

 

[niclas]

Good post - you can't be a f/t worker and a councillor without having a very, very sympathetic boss.
Out of our four Plaid councillors in Wrecsam, I'm the only one in paid employment and already realise that there is a compromise to be made between that work and my council work.
One of my colleagues will have to rely on her £12000 a year allowance as her only income (and pay her phone bills, quarterly newsletter etc out of that allowance).
If we're serious about local democracy, we should make proper allowances for those who make decisions on issues that affect our daily lives. A workers' councillor on a workers' wage?

 

[Socrates]

One of my colleagues will have to rely on her £12000 a year allowance as her only income (and pay her phone bills, quarterly newsletter etc out of that allowance).

£12,000 for a part time job - that's more than I earn working full time!
And you get quite a nice pension deal on the side. Also people should remember that the £12 grand that Comrade Niclas mentions is untaxed!

And let's not remember that when we are talking about the Council Executive, they are on a lot more whack than that my friend! Maybe we could cut down the pay of cabinet members to increase the pay of yr bogstandard councillor?

 

[Fez909]

£12,000 for a part time job - that's more than I earn working full time!
And you get quite a nice pension deal on the side. Also people should remember that the £12 grand that Comrade Niclas mentions is untaxed!

And let's not remember that when we are talking about the Council Executive, they are on a lot more whack than that my friend! Maybe we could cut down the pay of cabinet members to increase the pay of yr bogstandard councillor?

Your proposal in the final sentence here undermines the sentiment in the first. Either they get paid too much, enough, or too little. Which is it? If it's too much then we shouldn't be reducing MP's salaries to increase the already adequate councillors' ones, etc., etc.

For the record, how many hours does a councillor work on average? (I didn't realise it was a part-time post.)

 

[Fullyplumped]

Think about what a councillor ought to be doing. They should be keeping in touch with people in the ward and representing their interests in the council and representing the council on joint boards, partnerships, etc. They should be scrutinising reports from chief officers and making policy (as opposed to lettng officers make policy). They should be conducting surgeries and reading everything. They should be visiting schools, offices, and other premises from which the council does business.

Now there are no doubt many people who earn £12,000 pa full time equivalent who could cope with that and do a good job, dealing with a chief executive on £120,000 and Directors on £90,000 and Heads of service on £70,000. But with the best will in the world you need a mix including people who are able to earn substantially higher salaries. And the present system puts off such people, unless they are after a parliamentary seat or have some other career plan, and that puts the public at a disadvantage.

I think the way forward involves substantially fewer councillors, with term limits of say twelve years, and salaries of around £40,000 with the proviso they have no other paid work, including paid seats on boards.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

ah, bisto . . .

Probably the post [from loadsamoney] meant that if councillors wanted an increase in salary it should come from a cut in the salary of the cabinet rather than the public purse.

The key issue at at time when the Council is opposing "pay restraint" on its workforce, should the councillors be voting themselves more pay? Niclas' points may be valid -I've never been a politician. It's true that many councillors are not paid that high a wage, relatively speaking.

But I guess paying Council workers a decent wage was not something on the table in the negotiations between LibDems and Plaid, I guess Plaid were probably more concerned with the nationalist measures to be implemented by Cardiff Council than the food on a Council workers table . . .

Apparently we can be expecting another salary increase for councillors later this year according to the article above.

Two pay increases in less than 6 months? Most workers will be saying, I should be so lucky

 

[lewislewis]

Two pay increases in less than 6 months? Most workers will be saying, I should be so lucky

Just because other workers including council workers deserve a pay rise too doesn't mean we should oppose rises for ordinary councillors. Most councils don't have enough in their reserves to pay the staff more, it's up to how central government dispenses the cash.

 

[niclas]

£12,000 for a part time job - that's more than I earn working full time! And you get quite a nice pension deal on the side.

No you don't - councillors don't get pensions.

Also people should remember that the £12 grand that Comrade Niclas mentions is untaxed!

No, it's taxed and you pay National Insurance too.

And let's not remember that when we are talking about the Council Executive, they are on a lot more whack than that my friend! Maybe we could cut down the pay of cabinet members to increase the pay of yr bogstandard councillor?

On our council, the exec board member gets another £6000 a year. The council leader (i.e. a councillor not the chief exec) gets £45,000. The chief exec gets something like 90-100k.

 

[niclas]

But I guess paying Council workers a decent wage was not something on the table in the negotiations between LibDems and Plaid, I guess Plaid were probably more concerned with the nationalist measures to be implemented by Cardiff Council than the food on a Council workers table . . .

Pay settlements for council workers is done on a UK level, although New Labour is trying to impose "regional" pay on public sector workers (i.e. pay them less in places like Wales and the north of England).

In the same way, councillors' pay rises (and MPs/AMs for that matter) are decided by some central "independent" body.

Unfortunately, this kinda fucks up Udo's cheap jibe about Plaid in Cardiff. Never mind, there'll be another along in a minute

 

[chainsaw cat]

Councillors should get a decent wage for what they do. The pay, even at leadership level, is often very poor given the responsibility and profile and intrusion into one's family life. Arrangements that leave them with low incomes mean that a disproportionate number of retired people, and working-age people who are party hacks with careerist aspirations and prepared to put up with very low pay, become councillors. Most people with ability who need to hold down jobs and are decently paid are put off because they couldn't afford to give up time from their jobs to seek nomination, get elected, and do the work. I have been asked to seek nomination and would probably be quite a good councillor, but my commitments could not justify the financial sacrifice I'd have to make in doing a good job for a ward and serving on committees and all the rest of it for the money available, and that is after quite big increases recently. Those Councillors that try to make a full time job of it at more senior levels do so by taking on places on enterprise company boards, etc. which is not much better.

I never thought I'd post something like this but, yes, spot on.

My father in law has just been elected as a county councillor and a town councillor and had to turn down the (largely unpaid) job of Mayor as he'd have to take a massive cut, to the point where he could't really make ends meet.

he is a fierce bloke (think nasty Jack Russel) and exactly what the lazy, corrupt ruling group need to kick them out of their tired nepotistic ways.

But no, another well-off baby boomer will step in and keep the ship on course, i.e. backscratching, whitewashing and backhanding.

 

[Fullyplumped]

No you don't - councillors don't get pensions.

Are you sure?

Councillors in Scotland, England and Wales seem to be eligible to join the Local Government Pension Scheme - files setting out the circumstances are available here.

 

[niclas]

Are you sure?

Councillors in Scotland, England and Wales seem to be eligible to join the Local Government Pension Scheme - files setting out the circumstances are available here.

It seems I was wrong - it hasn't been mentioned as an option for new councillors here.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

It's worth pointing out that the unions were in negotiations with the council before the elections and before Plaid were on the scene. I'll fully expect Plaid councillors to support any industrial action that might come about and think we'd be in a good position to do that.

This would be unlikely, as Council workers are due to strike over attempts to implement a tougher sickness regime. According to today's Echo, part of the programme agreed between LibDem and Plaid is to cut the sickness rate. So it sounds like business as usual.

 

[lewislewis]

Again, i'm not convinced that Neil McEvoy would ever side against the unions, he is a trade unionist himself. Let's wait and see how it pans out.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Again, i'm not convinced that Neil McEvoy would ever side against the unions, he is a trade unionist himself. Let's wait and see how it pans out.

Hopefully, you are right. But he will be in a difficult position given the agreement that he has signed, and as deputy-leader of Cardiff Council. Let's wait and see how it pans out!

Many parents will be wondering why Plaid politicians will be voting to save a school in West Cardiff (where all their councillors are based) but voting to close schools in other areas of Cardiff.