Pay and conditions in film and TV

[danny la rouge]

Monte raised this in the course of another discussion, but I thought it deserved its own thread.

People generally seem unaware that in film and TV only a very, very few are earning the sums they imagine.

My eldest daughter works in TV production. She is contracted for 40 hours a week but routinely works longer hours. When she visits us of an evening she is often working at that job on the sofa while we watch TV. As well as being short term contacts, her wage is well below the national average, and in order to pay bills she does a weekend job as well, bartending at a nightclub. This is someone who has had her name on TV credits.

Her observation is that the industry just seems to expect everyone to come from wealthy families. However, like my daughter, of course not everyone does.

She is doing a job she wants to do, and enjoys doing it. She has always wanted to work in TV production. She says she’s lucky to have a job because it’s so competitive. But she has also expressed doubts as to how financially sustainable it is for her as a career. Especially given how tired she is all the time.

I really don’t think the public at large realise this.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Any career that people aspire to do seem to pay for shit as the industry can get away with it.

 

[lazythursday]

Monte raised this in the course of another discussion, but I thought it deserved its own thread.

People generally seem unaware that in film and TV only a very, very few are earning the sums they imagine.

My eldest daughter works in TV production. She is contracted for 40 hours a week but routinely works longer hours. When she visits us of an evening she is often working at that job on the sofa while we watch TV. As well as being short term contacts, her wage is well below the national average, and in order to pay bills she does a weekend job as well, bartending at a nightclub. This is someone who has had her name on TV credits.

Her observation is that the industry just seems to expect everyone to come from wealthy families. However, like my daughter, of course not everyone does.

She is doing a job she wants to do, and enjoys doing it. She has always wanted to work in TV production. She says she’s lucky to have a job because it’s so competitive. But she has also expressed doubts as to how financially sustainable it is for her as a career. Especially given how tired she is all the time.

I really don’t think the public at large realise this.

I think it's the same in the arts, and museums/heritage and much of the environmental sector (and other jobs at the sexier end of the third sector). It's highly competitive and you're expected to live off kudos somehow.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think it's the same in the arts, and museums/heritage and much of the environmental sector (and other jobs at the sexier end of the third sector). It's highly competitive and you're expected to live off kudos somehow.

Yup.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Games design and VFX is the same. I worry about our students going into that industry.

Crunch is omnipresent and job security an urban legend.

 

[Elpenor]

I did the payroll for a london based visual fx / special fx company which did Hollywood films and yes a huge amount of short term contracts, wasn’t unusual to see people on 4 or 5 different short term contracts within a year, presumably one contract per film?

 

[Sue]

A good friend (we shared a flat for years) is an actor and through her I know lots of actors. She was in West End hit play some years ago (it won a load of awards) and even though it paid Equity rates, those are not great either.

NEW Equity-ITC agreement 2024-27

Performers, stage management & choreographers to see pay rise 5% every year for three years on new Equity-ITC agreement

www.equity.org.uk

She was in another West End show where they were paying Equity rates but trying to pay the actors less than they were entitled to as they misrepresented the number of seats in the theatre (there are different pay rate bands depending on the theatre size). They went to Equity who were pretty good and sorted it out. A lot of smaller shows seem to offer profit sharing. Except of course there never seems to be any profit.

Like every actor I know, she does reception/clerical/whatever temp work between gigs so when all the acting and temp work disappeared during Covid, she was really screwed financially.

She's not from money and at a time when colour blind casting is still pretty rare, she has the added 'disadvantage' of not being white.

Most of her friends are in the same boat. And as one of them said to me, 'People applaud these posh actors when they play working class. As a mixed race, working class bloke from South London, they're not exactly banging down my door and offering me parts playing posh people. Or even parts playing working class blokes from South London.'

I genuinely don't know how they keep doing it tbh.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

When I taught jobcentre funded courses we would tell our learners to check an acting website (i think it was Equity's forum or something) for job listing as it was one of the best resources for reliable short term quick cash jobs.

 

[Monte]

Monte raised this in the course of another discussion, but I thought it deserved its own thread.

People generally seem unaware that in film and TV only a very, very few are earning the sums they imagine.

My eldest daughter works in TV production. She is contracted for 40 hours a week but routinely works longer hours. When she visits us of an evening she is often working at that job on the sofa while we watch TV. As well as being short term contacts, her wage is well below the national average, and in order to pay bills she does a weekend job as well, bartending at a nightclub. This is someone who has had her name on TV credits.

Her observation is that the industry just seems to expect everyone to come from wealthy families. However, like my daughter, of course not everyone does.

She is doing a job she wants to do, and enjoys doing it. She has always wanted to work in TV production. She says she’s lucky to have a job because it’s so competitive. But she has also expressed doubts as to how financially sustainable it is for her as a career. Especially given how tired she is all the time.

I really don’t think the public at large realise this.

Unpaid interns is common on low budget TV.
20 somethings straight out of college made to work 12 hours a day as runners ''to get valuable experience'' in the industry. 'Who knows, there may be a paid job in the future'.
Never is of course as the supply of desperate 20 somethings straight out of college never dries up.

 

[shakespearegirl]

The entry level jobs in creative industries pay low wages, but they do tend to go up quite quickly if you advance.

The culture of presenteeism and ridiculously long hours is awful and leads to burnout. It’s also not family friendly so lots of women leave when they have kids.

Freelancing used to be great money and fairly easy to get continuos work if you were good. IR35, Brexit and Covid have totally fucked creative industries, so many of my friends have left after an awful few years of hardly any work, massive budget squeezes and unrealistic expectations.

I’m so glad I’m fully out of it now, and look back and think why did I devote so much of my life to it, at the expense of health and relationships.

That said, it was great fun at times, travelled the world, made some amazing friends and pretty good money while the going was good!

Unpaid internships are quite rightly illegal and totally immoral.

 

[shakespearegirl]

I did the payroll for a london based visual fx / special fx company which did Hollywood films and yes a huge amount of short term contracts, wasn’t unusual to see people on 4 or 5 different short term contracts within a year, presumably one contract per film?

Yes, that’s pretty standard.

If the creative industries in general exploit and overwork people, VFX companies on features are the worst offenders. MrShakes worked for one of the biggest ones.

Basically they all bid super low and/or get beaten down by the studios and they then pass that pressure onto the crew. There’s also a lot of outsourcing to Indian head office, as they’ve bought a lot of the big companies up, the standard of work produced is low and they then have to fix it in the more mature studios in the UK/US - more budget pressure!

 

[shakespearegirl]

Malcolm was the brother of a very close friend of mine, and we used to kick about in London together, really tragic case of overwork and abuse in VFX

Montreal man's suicide sheds light on toxic workplaces in Canada's visual effects sector

For Malcolm Angell, 80-hour workweeks were common and he was regularly humiliated by his bosses, colleagues say. If he quit, he would have to pay a $35,000 penalty

nationalpost.com

 

[Monte]

Unpaid internships are quite rightly illegal and totally immoral.

Maybe things have changed but 10 years ago when I worked on the first series of The Detectorists there were a few unpaid workers.

 

[StoneRoad]

I think it's the same in the arts, and museums/heritage and much of the environmental sector (and other jobs at the sexier end of the third sector). It's highly competitive and you're expected to live off kudos somehow.

I can only speak for a small part of the museum/heritage sector but in the bits I'm sort of familiar with, the pay is very basic for lower roles - and some organisations rely on volunteers even quite a long way up the food chain.
Salary etc can be good for a lot of top level posts, but for most of those you need masses of [relevant] experience or some very specific qualifications.
I'm certainly not in the field I work in to make a fortune !

 

[shakespearegirl]

Maybe things have changed but 10 years ago when I worked on the first series of The Detectorists there were a few unpaid workers.

It’s definitely tightened up, I’m sure it still happens though.

Some guidance on work experience/internships from HMRC, all media related!

Work experience - examples​

These are for illustrative purposes only. Ultimately only a court or tribunal can decide if someone is entitled to the minimum wage in a given set of circumstances.

Examples of workers who are entitled to the minimum wage​

Example 1: internship with an oral agreement​

Lucas takes up an internship at a newspaper business. He agrees orally with the editor that he will work personally for 4 days a week from 9am to 5pm and will undertake research activities as directed. He receives some payment for working the agreed hours.

Lucas has made an oral contract with the editor and should be paid at least the minimum wage.

A contract can be oral or implied as well as written.

Example 2: ‘unpaid intern’ with a promise of paid work​

Amanda applies for a position at a record company. She is told that for 3 months she will be paid ‘expenses only’ and is referred to as an ‘unpaid intern’. However, as part of her agreement with the company, it is promised that at the end of her ‘internship’ she will be taken ‘on the books’ and paid above the minimum wage.

Amanda should be paid at least the minimum wage for the whole time she spends at the record company.

Whether someone is a worker does not depend on what job title they are given. For example, calling someone an ‘unpaid intern’ or ‘volunteer’ does not prevent them from qualifying for the minimum wage if they are really a worker. The promise of paid work is a form of reward for work undertaken.

Example 3: work experience with a financial reward​

David successfully applies for a work experience position in a small graphic design company, after seeing an advert offering £50 ‘travel expenses’ for each week. He receives these ‘travel expenses’ despite walking to work.

David should be paid at least the minimum wage.

Paying a financial reward which is more than paying back genuine ‘out-of-pocket’ expenses is evidence that David is a worker for minimum wage purposes.

Example 4: signed agreement to ‘unpaid’ work with a reward​

Ben takes up an acting role in a short film. He signs a form agreeing to work unpaid. However he is promised a small percentage of any future profits, a DVD copy of the film and tickets to the company’s releases for the rest of the year, but no salary.

Ben should be paid at least the minimum wage.

An individual cannot sign away their rights to the minimum wage. Entitlement to the minimum wage depends on whether they are a worker. Ben isn’t a volunteer because he will get a reward for the work he does - the fact that no cash changes hands is irrelevant as benefits in kind that have a monetary value count as a reward.

 

[Thora]

I used to work for someone who was a fashion magazine editor - apparently the accepted career structure at this place was you did some months of unpaid 'work experience' in the office cupboard (steaming & organising clothes) while mummy & daddy paid your rent on a London flat and living expenses in order to prove your dedication and get a paid job. No one to pay your living expenses = not the right kind of person to get a proper job there.

 

[krtek a houby]

Most people I knew working in the industry were floor staff, kitchen staff, porters, posties, drivers, IT, assistants, runners and basically staff who weren't the talent. I knew some part timers and freelancers as well.

All were badly paid, some harassed, some not in unions and some who had to repeatedly chase their wages.

This applied across the "entertainment" industry in Ireland and in the UK.

It was shit back then, and obviously it's still a shit deal now.