NASA says it will get astronauts to the Moon by 2024

[Wookey]

Whitey's (back) on the Moon.

That's a good point, has there ever been a non-white fumin bean on the Moon??

 

[ferrelhadley]

And that horse trading will necessarily involve the cancellation/shelving of other projects. Is putting someone on the Moon again the best use of NASA's increasingly limited resources?

Since we are putting people round the Moon in 2022 and 2024. What is you brilliant plan as you learn all about NASAs budget and plans by being corrected on the shite you spout.
Lets remind ourselves you were warbling about Apollo era getting 5% of the Federal budget blah blah blah, while the current range of budget has already built most of the kit needed (barring the cryogenic upper stage upgrade and a lander)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Since we are putting people round the Moon in 2022 and 2024. What is you brilliant plan as you learn all about NASAs budget and plans by being corrected on the shite you spout.
Lets remind ourselves you were warbling about Apollo era getting 5% of the Federal budget blah blah blah, while the current range of budget has already built most of the kit needed (barring the cryogenic upper stage upgrade and a lander)

Nah, can't be arsed with you, I'm afraid. Given the choice between info from New Scientist and info from you, I'll go with NS.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Nah, can't be arsed

In other words you have been caught out spouting shite.

 

[Crispy]

Oops wrong thread

 

[Yossarian]

"Good news Mr. Trump, we can get people on the moon by the end of your second term, but you will definitely have to increase our budget."

"Uhhh..."

"And we'll have to ask the Europeans for help."

"Get the fuck out of my office."

Astronauts on the Moon in 2024? US Can't Do It Alone, NASA Chief Says

 

[littlebabyjesus]

In other words you have been caught out spouting shite.

No I just don't like your posting style. Sorry you didn't get the GSH reference. I shouldn't assume people will get it. I'll engage briefly again to clarify, but it's not a competition for me here. That NS article was mainly about how this thing gets funded. And my own concern is about what else gets pushed back to push this forward to satisfy the egos of politicians. The GSH reference was intended as a dig at politicians rather than space exploration per se.

 

[Yossarian]

That's a good point, has there ever been a non-white fumin bean on the Moon??

Nope - the 12 men to go to the moon were a very homogenous group, as I guess you'd expect from an American government program 50 years ago - all white men between the ages of 36 and 47 and probably all Protestant. All but one of them was a former Boy Scout, and I think there was only one that didn't serve in the Navy or Air Force.

I never knew Buzz Aldrin started his moon visit by reading the Bible and giving himself Communion:

How Buzz Aldrin's communion on the moon was hushed up | Matthew Cresswell

 

[ferrelhadley]

No I just don't like your posting style. Sorry you didn't get the GSH reference.

Dunning Kruger effect.
You came on line to searingly assume you knew more than the NASA administrator about the state of current human space flight. Your vanity has meant that you kept digging yourself deeper with nonsense about NASA needing 5% of the US Federal Budget and not having a human rated flight system in budget (it has 3 separate launch vehicles and space craft for human space flight due to fly in the next 18 months, Orion, Dragon 2 and CST 100 Starliner on the SLS, Falcon 9 Block 5 and Atlas V*).

You wanted attention and cheap point scoring.
Now you have learnt that NASA has the physical rockets under construction for lunar fly bys in about 3 years (though slippages are likely) and the 2024 date would need an already planned small upgrade to the cryogenic upper stage and a small lander system to close the final few hundred kilometers to the lunar surface.

For those who are interested (obviously some are only interested in their opinions not any data) the Dragon 2 has already made it to the ISS uncrewed and is scheduled for mid year flight with only and only small slippages likely. CST100 Starliner will only likely fly uncrewed later this year and has a significant technical issue they are working on so more slippages likely, but the launch system is very reliable and flies regular for defence contracts. Orion flew to space uncrewed in 2014 and is likely all but ready, the risks to it are its launch system, SLS so some more slippage is kind of expected here. But NASA should be "return to flight" by July\August at the latest and have all three in operation by late 2020 or 2021.

 

[editor]

Interesting stuff

NASA is working right now to send American astronauts to the surface of the Moon in five years, and the agency has its sights set on a place no humans have ever gone before: the lunar South Pole.



Water is a critical resource for long-term exploration, and that’s one of the main reasons NASA will send astronauts to the Moon’s South Pole by 2024. Water is a necessity for furthering human exploration because it could potentially be used for drinking, cooling equipment, breathing and making rocket fuel for missions farther into the solar system. The experience NASA gains on the Moon, including using lunar natural resources, will be used to help prepare the agency to send astronauts to Mars.



“We know the South Pole region contains ice and may be rich in other resources based on our observations from orbit, but, otherwise, it’s a completely unexplored world,” said Steven Clarke, deputy associate administrator of the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. “The South Pole is far from the Apollo landing sites clustered around the equator, so it will offer us a new challenge and a new environment to explore as we build our capabilities to travel farther into space.”



The South Pole is also a good target for a future human landing because robotically, it’s the most thoroughly investigated region on the Moon.

Moon’s South Pole in NASA’s Landing Sites

 

[ferrelhadley]

The SLS launch system is in a lot of political trouble. But it can likely make a CIS Lunar flight by 2022 as the capsule has been partially tested and rocket is close to completion, even if it has slipped again.
A lander is another kettle of fish but in theory is a very simple piece of equipment compared to anything that has to deal with the atmosphere.

The rocket has already been built and is due to fly next year unmanned, fly round the moon in 2022 and has a mission for a 30 day human fly by of the moon slotted for 2024 that the NASA chief, Jim Bridenstine was suggesting could be repurposed. All that is missing is, as I said, "A lander is another kettle of fish but in theory is a very simple piece of equipment compared to anything that has to deal with the atmosphere." The risks are slippages in the existing hardware that has been developed that can carry out this mission and his launch dates.

Space Launch System - Wikipedia

and


Exploration Mission-3 - Wikipedia

Well surprisingly they have found the money for this, though unsurprisingly, as I said they are planning to re-purpose SLS missions.

NASA's 'Artemis' program eyes $1.6 billion for 2024 moon landing

But the funding is to come from an education program so it has zero chance of passing Congress in its current form. This very likely links to the Blue Origin announcement earlier, which I had suggested was a lobbying bid, now we know what it was lobbying for. But of note that rather than the 5% of US GDP some were trying to claim this would cost the current proposal is about $1.6 billion on top of current spending. All that is required is a simple piece of human spaceflight hardware to get from LOP Gateway to the surface and back. Hopefully none of the others will try to claim this is a "one way mission".

But in summary, SLS is slipping badly so the dates are unlikely. The costs are relatively modest but the money currently does not exist. Its all just part of the usual games on The Hill.

 

[ferrelhadley]

NASA is moving ahead with plans to send astronauts back to the moon by 2024, awarding a $375 million contract to commercially develop the first module for a mini space station in lunar orbit that will serve as a staging base for astronauts descending to the surface, the agency announced Thursday

Speaking at the Florida Institute of Technology in Melbourne, Florida, NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine also said NASA planners expect to select a core group of astronauts, perhaps about a dozen or so, as early as this summer to begin generic training for the accelerated Artemis moon program.

"As far as the astronaut selection for who is going to be the first woman or the next man on the surface of the moon, if we have a two-person lander it could be two women," Bridenstine told reporters. "We don't know, we haven't picked yet.

The third flight of the SLS will carry astronauts to the moon for a landing in 2024. By that point, a small space station, known as Gateway, must be in orbit around the moon, along with a landing vehicle of some sort to carry the Orion crew to the moon's surface. NASA expects to award contracts for the lander by around Oct. 1.

NASA awards moon station contract, unveils more details of Artemis program

The usual caveats apply in terms of SLS launch schedule and prising the $1.5 billion this project will cost out of congress. But there is more and more flesh on the wild eyed bones.

 

[editor]

Here's some groovy landers

These Are the Private Lunar Landers Taking NASA Science to the Moon

 

[Yossarian]

4 years later: "Sir, we have the plans ready for the moon mission, you need to sign off on them."

"Oh yeah, the moon thing - put it on my desk, I'll take a look at it later. Wait, let's make it Mars - let's send this thing to Mars next year. No, I don't know how much you'd have to change to send it to Mars, I thought that was your fucking job."

Holy shit, I was right - except it was 2 months later that Trump got bored of the moon, not four years.



Also, the moon is apparently part of Mars now.

 

[tim]

I was four last time this was done and found it really boring. The low points were golf in the moon.



And Moon the Musical



It's a really boring place with little to see or do.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Lets go through this again.
The US has been building a super heavy class launch system since 2005. It got rebranded from Ares V to Space Launch System after Obama failed to get it cancelled due to the Senate.
Back in 2011 what was known as Exploration Mission 1 was supposed to launch in 2017 with a unmanned vessel round the Moon.
In 2023 Exploration Mission 2 was supposed to send humans round the Moon but not land.
In 2024 Exploration Mission 3 was supposed to orbit the Moon and place the first part of the lunar space station in orbit.
What changed was like Obama Trump could not cancel the program and the SLS had slipped a few years.
Now
Artemis 1 is supposed to launch in 2020 with a unmanned vessel round the Moon.
In 2023 Artemis 2 is supposed to send humans round the Moon but not land.
In 2024 Artemis 3 is supposed to orbit the Moon but now it will have the lander slotted for Explorer Mission 4 with it.
The Lunar Orbital Gateway spacestation pieces that the Explorer Missions were supposed to move are now being moved by private launch systems. Explorer Mission 1 was supposed to use a re-purposed cryogenic upper stage. But Boeing is years late. This means its launching in 2020 not 2017.
The other missions are not affected by the slip in Explorer Mission 1\Artemis 1 (yet).

Trumps dribbling at fuck all o'clock on twitter are irrelevant.

Boeing's "this is too hard we cant make the new deadline" has become "we have space for a second shift" after the NASA administrator publicly speculated about placing the SLS flights out to tender. So end 2020 is a credible date for Artemis 1.
The contract has been issued for the first parts of the Lunar Orbital Gateway and the contracts for a flight are in the air.

Barring a catastrophic economic emergency.
A government shut down freezing NASA's budget for a while.
A catastrophic hull loss, the US will have a human capable capsule round the Moon by the end of next year (likely) or the year after (very likely).
It will have human round the Moon by 2023 in the likely to very likely range.
It will have humans read to land on the Moon in the 2024-2026 time frame.

 

[Crispy]

It will have humans read to land on the Moon in the 2024-2026 time frame.

Only if they get an extra $6-8bn per year

 

[ferrelhadley]

Only if they get an extra $6-8bn per year

Please cite your source.

The White House did not agree to ask for "new" money for the accelerated lunar landing program. Instead, the additional $1.6 billion will be derived from "offsets" in other areas of the federal budget. Bridenstine said during the call that he had not been briefed on what those budgetary offsets would be. However, three sources told Ars that, as of Monday, the White House plans to pay the additional $1.6 billion for the lunar program by cutting the Pell Grant Reserve Fund, which helps low-income students pay for college.

NASA reveals funding needed for Moon program, says it will be named Artemis

Artemis requires a billion and an bit of additional spending. Its up to the bargaining as to where it comes from.

 

[Yossarian]

Trump's space ambitions will hopefully become irrelevant by the end of 2020 - Bernie Sanders might still make funds available, but he definitely won't be doing so at the expense of education for low-income students.

"I am supportive of NASA not only because of the excitement of space exploration, but because of all the additional side benefits we receive from research in that area. Sometimes, and frankly I don't remember all of those votes, one is put in a position of having to make very very difficult choices about whether you vote to provide food for hungry kids or health care for people who have none and other programs. But, in general, I do support increasing funding for NASA.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Trump's space ambitions will hopefully become irrelevant

Holy shit, I was right - except it was 2 months later that Trump got bored of the moon, not four years.

There is no arguing with this level of in depth knowledge.

 

[Yossarian]

There is no arguing with this level of in depth knowledge.

Hey, a post that's not TL: DR!

 

[Crispy]

Please cite your source.
.

And, actually, Eric's Ars Technica article you linked to. 1.6 this year, 6-8 ongoing. Only now that bridenstin says it publicly.

 

[isvicthere?]

People will start saying the following again...

"They can put a man on the Moon, but they can't (insert petty grievance)."

 

[Yossarian]

People will start saying the following again...

"They can put a man on the Moon, but they can't (insert petty grievance)."

2028, after Jordanian rebels refuse to let former UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon into the capital for peace talks: "They can put a man on the moon, but they can't put a Moon in Amman."

 

[ferrelhadley]

2028, after Jordanian rebels refuse to let former UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon into the capital for peace talks: "They can put a man on the moon, but they can't put a Moon in Amman."

Very Urban 75.

 

[krtek a houby]

That's a good point, has there ever been a non-white fumin bean on the Moon??

Or is mankind the only sentient beings that have visited our satellite?

 

[8ball]

2028, after Jordanian rebels refuse to let former UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon into the capital for peace talks: "They can put a man on the moon, but they can't put a Moon in Amman."

How long were you working on that for?

 

[isvicthere?]

2028, after Jordanian rebels refuse to let former UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon into the capital for peace talks: "They can put a man on the moon, but they can't put a Moon in Amman."

 

[Pickman's model]

2028, after Jordanian rebels refuse to let former UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon into the capital for peace talks: "They can put a man on the moon, but they can't put a Moon in Amman."

*post of the month*

 

[editor]

Look at the size of this thing