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Moving to mirrorless: Fuji xe-2 or Olympus omd em10

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kropotkin

libcom
So after three years of hardly taking my camera out of the cupboard post having kids, I've decided that it is all just a depreciating asset. I have over a grand tied up in Canon DSLR body and lenses, and so have decided to sell it all and move to something more portable and less intrusive.

I don't manage to find time now to lug all the equipment around. I want a camera that is smaller and still delivers excellent images. I think if I have something that is easier and less heavy to carry about with me I'd be more likely to use it. I'd ideally like an interchangeable lens system, so that if in the future I have more time I can then expand lens collections etc.

I see the options in my price range as

Interchangeable:
OMD em10
Fuji x-e2

Fixed:
Sony rx100mark3

Can anyone advise?
 
Fuji lens system, while very good, seems to average slightly more expensive than m43 when you compare equivalent products. Could be wrong and there's not much in it, but that's my impression anyhow.

I don't think the Fuji range lacks anything important now though, except maybe exotica like macro-zooms which m43 doesn't have either, and both systems have plenty of high quality options.

I'm contemplating trading in all my Nikon stuff for much the same reasons, the only camera I regularly use now is my X20, but still can't make up my mind between Fuji x-series and M43 (probably Olympus OMD)

I really don't like the Sony ergonomics if you're going fixed, I'd much prefer Fuji x20 or x100 (if you can live with fixed focal length) or GRD. I think an x200 is due pretty soon so there might be some bargains to be had.
 
Last edited:
kropotkin said:
So after three years of hardly taking my camera out of the cupboard post having kids, I've decided that it is all just a depreciating asset. I have over a grand tied up in Canon DSLR body and lenses, and so have decided to sell it all and move to something more portable and less intrusive.

I don't manage to find time now to lug all the equipment around. I want a camera that is smaller and still delivers excellent images. I think if I have something that is easier and less heavy to carry about with me I'd be more likely to use it. I'd ideally like an interchangeable lens system, so that if in the future I have more time I can then expand lens collections etc.

I see the options in my price range as

Interchangeable:
OMD em10
Fuji x-e2

Fixed:
Sony rx100mark3

Can anyone advise?
Click to expand...

Recently found this site:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings

I wouldn't buy a new camera now without first checking out the sensor rating on the site.
 
At least consider a fixed lens camera. The Ricoh GR has a bigger sensor than 4/3 cameras combined with a body that is small enough to fit in a trouser pocket. The image quality is excellent. There is a crop setting option at the taking stage and a wide-angle attachable lens option so it is more flexible than appears at first.
 
Hocus Eye. said:
At least consider a fixed lens camera. The Ricoh GR has a bigger sensor than 4/3 cameras combined with a body that is small enough to fit in a trouser pocket. The image quality is excellent. There is a crop setting option at the taking stage and a wide-angle attachable lens option so it is more flexible than appears at first.
Click to expand...
And I also love my GR, which I use more than any other camera. :)
 
I would tend to err more towards m43 than Fuji even if I hadn't already invested in it, simply because it's an open standard with two big companies actively making bodies and lenses for it, as well as third parties, though not as much as I'd like. You also have the option of different body sizes using the same lenses for different circumstances.

The OMD is probably still the best buy right now though you might also look at the GX7 if you like the rangefinder style stuff.
 
editor said:
I prefer the EVF on my Olympus EM1 to an optical one. It's that good.
Click to expand...
Even in the bright sun? Granted that the new OMD has a better EVF than my g5, but it's not absurdly better, and I find it's just a vague indication of where I'm pointing the camera in any decent daylight.

There is a lot of personal preference here really. One of the things I like about the GR is that the clip on OVF (which I got free) is really really good - huge and clear. Saves the battery too.
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Even in the bright sun? Granted that the new OMD has a better EVF than my g5, but it's not absurdly better, and I find it's just a vague indication of where I'm pointing the camera in any decent daylight.

There is a lot of personal preference here really. One of the things I like about the GR is that the clip on OVF (which I got free) is really really good - huge and clear. Saves the battery too.
Click to expand...
It works for me - mind you it is substantially better than the EVF on the original OM-D - and the advantages of a decent EVF in low light are pretty huge.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Fuji lens system, while very good, seems to average slightly more expensive than m43 when you compare equivalent products. Could be wrong and there's not much in it, but that's my impression anyhow.
Click to expand...

It certainly used to be the case that Fuji lenses were "premium" because they made relatively fewer than most other producers (so far fewer economies of scale than the likes of Canon, Nikon or Pentax, for example), which you can see by their comparable prices for their medium-format rangefinder lenses compared to the same size and speed of lens for a Mamiya RZ (usually a 15-20% premium), plus they do their patented "electron beam-coating" process on the majority of their lenses (a selling point if you're an old fart who remembers how much less flarey Fuji's lenses were compared to a lot of their competitors in the '80s and '90s)
 
editor said:
It works for me - mind you it is substantially better than the EVF on the original OM-D - and the advantages of a decent EVF in low light are pretty huge.
Click to expand...
They do excel in low light. Somebody who takes a lot of pics at, say, gigs, would be really well served by a m43 system with one of the fast primes. Not only do you have the EVF and the speed but the DoF actually works in your favour there - 1.4 is too narrow for proper portraits, but double that to effective f2.8 DoF and it's perfect.
 
I actually was just in a camera store looking at a used XE 1. They had a couple of them. Coming back and reading the reviews, the comments made are that the colors produced by the camera are good for people/portrait, but flat if taking photos of things. Looking up the sensor ratings of any listed Fuji, they all rank near the bottom of the heap.

Think I'll keep looking.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
Why not?
Click to expand...
Because it's the ultimate pixel-peeping website. That's what it's for, I mean no criticism. But it doesn't take anything else into account, and tbh pixel-peeping quality is practically the least important factor nowadays, given that almost any system you care to name will produce high quality images.
 
Given that a camera purchase, plus lenses these days probably means an outlay of a lot of money, I think it makes sense to do a lot of homework before laying out the money.

Reading up on DxO Labs, they appear to be a rigorous and unbiased testing lab, and their work helps cast light on the multitude of camera models that have proliferated, imo, as an attempt to keep consumers in the dark.

From their 'about' page:

  • All measurements are performed on straight-from-camera RAW files, the only reliable way to evaluate intrinsic hardware performance. Read more.
  • All lenses are tested on every camera on which they can be mounted. Read more about how camera sensors impact the optical performance of lenses.
  • Lenses and cameras are tested for their full range of possible settings such as focal length, aperture, exposure time, ISO speed, white balance, etc.
  • To ensure highest precision and reliability, measurements are performed at DxO Labs’ dedicated testing laboratories, where conditions are controlled as in standard metrology labs. Read more.
  • To ensure that measurements for all lenses and cameras can be reliably compared, we have developed detailed protocols that are systematically repeated for all equipment we test. These protocols are detailed on the site so that anyone interested in performing measurements can do so. Read more.
  • We test commercial products: in other words, we buy or rent lenses and cameras from the very same retailers that consumers use. When we do test pre-production models (when commercial products are not yet available), we clearly indicate this on our site, and we retest those models when they become commercially available.
  • Finally, DxOMark has no ties to or interests of any sort with camera or lens manufacturers, which means that we are completely independent from them.
Click to expand...

  • Looks pretty good to me.

  • I certainly have no vested interest here; but it makes sense for purchasers to check out sites like this and form their own conclusions. It costs maybe half an hour of time, and well worth it, given the investment that a good camera represents.
 
Their measurements highlight differences in exceptional fringe cases of use of any lens or camera, and are deceptive in terms of actual use. They don't pay any attention to anything apart from their stated parameters.

They are basically irrelevant when it comes to photography, unless you're in a specialised industry. Gross image quality issues will be apparent from any other comparison.
 
It's usually a good idea with standardized testing to pay attention only to the variables within the stated parameters. :)

You're entitled to your opinion, but Dx0 Mark sensor ratings get referred to all over the various media that deals with photography, and appear to be held in relatively high regard by many commentators.

But if people would prefer to make their purchase based only on a couple of anecdotal stories, they're certainly welcome to do so. :)
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
It's usually a good idea with standardized testing to pay attention only to the variables within the stated parameters. :)

You're entitled to your opinion, but Dx0 Mark sensor ratings get referred to all over the various media that deals with photography, and appears to be held in relatively high regard by many commentators.

But if people would prefer to make their purchase based only on a couple of anecdotal stories, they're certainly welcome to do so. :)
Click to expand...
Because the internet is full of pixel-peepers. It's a nice comfortable metric, nothing messy like "yeah but is this actually a good camera to take photos with?"

The Canon 5D MkIII will blow the shit out of the OM-D on DxOMark. Because obviously. That means it's a better camera?
 
But.... if you take the time to check out the site, you'll become aware that their comparisons are based on more than just the number of pixels.

Are we actually arguing about whether or not camera purchasers should check out a testing site?

My idea is this: let people visit the site and make up their own minds. What do you think? :)
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Because the internet is full of pixel-peepers. It's a nice comfortable metric, nothing messy like "yeah but is this actually a good camera to take photos with?"

The Canon 5D MkIII will blow the shit out of the OM-D on DxOMark. Because obviously. That means it's a better camera?
Click to expand...
Some of the differences are so subtle that a lot of people would be hard pressed to see the difference in regular shooting, even at high ISOs e.g.:

del.jpg

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1/16
 
editor said:
Some of the differences are so subtle that a lot of people would be hard pressed to see the difference in regular shooting, even at high ISOs e.g.:

View attachment 58418

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1/16
Click to expand...
I really can't tell the difference with loads of this shit. I've seen so many internet pieces saying "well X is clearly superior to Y at ISO Z here" and I look at the images and think "wait no what these just look exactly the same and they're 100% crops as well".

I mean really, who the fuck cares about the difference between the two shots above.
 
Reading the initial reviews on the cameras I've been shooting with - Canon s90 and 110 point and shoot - one would conclude that they were the best thing since sliced bread. And in fairness, they have some good features for point and shoot cameras.

But I later became aware that these Canons have miniscule sensors; this was consonant with my general unhappiness with the image quality, especially in certain shooting situations.

Recently finding the DxO ratings, sure enough - the sensors in these cameras are near the bottom, which jibes with my impression of the IQ of the cameras.

It's the prime motivator for me now looking for a decent used DSLR.
 
When I'm deciding whether to take out my GR or my OM-D, the relative sensor sizes are the last thing on my mind.
 
Johnny Canuck3 said:
Reading the initial reviews on the cameras I've been shooting with - Canon s90 and 110 point and shoot - one would conclude that they were the best thing since sliced bread. And in fairness, they have some good features for point and shoot cameras.

But I later became aware that these Canons have miniscule sensors; this was consonant with my general unhappiness with the image quality, especially in certain shooting situations.

Recently finding the DxO ratings, sure enough - the sensors in these cameras are near the bottom, which jibes with my impression of the IQ of the cameras.

It's the prime motivator for me now looking for a decent used DSLR.
Click to expand...
You previously thought that a compact would have the same sensor as a DSLR? :hmm:
 
No, I didn't think that ..... but I didn't realize just how small the Canon sensors were, even in comparison to other point and shoot cameras.
 
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