MI6 spent a fortune bribing Spanish top brass to keep Spain out of WW2

[JHE]

MI6 spent the present-day equivalent of more than $200m bribing senior Spanish military officers, ship owners and other agents to keep Spain out of the second world war, files released today disclose.

More and more money was delivered, mainly via a Swiss bank account in New York, as Sir Samuel Hoare, Britain's ambassador in Madrid, warned London that unless it was paid, there was a real and immediate danger of Spain abandoning its neutrality and of Franco joining forces with Nazi Germany.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/mi6-spain-200m-bribes-ww2

A very interesting revelation, but whether this dosh really had any effect is another matter. I don't know.

Paul Preston's account of Spain not joining, in his biography of Franco, is that though Franco was for a long time convinced that the Axis would win and was keen to join in, he never got the deal he wanted. He wanted an agreement that, following an Axis victory, Spain would have a free hand to carve out a new north African empire (taking territory from France, of course). Hitler was unimpressed by the squeaky little Galician general and didn't offer what was demanded. Franco was also worried (groundlessly or not, I really don't know) that if Spain, or Germany with Spanish help, took Gibraltar, Britain would attack and seize some part of the Canary Islands.

 

[Bakunin]

It's covered pretty well by Ben Macintyre in 'Operation Mincemeat.'

 

[gosub]

I can't remember where I read Hitler being unimpressed with Franco 's willingness to to bomb the factories in the opposing factions areas telling him Spain would need them afterwards, as it was worked out well for Franco, with a load of fucked off Spainiards vainly hoping Spain would be liberated in 45.
From an allied point of view the sub pens at La Rochelle did enough damage and would have made holding Gib v hard which meant losing Suez and probably the war so money well spent

 

[SpookyFrank]

Another vote for 'money well spent' I reckon. Losing Gibraltar alone would've been a catastrophe for the allies.

 

[dylanredefined]

Money well spent pity they didn't roll them up post 45 ,but, I guess everyone was tired of war at that point.

 

[butchersapron]

PP commemorating the blue division the other day btw

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Money well spent pity they didn't roll them up post 45 ,but, I guess everyone was tired of war at that point.

Nothing to do with Franco presenting himself as a bulwark against communism, then?

 

[JimW]

Money well spent pity they didn't roll them up post 45 ,but, I guess everyone was tired of war at that point.

Who was that US general who was all for pushing on to Moscow? patton?

 

[butchersapron]

Money well spent pity they didn't roll them up post 45 ,but, I guess everyone was tired of war at that point.

Roll who up?

 

[JHE]

Another vote for 'money well spent' I reckon. Losing Gibraltar alone would've been a catastrophe for the allies.

If Spain would otherwise have joined in the war, yes, it was money well well spent, but whether Spain would have joined in without these bribes is the moot point...

 

[dylanredefined]

Roll who up?

Franco the last fascist.

 

[butchersapron]

Franco the last fascist.

Sorry, who did you want to invade Spain?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If Spain would otherwise have joined in the war, yes, it was money well well spent, but whether Spain would have joined in without these bribes is the moot point...

I suppose they probably decided on a 'better safe than sorry' approach.

 

[eoin_k]

Franco the last fascist.

When you look at NATO's allies in Portugal, Greece and even Italy, Franco seems less of an exception.

 

[JHE]

I suppose they probably decided on a 'better safe than sorry' approach.

Could be, but I don't think so. The British ambassador regarded it not as a just-to-be-on-the-safe-side additional measure, but as crucial. (See snippet of report in opening post.) My scepticism is not about what the British state (diplomacy, government or spooks) was trying to achieve, but whether the judgement (eg, the ambassador's judgement) about Franco was sound. Maybe, following Franco's failure at Hendaye, and his concerns that I outlined above, the brutish little general wasn't going to enter the war anyway.

I guess some time soon, there will be a published comment from Preston on these revelations. It will be interesting to read his assessment.

 

[JimW]

When you look at NATO's allies in Portugal, Greece and even Italy, Franco seems less of an exception.

Didn't they famously work quite hard in Greece to get the collaborators in rather than the communist maquis with a much bigger popular base?

 

[butchersapron]

Didn't they famously work quite hard in Greece to get the collaborators in rather than the communist maquis with a much bigger popular base?

Indeed, which makes the idea of invading spain post-45 even more ludicrous.

 

[eoin_k]

Didn't they famously work quite hard in Greece to get the collaborators in rather than the communist maquis with a much bigger popular base?

Most famously they fired on EAM demonstrators in Syntagma Square in Athens from the roof of the Hotel Grande Bretagne and attacked ELAS partisans in the working class area around the port of Piraeus from the air in 1944. But there is much more to the story. For example, the first chief of the Royal Ulster Constabulary was sent out to train the greek police to hunt down subversives after the war. While under instructions from Stalin, the KKE leadership was reluctant to seize power, despite having effectively ruled large parts of the country during the occupation.

 

[butchersapron]

It wasn't reluctance eoin, it was orders.

 

[eoin_k]

True enough. In trying to avoid overstating the point I've understated it.

 

[J Ed]

Who was that US general who was all for pushing on to Moscow? patton?

Roll who up?

I'm actually writing something on Bevin's policy of non-intervention on Spain at the moment, should be done by the end of the day if anyone is curious. From 45 to 47 there were a LOT of attempts by a variety of countries - including France, the US, the USSR and Poland to move towards overthrowing him or even imposing economic sanctions and it was Britain that stood in the way every time. First with Churchill (Eden was mostly in favour of getting rid of Franco) and then with Atlee and Bevin. I'm still a bit stuck as to WHY this was the case Whether sanctions would have worked is debateable but there are some pretty persuasive accounts that they would, but Britain ensured that no one even tried it.

Typically the US role is seen as the worst in regards to Franco but honestly from reading the history you realise that they only started to back Franco after our fucking Labour government refused to replace him with someone else and they didn't really have another option.

 

[Hollis]

Next to Stalingrad I believe Hitler had a soft spot for the Canary Islands. Another unfulfilled ambition.

 

[Bakunin]

Who was that US general who was all for pushing on to Moscow? patton?

It was Patton, yes.

 

[JimW]

It was Patton, yes.

Cheers. Do you know how serious he was - more of a rant or actual attempt to shift policy that way?

 

[Bakunin]

Cheers. Do you know how serious he was - more of a rant or actual attempt to shift policy that way?

Patton was a committed anti-Communist and would have quite happily fought the Russians once the Axis were finished off. He openly advocated continuing the advance through Germany, into Eastern Europe and on to Moscow.

 

[JimW]

Patton was a committed anti-Communist and would have quite happily fought the Russians once the Axis were finished off. He openly advocated continuing the advance through Germany, into Eastern Europe and on to Moscow.

I know in China US marines held some of the formerly occupied cities that the Japanese were surrendering so the Nationalists could re-take them rather than the communists, who were much closer. Apparently was some thought of fighting it out from the CCP but cooler heads prevailed and they kept their powder dry for the while.

 

[J Ed]

http://www.albavolunteer.org/2013/0...-no-paul-preston-is-working-harder-than-ever/

Interview with Paul Preston, may be of interest here. Can't wait to read the biography of Carrillo.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Cheers. Do you know how serious he was - more of a rant or actual attempt to shift policy that way?

The British started work in 1945 on a plan to force Stalin, via military means, to back off a bit, possibly even out of Poland. It didn't get anywhere, and given it was codenamed Operation Unthinkable. I don't suppose even the planners thought it would.

 

[likesfish]

i always though franco was very keen to stay out of the war because spains forces frankly aughable for anything that invoved people who could shoot ack.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Who was that US general who was all for pushing on to Moscow? patton?

There were a few: Curtis Lemay was another.