Mentally ill man dragged from police custody, beaten and burnt to death

[5t3IIa]

I have lived in a Muslim country, and have worked with many Muslims. IME Islam is the least tolerant of all the religions to which I have been exposed. This is a fault of the interpretation of the Qu'ran. It does not teach intolerance at all. As always, it is people that are the problem.

The Qu'ran doesn't teach tolerance or the interpretations don't?

 

[extra dry]

Most of the problems in the world come from this very question, how do you interpret something written hundreds/thousands of years ago...in today's world?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Most of the problems in the world come from this very question, how do you interpret something written hundreds/thousands of years ago...in today's world?

Don't see that as being a problem, the main problem is that there are many people out there who are utter cunts who chose to use religions to further their own ends.

 

[Spymaster]

DP

 

[Spymaster]

The Qu'ran doesn't teach tolerance or the interpretations don't?

Dessiato is suggesting that the koran doesn't advocate INtolerence and that intolerant principles are the interpretive work of individuals.

He's wrong as it happens. The koran, just like the bible, is chock-o-block with intolerant verse, mostly calling bad shit down on dis/un/non-believers.

Various interpretations of part of one of the best known verses (2:191) ...

Yusuf Ali: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

Zohurul Hoque: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for, persecution is worse than killing. But do not fight with them near the Sacred Masjid unless they fight with you therein; but if they fight with you, then fight with them. Such is the reward of the Unbelievers.

T. J. Irving: Kill them wherever you may catch them, and expel the from anywhere they may have expelled you. Sedition is more serious than killing! Yet do not fight them at the Hallowed Mosque unless the fight you there. If they should fight you, then fight them back; such is the reward for disbelievers.

T.U. Hilali-M. Khan: And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

M. Pickthall: And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

M.H. Shakir: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Oh look, they're all the same.

http://www.qurantoday.com/BaqSec24.htm

There's tons of this stuff in both the koran and the bible, but christians and muslims use the "interpretation" cop-out.

It's bollocks in general. Obviously the koran says nothing about stopping women from driving, not letting them vote, or hanging gays from cranes, so it's areas such as these where the interpretation arguments lie, not in trying to convince us that the scriptures themselves are in some way tolerant. They're not.

 

[october_lost]

I have lived in a Muslim country, and have worked with many Muslims. IME Islam is the least tolerant of all the religions to which I have been exposed. This is a fault of the interpretation of the Qu'ran. It does not teach intolerance at all. As always, it is people that are the problem.

Which has gone through a social/cultural/political and economic filter, no?

 

[dessiato]

Which has gone through a social/cultural/political and economic filter, no?

Yes. But as I said, it is people that are usually the problem. After all if words could have as much influence as some would have us believe, there'd be loads of us going out still burning witches. IMO people will always find ways of justifying their bad behaviour, and using Xtianity, Islam or Judaism is easy.

 

[butchersapron]

What do you think the above mentioned filters apply to if not people?

 

[october_lost]

There is an argument as to say whether one religion is more regressive than others, how you would measure this, I am not sure, but the point is people will use religion simply because it is there, simply so they can pursue political and economic ends.

 

[dessiato]

What do you think the above mentioned filters apply to if not people?

Sorry, I thought it went without saying that it is people.

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry, I thought it went without saying that it is people.

Do those those filters and those social traditions they represent have effects on people? Or are they just people?

 

[Pickman's model]

Most of the problems in the world come from this very question, how do you interpret something written hundreds/thousands of years ago...in today's world?

why do you think interpreting the word of mohammed should present more difficulties than interpreting the word of eg ovid?

 

[camouflage]

Because he allegedly set fire to a book

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18713545



Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance etc.

Nutty death-cult shits on carpet. World carries on. That other nutty death cult with the old bloke with the silly hat would be thrilled if their hordes of followers could get away with doing the same.

Sigh, the iron fisted rule of secular society means the world's just not as fun as it once was.

 

[Dr Jon]

Nutty death-cult shits on carpet. World carries on. That other nutty death cult with the old bloke with the silly hat would be thrilled if their hordes of followers could get away with doing the same.

Sigh, the iron fisted rule of secular society means the world's just not as fun as it once was.

Science has exposed our native nutty death cults for the obvious bollocks they are: burning people for heresy and witchcraft are now centuries out of fashion.

Religion in general and Islam in particular are embraced by barbarian knuckledragging twats because backward superstitious bollocks allows them to feel good about being barbarian knuckledragging twats.

 

[butchersapron]

Religion in general and Islam in particular are embraced by barbarian knuckledragging twats because backward superstitious bollocks allows them to feel good about being barbarian knuckledragging twats.

Hope you now feel good.

 

[camouflage]

Hope you now feel good.

Not as good as burning a mentally ill man to death for vandalizing a book must of made that god-sucking mob of fuckwits feel but yes, the post put a smile on my face anyway.

 

[butchersapron]

Not as good as burning a retarded man to death for vandalizing a book must of made that god-sucking mob of fuckwits feel but yes, the post put a smile on my face anyway.

 

[camouflage]

Skyfairy-approver.

 

[elbows]

Take the hate, magnify it and spread it all around. Then wonder why you are sinking into the ground.

 

[smmudge]

Lol. If you're "well aware of western culture" what's with the fucking ignorant posts?

Because we're not focusing on the West here?

 

[Spymaster]

Because we're not focusing on the West here?

You post this:

Most Islamic countries are plenty 'enlightened';

And have the cheek to post a facepalm to me!

You utter moron.

 

[smmudge]

Yes, most of the people who live in Islamic countries.

 

[october_lost]

I think the point is there not enlightened. You can legitimately try and bypass that by talking about their relationship to the all powerful west, but you chose not to do that, and argue akin to cultural relativism.

 

[Spymaster]

Yes, most of the people who live in Islamic countries.

 

[Citizen66]

No. But the majority do little or nothing to oppose extremist behaviour which is why it's more prevalent in Islam than ANY other religion.

Are you suggesting that Islamic extremists aren't arrested in Islamic countries for their activities?

 

[smmudge]

And you wrote this:

The lack of a period of Enlightenment experienced in western cultures 250 years ago means most of these people are still religiously controlled and accepting of that.

I mean, you actually wrote that. It's right there.

 

[Spymaster]

And you wrote this:



I mean, you actually wrote that. It's right there.

Which bit of that would you take issue with?

 

[Spymaster]

Are you suggesting that Islamic extremists aren't arrested in Islamic countries for their activities?

Er, no. I wasn't. But now you mention it Islamic extremism is enshrined in the law of many Islamic states. Anywhere where homosexuality is punishable with barbarity, anywhere where women can be stoned for adultery, anywhere where thieves face judicial mutilation is practicing extremism.

 

[Pickman's model]

E

Er, no. I wasn't. But now you mention it Islamic extremism is enshrined in the law of many Islamic states. Anywhere where homosexuality is punishable with barbarity, anywhere where women can be stoned for adultery, anywhere where thieves face judicial mutilation is practicing extremism.

And that's extremism because you don't like it I suppose

 

[smmudge]

Which bit of that would you take issue with?

Quite a few bits, really. Firstly, pointing out the fact that a specifically Western movement didn't happen in non-Western history. Tautology is meaningless.

The idea that present cultures are determined to some extent by something that didn't happen in their history. If historians sat down to try and figure out how we got here by all the events that didn't happen...well, history would be a very tricky business indeed.

Then there's this implicit assumption that somehow all predominately monotheistic cultures thought the same and had the same history up until the Enlightenment period, whereupon the West became 'enlightened' and everybody else carried on as it was (medieval, you say - another specifically Western period). I guess history just stopped for everyone else?