Megalithic and Prehistoric Sites

[ska invita]

Love this 90s website... Includes what looks like a thorough map of UK megalithic sites

World-wide Ancient Site Database, Photos and Prehistoric Archaeology News with geolocation : The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map:

www.megalithic.co.uk

Megalithic pictures, experiences, recommendations and chat.

Posting it here as it's History.

I had a great experience the other day, will post it up soon, can't from phone.

 

[planetgeli]

I have a couple of pictures on that website. Still get their regular emails.

 

[brogdale]

Where to start?

OK, I'll start close to home (Croydon/Sutton) and witter on about the first of 4 prehistoric (though not Megalithic) sites hidden amongst the outer South London (sub)urban sprawl. Don't get me wrong, I'll post pics of 'real' megaliths I've seen till the cows come home, but I do take a real pleasure in seeking out the less obvious, less dramatic, often over-looked sites of interest on our/my doorstep.

1. Croham hurst mesolithic settlement & neolithic barrows.

Just about half a mile away from South Croydon station, Croham Hurst woods make a really good walk on its own, but with the added incentive of some prehistory, it's a gem!

Up on the summit, with great views S & SW down the old valley of the Wandle & Caterham valley, there are the mesolithic pits of settlement and the (pretty indistinct) neolithic barrows. Get up there and you see why the ancestors favoured the spot. The winter solstice sun also sets down into the 'notch' of the Wandle valley with precision:



I think you'd have to really know what you were up to detect any evidence of the the mesolithic 'pits', but the (denuded) barrows can be seen and are marked with a plinth:



There's a fair few entries about Croham on Julian's portal site:

Next time I get around to it I'll post about my favourite lockdown find on my doorstep; the Merebank!

 

[ska invita]

Get up there and you see why the ancestors favoured the spot.

This is what i love particularly about such sites - the stones prove that the spot was favoured, but take them away and you find yourself in particularly magical locations, and having that enjoyment of the land and knowing others were thinking along similiar lines thousands of years ago makes a great connection with the past

 

[platinumsage]

This is what i love particularly about such sites - the stones prove that the spot was favoured, but take them away and you find yourself in particularly magical locations, and having that enjoyment of the land and knowing others were thinking along similiar lines thousands of years ago makes a great connection with the past

Not sure about this. Sometimes the spots might just have been at the boundaries of communities, perhaps established through decades of brutal and miserable conflict, or whichever ridge they agreed on after endless drunken arguments.

 

[brogdale]

Not sure about this. Sometimes the spots might just have been at the boundaries of communities, perhaps established through decades of brutal and miserable conflict, or whichever ridge they agreed on after endless drunken arguments.

True, but when you do come across some sights, the geographical/topographical splendour or significance does suggest itself. There are so many, particularly Neolithic sites, that offer aspects of landscape that must have held some significance, be that 'birthplaces' of the life-giving waters, sea views, or 'pregnant' mother earth landforms. As ska invita said, part of the fun is attempting to put yourself in their shoes and wonder at the motivations for their location. I love all that; not super 'scientific', but that's not the point, is it?

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure about this. Sometimes the spots might just have been at the boundaries of communities, perhaps established through decades of brutal and miserable conflict, or whichever ridge they agreed on after endless drunken arguments.

don't judge everyone by your own low standards

 

[platinumsage]

True, but when you do come across some sights, the geographical/topographical splendour or significance does suggest itself. There are so many, particularly Neolithic sites, that offer aspects of landscape that must have held some significance, be that 'birthplaces' of the life-giving waters, sea views, or 'pregnant' mother earth landforms. As ska invita said, part of the fun is attempting to put yourself in their shoes and wonder at the motivations for their location. I love all that; not super 'scientific', but that's not the point, is it?

While it’s nice to imagine nice things, I do think there is a tendency to over-romanticise. Some of these locations may have been places of fear and dread with executions and human sacrifice.

Most of the time though it was probably the dull middle. A trading post annoyingly located up a muddy slope. The ruling family’s tomb where normal people don’t go without appropriate authorisation.

I think it’s equally interesting imagining these sort of things than loved-up Beltane orgies.

There was a Gibbet Hill near where I used to live, which certainly fired the imagination, and had a lovely view from the top. Swaying worm-riddled corpses of highwaymen aren’t exactly magical though.

 

[brogdale]

While it’s nice to imagine nice things, I do think there is a tendency to over-romanticise. Some of these locations may have been places of fear and dread with executions and human sacrifice.

I think it’s equally interesting imagining this sort of thing than loved-up Beltane orgies.

Most of the time though it was probably the dull middle. A trading post annoyingly located up a muddy slope. The ruling family’s tomb where normal people don’t go without appropriate authorisation.

There was a Gibbet Hill near where I used to live, which certainly fired the imagination, and had a lovely view from the top. Swaying worm-riddled corpses of highwaymen aren’t exactly magical though.

Fair, if a tad dark
I've been called worse than "romantic" on here!
Have to say, I even enjoy the more prosaic locational factors, that you refer to, when they become obvious or are explained.

There's a bronze-age hill-fort enclosure near me at Carshalton that apparently offered some sort of managerial, stock management position overlooking many of the late Neolithic grazing stockades of the mid Wandle valley in the Beddington area.

Once I'd read that I looked at the whole (now suburban) vista with a renewed awe/appreciation.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Waylands Smithy is my #1 favourite. Sits just off the Ridgeway under Uffington hill fort, with the ancient white horse over looking the small hill where St George slayed the dragon.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Anyone ever even heard of Wansdyke? No? Jeepers, it is fucking enormous, go check it out, just outside Marlborough, not far from Avebury, close by Silbury Hill and West Kennet Long Barrow (bigger than Waylands Smithy, but not quite as magical...)

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

While it’s nice to imagine nice things, I do think there is a tendency to over-romanticise. Some of these locations may have been places of fear and dread with executions and human sacrifice.

Most of the time though it was probably the dull middle. A trading post annoyingly located up a muddy slope. The ruling family’s tomb where normal people don’t go without appropriate authorisation.

I think it’s equally interesting imagining these sort of things than loved-up Beltane orgies.

There was a Gibbet Hill near where I used to live, which certainly fired the imagination, and had a lovely view from the top. Swaying worm-riddled corpses of highwaymen aren’t exactly magical though.

There’s a Gibbet Hill near me too, had the corpses of three murderers displayed for around two years, much to the disgust of people who had to pass it. The gibbet was on the site of the gallows, at the highest point of the highest hill close to the scene of the crime, one night it was struck by lightning and fell down, people demanded the remains be buried (unmarked graves on unconsecrated ground). This was done and the land owner erected a cross to show god is cool and that...

 

[Artaxerxes]

Ambesbury Banks and Loughton Camp are probably more likely to be herd enclosures than defensive positions.

I hike up there regularly as its one of the most peaceful bits of the forest and good energy.

 

[JimW]

Anyone ever even heard of Wansdyke? No? Jeepers, it is fucking enormous, go check it out, just outside Marlborough, not far from Avebury, close by Silbury Hill and West Kennet Long Barrow (bigger than Waylands Smithy, but not quite as magical...

View attachment 225028View attachment 225029View attachment 225030

Been there! Loved Callanish and Ring of Brodgar on Orkney, favourites two minor ones near home, Long Stone by Minchinhampton and Hetty Pegler's Tump, chambered passage tomb on next hill over.

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[danny la rouge]

Dunning witch monument.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

My gibbet and your witch are taking this off piste a bit, neither that old in the scheme of things.

The U.K., and Europe is littered with pre-historical stuff, my local area is festooned with tumuli, it’s not exceptional in any way.

And Scotland has perhaps the most extraordinary thing on earth, Skara Brae.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, sorry. But megalith just means big stone. We can keep it Neolithic if you want though.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yeah, sorry. But megalith just means big stone. We can keep it Neolithic if you want though.

Guess we need ska invita to clarify if he meant megalithic or Neolithic when he started this thread.

 

[brogdale]

Not wishing to speak for ska invita , but I think the thread seemed to spring from a question I asked in the seaside towns thread about Standing Stones.

Britain’s best and worst seaside towns

My mum loved Bridlington. She used to say ‘can you smell that ozone? best smell in the world’ We used to tell her it was only the sea and chip shops, but she was adamant it was ozone. Bless her.

www.urban75.net

For my 2p worth...there's rarely anything to be gained from restricting the range of content in a thread like this.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Not wishing to speak for ska invita , but I think the thread seemed to spring from a question I asked in the seaside towns thread about Standing Stones.

Britain’s best and worst seaside towns

My mum loved Bridlington. She used to say ‘can you smell that ozone? best smell in the world’ We used to tell her it was only the sea and chip shops, but she was adamant it was ozone. Bless her.

www.urban75.net

For my 2p worth...there's rarely anything to be gained from restricting the range of content in a thread like this.

The Hascombe standing stones are a 15 minute bike ride from my house, they are less than 30 years old, but sit at the base of a hill that has an Iron Age fort on top, including a pond dug thousands of years ago that is still a pond today. Will stick up a pond pic, but the stones are too new, maybe, ska needs to clarify. *taps watch

Iron Age pond

 

[NoXion]

The Hascombe standing stones are a 15 minute bike ride from my house, they are less than 30 years old, but sit at the base of a hill that has an Iron Age fort on top, including a pond dug thousands of years ago that is still a pond today. Will stick up a pond pic, but the stones are too new, maybe, ska needs to clarify. *taps watch

Iron Age pond
View attachment 225050

Would this pond have been decorative or functional when it was first dug? Or is that one of those things that are lost to time?

 

[danski]

Stoners

 

[Brainaddict]

Good thread, and I love that website. Recently went to the Medway megaliths as a first day trip by car from London. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and the locations of two of them are really nice. We didn't realise one isn't accessible to the public (Chestnuts Long Barrow) so went looking for it - you can only see some a few stones of nearby Addington barrow. Disgraceful that it isn't open I thought. You'd think such sites would be compulsorily purchased.

 

[ska invita]

Good thread, and I love that website. Recently went to the Medway megaliths as a first day trip by car from London. Thoroughly enjoyed it, and the locations of two of them are really nice. We didn't realise one isn't accessible to the public (Chestnuts Long Barrow) so went looking for it - you can only see some a few stones of nearby Addington barrow. Disgraceful that it isn't open I thought. You'd think such sites would be compulsorily purchased.

going to do that trip ! Wasnt aware of those, thanks.

Two articles of interest

Ancient monoliths like Stonehenge may have spread from northwestern France about 7,000 years ago

There are actually tens of thousands of Stonehenge-like structures throughout Europe.

www.zmescience.com

and this

Stonehenge: DNA reveals origin of builders

Ancestors of the people who built Stonehenge travelled west across the Mediterranean to get to Britain.

www.bbc.co.uk

which suggests Stonehenge builders "descended from populations originating in Anatolia (modern Turkey) that moved to Iberia before heading north."

Considering what a big deal Stonehenge is in the UK I thought this wouldve been a bigger story

A woman of "Sussex" 6 thousands years ago:

 

[ska invita]

btw there is a better map on that site than the "classic" one that appears on the front page

Ancient and prehistoric sites worldwide map with clustering, from the Megalithic Portal

 

[brogdale]

For the second of the ancient sites on my doorstep:

2. The Mere Bank on the Croydon/Sutton border.

This probable neolithic boundary earthwork is deffo my find of the 'lockdown'; always there (partly) in plain sight, yet hidden away by modern developments.

I stumbled on the feature while I was looking at the old 1880s OS map to explore the old Croydon airport site (before it was the airport) on this excellent resource:



There it was going right across the airport site, just West of the Purley Way and intriguingly pretty much still marking the boundary between the Boroughs of Croydon & Sutton (& their Parliamentary constituencies):



I had a bit of a search and came across this really good study from the London Archaeologist (downloadable PDF free) which included this tantalising 1932 aerial image of the then relatively new Croydon aerodrome/airport showing the faint trace of what was probably the flattened earthen, Mere Bank:



The Gower piece showed that the Mere Bank neolithic boundary feature stretched from Purley, up over the hill to the airport, all the way across it, through what is now the industrial estate, across Stafford Road and down (via Merebank lane) at least as far as the River Wandle itself, and probably well beyond towards/across Mitcham common:



Taking the more platinumsage style interpretation, the earthwork could well have represented just a straightforward boundary marker between 2 (tribal?) areas of grazing etc. Or, ending as it does at the liminal space of a River 'cliff' on the Wandle, may have had a more ritualistic/ spiritual function? This sort of archaeological speculation fascinates me, especially given the archly suburban, developed nature of the terrain.

Anyway, what does the thing look like today?

Starting down at Purley, the earth work bank appears preserved in the space between Russell Hill and the footpath known under the old name of Coldharbour Lane:



Across the airport, for obvious reasons, the feature was flattened, but the modern-day borough boundary is marked by a raised death bund:



...and down at the Wandle the (terminal?) river cliff, possibly a place of spiritual significance/votive offerings ( ? ) is still clearly visible on the bridal path footpath along the river:



All under our feet!
Amazing.

 

[brogdale]

For any Urbz or others wishing to walk the Mere Bank, here's a few maps and my own pics to guide you on the route of the ancestors!

Starting from the South, at Purley, it's possible to speculate (I know) that the now culverted confluence of the 2 upper tributaries of the river Wandle, (the Caterham valley & Coulsdon valley bournes), may well have held some territorial, if not ritualistic/spiritual significance for our Neolithic ancestors. The remaining Mere Bank starts just a few tens of metres away from the confluence at the side of the A23 and ascends up Russell Hill (Neolithic settlement under the playing fields of the Thomas More school on the summit).



The Mere bank earthwork looking up (North) Coldharbour lane on Russell Hill:



It's a nice wander, whatever...



Cross over Highfield Road at the top of the hill and go left for 50m or so, then head on down the (untarmaced) culture de sac of Overhill road and onto the airport open space/Roundshaw downs and head down, along the boundary bund for the industrial estate around the old airport buildings:



Make your way through the industrial estate, past Costco still trying hard to imagine the processions of the ancestors (! ), then get down to Stafford Road via Hannibal Way, and turn right towards Croydon, and on your left/North just before the borough boundary notice you'll see Merebank lane:





Unfortunately, due to the railway etc. this is a dead end and too follow the rest of the route you have to veer round to Fiveways, past Morrisons, on your left and Waddon station on your right and then turn left onto Croydon road towards Carshalton (West) - dotted pink line on map.

The Ridgeway road is on your right and this then takes you down to the significant site of the Waddon ponds and the river Wandle, with the river cliff on the bridle way path:



So the Mere Bank goes from water to water, over the hill of downland.

Enjoy!

 

[platinumsage]

I had a bit of a search and came across this really good study from the London Archaeologist (downloadable PDF free) which included this tantalising 1932 aerial image of the then relatively new Croydon aerodrome/airport showing the faint trace of what was probably the flattened earthen, Mere Bank:

I'm not sure I've ever read anything more inconclusive.

I'm not convinced it isn't a Roman road tbh, they weren't always metalled, and the width and ditches being on both sides certainly tick the right boxes. The Ivan D Margery paper referenced in the above makes a good argument, and why make a flint bed foundation for a boundary or ceremonial bank?

 

[brogdale]

I'm not sure I've ever read anything more inconclusive.

I'm not convinced it isn't a Roman road tbh, they weren't always metalled, and the width and ditches being on both sides certainly tick the right boxes. The Ivan D Margery paper referenced in the above makes a good argument, and why make a flint bed foundation for a boundary or ceremonial bank?

Fair play for reading around the feature
It's certainly a feature that warrants some more investigation.
Obviously, as a 'romantic', I'm all over the confirmation bias that suggests a ceremonial/ritualistic feature of the Neolithic ancestors...but for me the 'clincher' is the local micro-geography of the known Roman roads & villas/settlement in the vicinity and the location of the established neolithic settlements/sites. But, yeah...it's contestable.

But let's not knock down my 'lockdown' dreaming, eh?