Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Loughborough Junction Masterplan (presentation 14/17 September)

teuchter

teuchter

je suis teuchter
20160825_145515.jpg



Consultation sessions for this happened last year (I went to a couple of them) and then things went rather quiet, perhaps partly because of the ruckus about the road closures.

The masterplan is a separate exercise from that (although their scopes inevitably overlap). It's more of an overarching strategy to guide development over the next few years. I understand it will be incorporated to some extent into the review of the Lambeth Local Plan when that's published next year.

more info -
Loughborough Junction Masterplan | Lambeth Council

Anyway, it looks like proposals will be presented next month. The poster says it's part of a consultation period so I guess that means feedback can still be given, rather than this being presentation of a fait accompli. In theory at any rate.
 
I'll be away both dates:
Please somebody ask about the Adventure Playground and how far along they are in the process of turning it into a block of flats.

This is the last official printed word i've seen on it (from last year's 'consultation' report)
"will have to be replaced in a more appropriate and beneficial manner"..

will have to be replaced !.png
:mad:
 
Last edited:
Looked at Lambeth website an nothing on it about this lastest round of consultation.

See poster says consultation will run from 12th September to 17th October. With the materials online in that period.

So Im assuming it will be possible to comment online if one cannot make either event. There is a LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting coming up next Wednesday. ( will post up later on that on LJ thread). So will ask about how comments can be put forward if one cannot attend the meetings.

bimble - Definitely its during this consultation that the adventure playground should be brought up again.
 
if yer going to have a plan best make it a Master Plan! One Plan to rule them all.
 
The LJ Neighbourhood planning meeting I attended last Wednesday also had item on the Masterplan consultation.

  • The Wednesday 14th consultation ( see OP). This will be in the Wooley House meeting room. Which is quite small. So the Council officer said if you want to attend the presentation in the evening you need to register ( email Council) to say ur coming. Otherwise if its full you may be turned away. I said this was unsatisfactory and why didnt the Council get the Youth Centre hall which it had used last time. After some discussion it may be possible to use the LEMB hall around the corner in the evening. But this needs to be clarified.
  • The Saturday and Wednesday events are the same except for the presentation on the Wednesday one. So one could go to either. Depending on what is convenient.
  • I asked what we are being consulted on. Told this is Stage 4. Draft of the Masterplan will be shown for comments. So its pretty well nearly finished. I then said that some of us are still disputing the results of the consultation re the Adventure playground. So how is this going to be dealt with. Told by officer that anyone can comment on the draft masterplan. Not really my question. This stage 4 consultation is taking the results of previous rounds of consultation as a given. The Council officer and the Cllr present were hostile to me bringing this issue up again. I was cut short and told to comment when the draft came out. End of discussion. I have repeatedly asked for clarification on what the tables at the consultation meeting said re the Adventure playground. And answer kept on being deferred to next meeting.:facepalm: This meeting I got hostility. After the meeting everyone else agreed with me that the consultation findings on the Adventure playground are disputed. That the Council / Fluid interpreted the consultation results to suit them.
  • As someone else said the Cllr not at this meeting was Cllr Rachel who is concerned about the playground.
  • So make sure to get comments in. A first draft of the masterplan will be on the Lambeth website on 12th Setpember at:
Loughborough Junction Masterplan | Lambeth Council
 
I really made myself popular with Council officers and Cllrs last Wednesday. :facepalm::rolleyes:

Just asking questions. Like what I thought they wanted us plebs to do.
 
Thank you Gramsci.
I'm really fucking angry about this (the playground, the plainly obvious dishonesty of how its been dealt with every step of the way). Sorry I wasn't there to get my fair share of the hostility.

From the very first drawings, which I think were purposefully designed to confuse, it has been an exercise in doublespeak this one.
(I sat looking at those 4 options for about an hour before I could really understand what was going on and not many people have that sort of time to spend on deciphering one page of a consultation document).

This matters to Lambeth a lot, not because they are evil and hate playgrounds but simply because it's the biggest piece of council owned land in LJ and therefore the single biggest potential source of a cash injection. Meanwhile they must know perfectly well that nobody who lives here has anything to gain from the playground being transformed into a block of flats.
 
Last edited:
Gramsci said:
  • I asked what we are being consulted on. Told this is Stage 4. Draft of the Masterplan will be shown for comments. So its pretty well nearly finished.
Click to expand...
Hang on - what happened in between 'stage 2' and now? Seems Stage 3 got lost in the post somewhere. :confused:
And this (stage 4 ) was meant to happen exactly a year ago.
 
Gramsci was it made clear at the meeting that people would be able to comment online if they can't turn up to either of these 2 events ? (teuchter's poster just says we'll be able to 'view the material' online up until 17th October).
 
bimble said:
Gramsci was it made clear at the meeting that people would be able to comment online if they can't turn up to either of these 2 events ? (teuchter's poster just says we'll be able to 'view the material' online up until 17th October).
Click to expand...

It wasn't made clear about how to comment online.
 
No doubt the people trying to develop the masterplan will be grateful to Brixton Buzz for their sneery article which is written to turn people against the whole thing before it's even published. The booklet linked to is, as these things go, not exactly jargon-heavy and does a reasonable job of explaining what the masterplan's about - in theory at least. Once the masterplan itself is presented I hope people can manage to comment constructively based on what's actually in it instead of skim-reading the first couple of pages and pulling out some phrases they don't like. I'm not exactly a big fan of this kind of "consultation" in principle but if it's happening we might as well try to take any opportunities there are to influence the decision making process in a way that might get people in the area some of what they want. Deliberately turning people against the whole process is completely counter-productive. It just makes those most likely to feel like they aren't listened to, even less likely to get their thoughts across. How about we try and criticise the proposals on the basis of what they actually contain, once we get to see them?
 
What they've called "stage 4 consultation LJ Masterplan" parts 1 and 2. Last two download links. I assume these are effectively the draft for the final masterplan.

They are a bit thinner on information/analysis than I thought they might be.

I've no idea what happened to stage 3. As far as I remember I went to two workshop consultation events. Have a feeling there was supposed to be another one (stage 3?) that either never happened or I didn't hear about. Memory is a bit hazy now though.
 
I went to this open event this afternoon - not in good mood.

I'm beginning to agree with Plato on consultations. Ask the populace the right questions and you will get the worst possible answers.

The large young plumpish officer with blond hair and a black dress engaged with me in like mode. She came out with the usual twaddle of "we haven't got any money, we've had 50% cuts, this is the only way we can get anything done".

She said rather rashly that the extra population produced by these proposals would be catered for by the three stations - Loughborough Junction, Brixton East and Brixton (mainline I think).

She also assured me and Anthea (for it was she - briefly in the conversation) that the (Loughborough Park) Guinness Trust was being provided with parking so the residents who could not depend on the inadequate public transport provision could use their own cars.

This sounds off-message to me. Anyone know it it's true? Surely we are supposed to be working towards a car-free future?

Anthea said to her "They have car free developments in Camden" to which the Lambeth Planning & Regeneration Officer replied "This isn't Camden"

The officer was disappointed/peeved that I did not want to go through the 8 schemes one by one doing my written responses.

I said I thought they were each packages of things which were partly good and partly bad, so I didn't want to commit.

She started describing the Marcus Lipton redevelopment - which immediately proved he point:

1. Demolish Marcus Lipton
2. Build block of zero social housing flats
3. Demolish nearby children's playground
4. Build new Marcus Lipton Centre on former playground

It is all intensification and in effect gentrification.

I bumped into Unjum Mirza on the bus immediately after this Lambeth Council briefing-ette, and was wondering to him - if they haven't got the money - why do anything - especially if people don't really want it.
 
If they are really saying that extra pressure on public transport is not an issue because people are being provided with car parking spaces - that's nuts.

I thought car free developments were becoming the norm in inner-ish London now, including Lambeth.

I note on the Hardess site - a building up to 6 storeys is proposed as acceptable. That's quite a lot. I suspect I partly know why this is - in one of the workshops we were given coloured stickers to stick on various sites which represented high/medium/low development. Each had a few stickers on by the end of the session. I noticed there were quite a few "high" stickers on that site because I have a slight nimby interest in it. What was the decision making process in people's minds when they placed their stickers? I imagine for some at least it would be "that site's not near my house so lets stick the high density stuff there". So at the end of the consultation perhaps we have 5 or 10 stickers on a site, representing the views of that many (self selected) people out of the total population of the area, views formed in the space of perhaps half an hour or so and possibly with motivated reasoning. That's no way to make good decisions. But should it be questioned there is potentially always the response "we were listening to the views expressed in the consultation".

I'd hope decisions on development density etc have been justified on the basis of more than just that, of course. But putting myself in the shoes of the masterplan designers, of course you'd feel a pressure to make nods towards views expressed even if you felt they didn't make sense.

CH1 I agree these consultations are very problematic. It becomes as much about the questions asked as what the answers are.

On a more positive note I see that for that same site, an intention to retain employment space is mentioned. Something I was trying to say is important during the workshops. Although I can see it ending up as more office space displacing light industrial, as was granted permission for the Higgs site.
 
CH1 said:
I went to this open event this afternoon - not in good mood.

I'm beginning to agree with Plato on consultations. Ask the populace the right questions and you will get the worst possible answers.

The large young plumpish officer with blond hair and a black dress engaged with me in like mode. She came out with the usual twaddle of "we haven't got any money, we've had 50% cuts, this is the only way we can get anything done".

She said rather rashly that the extra population produced by these proposals would be catered for by the three stations - Loughborough Junction, Brixton East and Brixton (mainline I think).

She also assured me and Anthea (for it was she - briefly in the conversation) that the (Loughborough Park) Guinness Trust was being provided with parking so the residents who could not depend on the inadequate public transport provision could use their own cars.

This sounds off-message to me. Anyone know it it's true? Surely we are supposed to be working towards a car-free future?

Anthea said to her "They have car free developments in Camden" to which the Lambeth Planning & Regeneration Officer replied "This isn't Camden"

The officer was disappointed/peeved that I did not want to go through the 8 schemes one by one doing my written responses.

I said I thought they were each packages of things which were partly good and partly bad, so I didn't want to commit.

She started describing the Marcus Lipton redevelopment - which immediately proved he point:

1. Demolish Marcus Lipton
2. Build block of zero social housing flats
3. Demolish nearby children's playground
4. Build new Marcus Lipton Centre on former playground

It is all intensification and in effect gentrification.

I bumped into Unjum Mirza on the bus immediately after this Lambeth Council briefing-ette, and was wondering to him - if they haven't got the money - why do anything - especially if people don't really want it.
Click to expand...

I am going on Saturday.

Sounds to me that the Council has worked up plans. If they say they have to do it this way that is the Council decision.

My issue is whether the Council are using the results of the Fluid consultation to say they have local support.

At the consultation meeting I don't remember the Council saying anything about cuts. It was about planning issues. Height of building for example. Also need for more housing in London. So need for higher density.
 
Gramsci said:
Sounds to me that the Council has worked up plans. If they say they have to do it this way that is the Council decision. My issue is whether the Council are using the results of the Fluid consultation to say they have local support.
At the consultation meeting I don't remember the Council saying anything about cuts. It was about planning issues. Height of building for example. Also need for more housing in London. So need for higher density.
Click to expand...
The planning office mentioned cuts to me because I was complaining about the way proposed improvements such as the New Marcus Lipton were always add-ons to new residential developments - currently in bland "London Vernacular" brick faced glass and concrete construction. She said this was the only way improvements could be funded.

I thought the consultation was similar to the earlier one in Hero pf Switzerland Square (last July?) - the emphasis seemed to be on getting people to give their names, addresses telephone numbers and emails - and filling in the maximum of the form provided.

Unfortunately as we all know if the questions on the form are framed with a certain intention in mind it is likely that the results will be skewed.
 
I put this on the LJ chitter chatter thread. Putting here as the draft masterplan will be discussed.

Loughborough Junction
Neighbourhood Planning Forum
Wednesday 28 September 2016 at 8pm


You are invited to the Loughborough Junction Neighbourhood Planning Forum to be held at 8pm on Wednesday 28 September 2016 in the undercroft meeting room in Woolley House, on Loughborough Road (the hall is on the ground floor of Woolley House, the entrance is through the grey door to the right of the main entrance under the Woolley House sign – if you are having difficulty finding please ring 07799 621 582).

Please click below for the agenda

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/c678366a8fc275dc2daf27f88/files

/LJAGLJNeighbourhoodPF28.09.2016agenda.pdf

We will be discussing, among other matters, the draft LJ Masterplan; if you haven't had a chance to look at it yet it is on line at:
Loughborough Junction draft masterplan consultation stage 4 | Lambeth Council
The consultation ends on 17 October 2016.

( I see the consultation on the draft now has the online form if you want to comment that way as well.)
 
Gramsci said:
The consultation is now online.
Click to expand...
And there it is. Adventure playground now front & centre clearly presented as the number one 'opportunity' for development, ie earmarked for replacement with a large C shaped 5 storey block of flats.

Screen Shot 2016-09-30 at 10.07.18.png

"Grove Adventure Playground has now closed. Any re-provision would need to be subject to availability of funding and the council’s wider strategy for service provision in the area. Provision for younger children may be considered within the new youth centre and / or as part of the developments to [the park opposite]. "

They are no longer even pretending that there are options, no fig leafs required anymore.
Fucking hell.

" The council will pursue the projects located on their land in order to begin development as quickly as possible. ."
 
Last edited:
bimble said:
And there it is. Adventure playground now front & centre clearly presented as the number one 'opportunity' for development, ie earmarked for replacement with a large C shaped 5 storey block of flats.

View attachment 93204

"Grove Adventure Playground has now closed. Any re-provision would need to be subject to availability of funding and the council’s wider strategy for service provision in the area. Provision for younger children may be considered within the new youth centre and / or as part of the developments to [the park opposite]. "

They are no longer even pretending that there are options, no fig leafs required anymore.
Fucking hell.

" The council will pursue the projects located on their land in order to begin development as quickly as possible. ."
Click to expand...
It should be borne in mind that inhabitants of shared ownership flats marketed in City AM - like the Guinness Trust Loughborough Park - are not likely to have children. Even if they did it seems likely they would not want them associating with the lower orders.

The council pursuing their redevelopment options as quickly as possible smacks of the same attitude that led British Rail to get rid of the East Brixton platforms when they shut the station down in 1976.

"Dog in a manger".
 
Shouldn't be but am astonished by the brazeness of the way this has been presented as a done deal, just like that.
"It has now closed" being stuck there as if to underline the inevitability of its erasure.
 
All I can suggest is that you (if you is a large enough group of people) take inspiration from Papas Park and try and take control of the playground. It won't be easy; times were less pressured then. See if your councillors will help. But it will need large group of very engaged people.
 
that looks great. Was it threatened with being sold to private developers before local people stepped in?
I know that if there's to be even the tiniest chance of stopping this it would require a lot of concerted effort by lot of people and a constructive alternative self funding plan not just anger at the plan that Lambeth has presented us with.
 
I wasn't around (in the sense did not have small children at Stockwell Primary) at the time it was set up, but it was certainly threatened with being built on and the founding group took it over with the help of local Ferndale councillors. I think Paul McGlone was part of it from the beginning - he'll certainly be a mine of information and will have a sense of the possibilities if you contact him.
 
At the LJ Neighbourhood Planning committee I have been bringing up the issue of the adventure playground and the disputed consultation.

I do remember at one point the Council saying that no decision had been made about the adventure playground. The implication being I should not keep bringing the issue up. I was making to much of it.

Then when the final draft comes up the adventure playground is going under the masterplan. As bimble posted as a done deal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

teuchter
New development at Hardess St / Wellfit St, Loughborough Junction: 2024 planning application
2 3 4 5
Replies
126
Views
5K
teuchter
teuchter
Rushy
Petition to make busy Effra Road / Brixton Water Lane junction safer for pedestrians
Replies
18
Views
1K
Zapp Brannigan
Zapp Brannigan
editor
Major fire on Loughborough estate
Replies
14
Views
2K
Not a Vet
N
danny la rouge
Brixton immigration stop and search Atlantic Road (17/5/22)
Replies
14
Views
1K
Rushy
Rushy
editor
Cambria pub in Loughborough Junction is closed and boarded up
Replies
27
Views
3K
cuppa tee
cuppa tee
Back
Top Bottom