Lolicon (Lolita Complex)

[ViolentPanda]

I could not disagree more strongly. Not only is your post simplistic, it is wrong.

Since the inception of the internet, there have been a myriad of sexual offences cases where watching extreme porn has been implicated, especially with very young offenders.

And have you investigated how and why "extreme* porn" has been implicated? Often,if you read through court transcripts,case studies etc, no mention of porn is made during initial criminal proceedings, but only occurs once the defence starts assembling their case, because hey, exposure to porn is a mitigator, even though there's no overwhelming evidence in favour of porn causing otherwise-normal people to commit sexual offences.

*If by "extreme" you mean bondage, choking, group sex etc, that all pre-existed the internet. The difference is of availability.

Exposure to extreme porn desensitises the person, and reduces their respect for other humans beings. When someone has a steady diet of extreme porn, this becomes the norm, and becomes the 'expectation' in any relationship that the person then goes on to have. As you know doubt know, the majority of criminal acts against the person, are carried out by someone known to that person.

Balls. People have agency. Unless they have an underlying yen to commit a particular act, then exposure doesn't make you more likely to "act out". You, I and hundreds of thousands of other men were exposed to firearms and violence, and yet how many of us go on from being soldiers to being killers on civvy street? A tiny minority who likely had pathological issues that weren't spotted. Millions of men who are exposed to "extreme porn" don't whip, choke or sodomise their partner, and yet your contention - that exposure can't help but warp people, would make them the "abnormal" ones, not the tiny minority who commit sex crimes.

Do you think it is coincidence that the only type of crime showing year on year increase is sexual crime? I am prepared to accept that part of the reason is an increase in people reporting, because they feel that they will now be taken seriously, whereas before this was by no means the case.

May I suggest that you scrutinise some of the longitudinal data on rape? An increasing volume of reports appears to be a major factor in driving the increase in listed crimes, with an increase from 1 in 20, to around 1 in 10 over the last 20 years.

BTW, if you're basing your judgement on articles relating to the British Crime Survey, or to the Crime Survey itself, bear in mind the limitations mentioned in every volume.

I'm not in favour of censorship, mainly because of the 'slippery slope' argument, but I find myself becoming more and more uneasy about the material available on the net, and the age of those viewing it.

Something like rape has to become completely socially-acceptable within an in-group or peer group in order to become "accepted behaviour", and so far evidence of such practices appears to stem from groups that enforce pathological behaviour as a method of control - gangs etc. Rapes by children of children are still vanishingly rare, even those committed by abused kids perpetuating a chain of abuse.

 

[el-ahrairah]

i guess the questions i'd want to ask is "why do you want to look at drawings of children having sex? what purpose does it serve? how is it entertaining? why is this a thing?"

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Sexually abusing kids presumably goes back to the start of the human race? As indicated, if you look back in history there are plenty of societies, many quite primitive where the abuse, sexual & otherwise of both women & children by men was rife. Even today less developed societies in other parts of the world abuse & murder, why? because they can get away with it, they can do it without consequenses. The more primitive a society, the more you have law of the jungle. Recently ISIS stated their members could have sex with prepubesent girls if they wished, in the news recently, child rape is common in Afganistan, in these cases I'm sure it happens because people can get away with it.

I think the veil of civilisation is very thin, it takes very little to turn people feral, look at things as diverse as 'the jungle' in Calais or Syrian refugees in Lebanon, there are all sorts of criminal gangs in both places trying to gain from the dire situation of others. This is the law of jungle, the survival of the fittest, to the winner the spoils. People act like this because they can get away with it. This is why civilised societies developed complex legal systems to administer justice in a fair way & protect the weak & society in general from criminals. Civilised societies have complex sets of punishments to fit various crimes, jungle law offers mainly summary execution as the only punishment.

So is sexual orientation towards young kids something some people are born with or is it a social construct, ie men(it is mainly men, I think)if they so desire will abuse kids if they can get away with it for whatever reason in the society they live in? The fact is nobody knows, anybody you can think of from people you work with to famous people could be paedophiles, either offending or not, nobody, not even 'experts' can pretend they have any idea.

 

[SpackleFrog]

As I mentioned up the thread, the age of consent in Japan is currently 13 .. i.e. you can be 13 and be a consenting adult.

I'm not talking about Japan, and as an aside the idea that a 13 year old can consent to sex is fucking nuts son.

 

[SpackleFrog]

You think that parents should be criminalised for having photographs of their children naked?

How frightening.

Are you simple?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Sexually abusing kids presumably goes back to the start of the human race? As indicated, if you look back in history there are plenty of societies, many quite primitive where the abuse, sexual & otherwise of both women & children by men was rife. Even today less developed societies in other parts of the world abuse & murder, why? because they can get away with it, they can do it without consequenses. The more primitive a society, the more you have law of the jungle. Recently ISIS stated their members could have sex with prepubesent girls if they wished, in the news recently, child rape is common in Afganistan, in these cases I'm sure it happens because people can get away with it.

I think the veil of civilisation is very thin, it takes very little to turn people feral, look at things as diverse as 'the jungle' in Calais or Syrian refugees in Lebanon, there are all sorts of criminal gangs in both places trying to gain from the dire situation of others. This is the law of jungle, the survival of the fittest, to the winner the spoils. People act like this because they can get away with it. This is why civilised societies developed complex legal systems to administer justice in a fair way & protect the weak & society in general from criminals. Civilised societies have complex sets of punishments to fit various crimes, jungle law offers mainly summary execution as the only punishment.

So is sexual orientation towards young kids something some people are born with or is it a social construct, ie men(it is mainly men, I think)if they so desire will abuse kids if they can get away with it for whatever reason in the society they live in? The fact is nobody knows, anybody you can think of from people you work with to famous people could be paedophiles, either offending or not, nobody, not even 'experts' can pretend they have any idea.

This a rather clumsy post. I'd be careful about saying that primitive or uncivilized societies will necessarily have more prevalent levels of child abuse. I'm sure the Tory MP's who are accused/will be accused of raping and murdering young boys were very civilized about it. I'm not saying you mean to but you sound like a racist here.

 

[weltweit]

I'm not talking about Japan, and as an aside the idea that a 13 year old can consent to sex is fucking nuts son.

Yes it is.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I could not disagree more strongly. Not only is your post simplistic, it is wrong.

Since the inception of the internet, there have been a myriad of sexual offences cases where watching extreme porn has been implicated, especially with very young offenders.

Exposure to extreme porn desensitises the person, and reduces their respect for other humans beings. When someone has a steady diet of extreme porn, this becomes the norm, and becomes the 'expectation' in any relationship that the person then goes on to have. As you know doubt know, the majority of criminal acts against the person, are carried out by someone known to that person.

Do you think it is coincidence that the only type of crime showing year on year increase is sexual crime? I am prepared to accept that part of the reason is an increase in people reporting, because they feel that they will now be taken seriously, whereas before this was by no means the case.

I'm not in favour of censorship, mainly because of the 'slippery slope' argument, but I find myself becoming more and more uneasy about the material available on the net, and the age of those viewing it.

Either you didn't read VP's post or you're making no sense. You appear to be arguing that the act of viewing extreme pornography would make someone want to replicate it, who previously had no such desire. This makes it very hard to explain where extreme pornography of this kind came from, since presumably by your logic if nobody had ever seen these acts performed then they would never harbor any desire to perform them.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

This a rather clumsy post. I'd be careful about saying that primitive or uncivilized societies will necessarily have more prevalent levels of child abuse. I'm sure the Tory MP's who are accused/will be accused of raping and murdering young boys were very civilized about it. I'm not saying you mean to but you sound like a racist here.

There was no intention to be PC. I was stating the blindingly obvious. In any society where you can get away with crime there will be more crime. If you don't like 'primitive' or 'uncivilised' then call them medieval, this term is often used to describe the type of society ISIS wish to create for example. societies where men in general can abuse women & children without consequenses or punishment.

 

[Vintage Paw]

There was no intention to be PC. I was stating the blindingly obvious. In any society where you can get away with crime there will be more crime. If you don't like 'primitive' or 'uncivilised' then call them medieval, this term is often used to describe the type of society ISIS wish to create for example. societies where men in general can abuse women & children without consequenses or punishment.

Then I guess we were living in medieval times through the 70s and 80s, and probably for a lot of people even today.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Images and depictions rarely create the sort of psychological pathology that causes someone to commit a crime. At best they fuel an existing pathology, so your analogy is worthless.

Not really. I was referring to judging people on their taste in viewing material. If someone finds a film like Cannibal Holocaust acceptable and/or entertaining, would you want that person teaching your child? Pretty sure if you were to dig through Daily Mail or The Sun headlines, you'd find something of that ilk over the last few decades.

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Then I guess we were living in medieval times through the 70s and 80s, and probably for a lot of people even today.

I would say that you are not wrong. In any society there will be sexual abuse of kids by those sexually orientated towards kids. As I pointed out earlier, there is no reason why any society anywhere in the world should have a greater % of paedophiles than any other. All that will differ is the amount of those paedos who actually abuse kids. Imho the extent of that abuse can be limited by the fear of consequences, ie a deterrent, long jail sentence & so on. In the past in the UK I would think there was indeed more child sexual abuse, the reasons are well documented. Nowadays with a combination of stronger laws, longer jail sentences & importantly greater awareness that allows abusers & potential abusers to be spotted, possibly less kids are being abused now than 30-40 or more yrs ago. Progress has been made.

The op was about Japan still allowing drawn pictures of child sex abuse. It does suggests that in Japan paedos might be able to get away with their crimes more so than the UK because Japananese law is more lax &/or Japanese attitudes to sexual abuse of kids more lax than in UK. In the UK many yrs ago I would say kids were abused because people would not face up to what was going on, possibly same in Japan now?

 

[Kesher]

I am concerned at how much Government intervenes in our private lives and it's getting worse, and there are inconsistencies in the Government's and many people's attitude to risk to children. For example: sex cartoons of children are banned; but asking your wife or girlfriend to dress up as a schoolgirl or shave her pubes is not. There is a far stronger link between alcohol and child abuse than the cartoons. Is anyone asking for a ban on alcohol on these grounds?

 

[Nancy_Winks]

My mams got a pic somewhere of me and my little brother as very young kids naked in a paddling pool. Should she be legally allowed to possess it? I actually don't think she should, she showed it to me girlfriend a while back, but I think she reckons she has a right to it.

Seemed to me you were saying you don't think your mum should have a legal right to possess a photo of you, as her child when you little, naked. I thought you meant it should be illegal. Which is fucking nuts of course

 

[dylanredefined]

i guess the questions i'd want to ask is "why do you want to look at drawings of children having sex? what purpose does it serve? how is it entertaining? why is this a thing?"

Well where do you draw the line seems to be the only argument for it? It ranges from creepy to simple bizarre.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

Age of consent across Europe according to wiki. Pretty shocking tbh if it's true. I think Spain may now be 16 actually...

Age Countries (links are to sections on this page)
13 Spain
14 Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Estonia,Germany, Hungary, Italy,Liechtenstein, Macedonia,Montenegro, Portugal, San Marino, Serbia
15 Croatia, Czech Republic,Denmark, France, Greece,Iceland, Monaco, Poland,Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia,Sweden
16 Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan,Belarus, Belgium, Finland,Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia,Lithuania, Luxembourg, Moldova,Netherlands, Northern Cyprus,Norway, Russia, Switzerland,Ukraine, United Kingdom

 

[Johnny Vodka]

The documentary cited in the OP is very interesting. Just listening to it now.

 

[Spymaster]

There is a far stronger link between alcohol and child abuse than the cartoons. Is anyone asking for a ban on alcohol on these grounds?

Alcohol is not produced specifically to facilitate child abuse or to enable its consumers to perv over child abuse.

Images of children being raped have absolutely no merit whatsoever to anyone who's not seeking to wank-off about raping kids.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Either you didn't read VP's post or you're making no sense. You appear to be arguing that the act of viewing extreme pornography would make someone want to replicate it, who previously had no such desire. This makes it very hard to explain where extreme pornography of this kind came from, since presumably by your logic if nobody had ever seen these acts performed then they would never harbor any desire to perform them.

Bingo!

 

[SpackleFrog]

There was no intention to be PC. I was stating the blindingly obvious. In any society where you can get away with crime there will be more crime. If you don't like 'primitive' or 'uncivilised' then call them medieval, this term is often used to describe the type of society ISIS wish to create for example. societies where men in general can abuse women & children without consequenses or punishment.

I'm not asking you to be PC, I'm asking you not to argue that 'civilised' European societies have less child abuse than 'uncivilised' societies.

I would say that you are not wrong. In any society there will be sexual abuse of kids by those sexually orientated towards kids. As I pointed out earlier, there is no reason why any society anywhere in the world should have a greater % of paedophiles than any other. All that will differ is the amount of those paedos who actually abuse kids. Imho the extent of that abuse can be limited by the fear of consequences, ie a deterrent, long jail sentence & so on. In the past in the UK I would think there was indeed more child sexual abuse, the reasons are well documented. Nowadays with a combination of stronger laws, longer jail sentences & importantly greater awareness that allows abusers & potential abusers to be spotted, possibly less kids are being abused now than 30-40 or more yrs ago. Progress has been made.

The op was about Japan still allowing drawn pictures of child sex abuse. It does suggests that in Japan paedos might be able to get away with their crimes more so than the UK because Japananese law is more lax &/or Japanese attitudes to sexual abuse of kids more lax than in UK. In the UK many yrs ago I would say kids were abused because people would not face up to what was going on, possibly same in Japan now?

You think it's useful to describe the 1970's and '80's as part of the medieval period?

Why do you think it's harder for paedophiles to get away with crimes now than it was thirty years ago? Can you show evidence of this? What do you think has changed?

 

[Sasaferrato]

Age of consent across Europe according to wiki. Pretty shocking tbh if it's true. I think Spain may now be 16 actually...

Age Countries (links are to sections on this page)
13 Spain
14 Albania, Austria, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Estonia,Germany, Hungary, Italy,Liechtenstein, Macedonia,Montenegro, Portugal, San Marino, Serbia
15 Croatia, Czech Republic,Denmark, France, Greece,Iceland, Monaco, Poland,Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia,Sweden
16 Andorra, Armenia, Azerbaijan,Belarus, Belgium, Finland,Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia,Lithuania, Luxembourg, Moldova,Netherlands, Northern Cyprus,Norway, Russia, Switzerland,Ukraine, United Kingdom

These ages are correct, however, you have missed some very important information. The ages of consent are closely linked to the ages of the participants. Too much detail for the post, but the info is there.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Seemed to me you were saying you don't think your mum should have a legal right to possess a photo of you, as her child when you little, naked. I thought you meant it should be illegal. Which is fucking nuts of course

Nah, was a 'reductio ad absurdium' I think. If I've understood what that is...

 

[SpackleFrog]

Bingo!

So where did this type of pornography come from?

 

[Kesher]

Alcohol is not produced specifically to facilitate child abuse or to enable its consumers to perv over child abuse.

Images of children being raped have absolutely no merit whatsoever to anyone who's not seeking to wank-off about raping kids.

So never mind about risk then: it's just the thought that counts. Really?

 

[Spymaster]

So never mind about risk then: it's just the thought that counts. Really?

We're not saying there's no risk. There may be.

That along with the fact that only perverts use this stuff satisfies me that banning it is no hardship.

 

[SpackleFrog]

We're not saying there's no risk. There may be.

That along with the fact that only perverts use this stuff satisfies me that banning it is no hardship.

Ignore Kesher, I don't think anyone disagrees with what you're saying - but what do we ban exactly?

 

[Kesher]

We're not saying there's no risk. There may be.

That along with the fact that only perverts use this stuff satisfies me that banning it is no hardship.

So you ignore the risk because you particularly don't like perverts even though these perverts are not harming children.

 

[Nancy_Winks]

Nah, was a 'reductio ad absurdium' I think. If I've understood what that is...

Oh

 

[SaskiaJayne]

I'm not asking you to be PC, I'm asking you not to argue that 'civilised' European societies have less child abuse than 'uncivilised' societies.



You think it's useful to describe the 1970's and '80's as part of the medieval period?

Why do you think it's harder for paedophiles to get away with crimes now than it was thirty years ago? Can you show evidence of this? What do you think has changed?

Societies that have lax or non existant laws on child sexual abuse will have more child sexual abuse because paedos will abuse if they can get away with it. If the deterrents are sufficient then many will not. Why should any society contain a higher % of people(mostly men)sexually orientated towards kids than any other? Of course its harder to get away with sexually abusing kids in the UK than it was 30yrs ago. This is proved by the amount of historic cases coming to court & not just 'high profile' ones. In some cases abusers were reported at the time & police did nothing. The reason its more difficult for paedos to abuse now is because there is more awareness of suspect behaviour, people are more suspicious. If a paedo starts trying to groom a child for example people would most likely notice, 30yrs ago probably not

You can try do derail the thread by twatting on about racism etc as much as you like but it is stating the blindly obvious to point out that paedos in any society anywhere in the world will abuse if they can get away with it but if there are dire consequenses for themselves if they do then perhaps less of them will do so.

 

[Spymaster]

So you ignore the risk because you particularly don't like perverts even though these perverts are not harming children.

Don't be stupid. You're the one categorically stating that it's not harming children, so unless you've got research to back that up the point's moot anyway.

If there is a risk to kids from these images, banning them's a good thing. If there's no risk to children it just deprives people of pictures of child rape.

Boo fucking hoo.