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Let's talk about Tár.

Petcha said:
I gather she's referring to the fact that the main protagonists are white, privileged people.

What parts did you find funny out of interest (genuine question). I found it all quite horrific. From start to finish. Not saying I don't think it was an incredible piece of film making. Brave move, making the abuser a woman, and the casting was brilliant. Blanchett (an Aussie) carrying out those long monologues in clipped a posh New England accent (I think) and then flipping to reasonable German later.

If having a movie featuring upper class people is automatically racist then where do we stop. Won't say anymore as it'll spoil it.
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It's about the ending (I believe), not the general lack of people of colour.
 
bmd said:
Where she's in Thailand? I'll have to have a listen to the podcast.
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It's meant to be the Philippines, I believe, despite signs being in Thai (was that discussion on here, or somewhere else?). From the article hitmouse posted:

My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events.
 
bmd said:
I can remember laughing out loud in a genuine way at a couple of places but not what I was laughing at. My gf said the same. I think it was brave but I also think that that in itself says something about the audience. Like, men do this and women do that. I don't really understand Marin Alsop's beef with it. She seems to be saying that it is about her. Maybe she needs to tell people to stop calling her Maestro? Can a woman be seperated from a powerful role and simply seen as a person in that role or is she spot on and this is just yet another way to undermine powerful women? Same as with the question of featuring white people? I am glad that roles are being rebalanced with more people of colour inhabiting them and yes I do think we have a way to go. Thinking about it now, there are mostly white people in it.
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It's a very white world, the classical music world. It would be a bit disingenuous to represent it than other than that. I hope that'll change.

He took a bit of a left field take on it, making the main protagonist a lesbian who wasn't overly pleased when her targets, despite her fame and influence were straight. That's an interesting take. And I think he did it very well. If Jane Campion had made it, I don't think there'd be such an outcry.
 
belboid said:
It's meant to be the Philippines, I believe, despite signs being in Thai (was that discussion on here, or somewhere else?). From the article hitmouse posted:

My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events.
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It's a weird point to raise. But if she wants to go there, filming in the Philippines is cheaper than Bangkok, it's done all the time. In much the same way many films allegedly in England are filmed in Ireland. But if she can't figure out that the extras are wearing Thai clothes, speaking Thai and all the signs being in Thai is supposed to be Thailand, well, then.

Just a bizarre thing to single out of a massively complex film.
 
belboid said:
It's meant to be the Philippines, I believe, despite signs being in Thai (was that discussion on here, or somewhere else?). From the article hitmouse posted:

My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events.
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Ah, nice one for clearing that up.

I've listened to the episode. It's from a podcast by Amy Taubin called The Last Thing I Saw, episode 142. The Tár review starts 19m 20s into the episode. She absolutely hates the film with a burning passion. She talks about Cate Blanchett's performance as wooden and completely unconvincing due to there being no difference in her performance at any point in the film. She thinks that the ending where Tár is cast out of polite society in Berlin to The Philipines is simply racist. She thinks the film is also sexist in that the ways Tár goes off the rails are exactly what a man would do.

I don't agree with her charge of racism against the film. Tár has gone from being the conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic to somewhere with much much less prestige amongst her peers. I'm actually reevaluating Blanchett's performance after hearing what she said about her acting but I don't feel like Taubin does in that she absolutely fucking hated it. With the sexist allegation I think the film is trying to say that power corrupts and that's not gender dependent but I can see what Taubin means rather than simply disagreeing with her.
 
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bmd said:
Ah, nice one for clearing that up.

I've listened to the episode. It's from a podcast by Amy Taubin called The Last Thing I Saw, episode 142. The Tár review starts 19m 20s into the episode. She absolutely hates the film with a burning passion. She talks about Cate Blanchetts performance as wooden and completely unconvincing due to there being no difference in her performance at any point in the film. She thinks that the ending where Tár is cast out of polite society in Berlin to The Philipines is simply racist. She thinks the film is also sexist in that the ways Tár goes off the rails are exactly what a man would do.

I don't agree with her charge of racism against the film. Tár has gone from being the conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic to somewhere with much much less prestige amongst her peers. I'm actually reevaluating Blanchett's performance after hearing what she said about her acting but I don't feel like Taubin does in that she absolutely fucking hated it. With the sexist allegation I think the film is trying to say that power corrupts and that's not gender dependent but I can see what Taubin means rather than simply disagreeing with her.
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I have no idea who Taubin is. But 'wooden'? It's the best performance of her life. She's supposed to be 'wooden'. That's the whole fucking point. An ice queen. Who ultimately gets shattered.

Who is this person? Never heard of her. But she clearly knows sweet fuck all about film, acting, geography, racism, humanity etc etc. Why is she even being quoted?
 
Petcha said:
I have no idea who Taubin is. But 'wooden'? It's the best performance of her life. She's supposed to be 'wooden'. That's the whole fucking point. An ice queen. Who ultimately gets shattered.

Who is this person? Never heard of her. But she clearly knows sweet fuck all about film, acting, geography, racism, humanity etc etc. Why is she even being quoted?
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That made me lol! She has this side kick on the podcast who is there to laugh when she swears. Who was it who said that opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one?

eta: shit, sorry belboid meant no disrespect. I just felt so at odds with her opinions that I wondered if this was some kind of publicity stunt.
 
belboid said:
It's meant to be the Philippines, I believe, despite signs being in Thai (was that discussion on here, or somewhere else?). From the article hitmouse posted:

My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events.
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I wasn't too sure what Othering was so I had a look. Here's a definition -

“Othering” is a term that not only encompasses the many expressions of prejudice on the basis of group identities, but we argue that it provides a clarifying frame that reveals a set of common processes and conditions that propagate group-based inequality and marginality.
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bmd said:
At the risk of being outed as a Cruise fan, I can't fault him here. He's looking after someone he feels has talent. I like loyal people a lot.
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I love Tom Cruise. I can almost picture him staring into the guy's eyes, pointing into his face saying this with fire in his eyes...

Cruise took Field out to dinner and told him: “You’re going to make movies.” Field deferred by mentioning a short story that he probably wouldn’t win the rights to, and Cruise replied “You’re just making excuses. Figure it out.”
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Petcha said:
There's a slightly different, and I'd say more considered, opinion of it here.

TÁR movie review & film summary (2022) | Roger Ebert

TÁR is that rarest of items: a prestige awards contender that’s also a genuine art film.
www.rogerebert.com www.rogerebert.com
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Name-checks Negativland. I'm all in.

Seriously though, that chimes with me. I found his statement interesting that she dotes on the child. I saw her physical touch, by holding the child's foot, as possibly indicative of a distance and a coldness.
 
Saw it this afternoon. Here's my take FWIW.

Tar is brilliant, charismatic, unpleasant, arrogant, predatory. In the discussion with the student about Bach, she's right if unkind in how she explains her points, especially given the power imbalance between them.

Is the film racist? I wouldn't say so.

Is it sexist/anti-women? No IMO.

Is Tar treated the same as a man who behaved in a similarly appalling fashion would be? IMO, no. She gets what she deserves but I suspect a man wouldn't be treated as harshly.

I thought this was excellent btw. Blanchett and Field deserve their Oscar nominations, Nina Hoss was also v good as ever.
 
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Have been pondering whether to go see this
'kin hell, a thread about a film! I better watch it then.

I laughed alot about some blogger thinking it was about a real conductor. As if?
 
Sue said:
Saw it this afternoon. Here's my take FWIW.

Tar is brilliant, charismatic, unpleasant, arrogant, predatory. In the discussion with the student about Bach, she's right if unkind in how she explains her points, especially given the power imbalance between them.

Is the film racist? I wouldn't say so.

Is it sexist/anti-women? No IMO.

Is Tar treated the same as a man who behaved in a similarly appalling fashion would be? IMO, no. She gets what she deserves but I suspect a man wouldn't be treated as harshly.

I thought this was excellent btw. Blanchett and Field deserve their Oscar nominations, Nina Hoss was also v good as ever.
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Did you think it was a 'comedy'?
 
It's a bizarre description from those reviews. you might as well call schindler's list a comedy at that point as it has one or two lighthearted moments. Tar is a drama, and a pretty upsetting one.
 
My attention span is a bit limited these days and it normally takes me two or three sittings to get through a film. I haven't made it past the interview at the start of Tár yet.
 
Brilliant film, I didn’t really understand the ending though! And yeah you're not supposed to like her at all, would be worried about someone who did tbh.
 
I thought the student in the Bach thing was a bit annoying but she definitely came across as a nasty piece of work in the way she went out her way to humiliate them/him.
 
Some links from the New Yorker if anyone is interested.
Interview with Todd Field

And also a pretty scathing review from the same magazine.

I've seen it now. I wonder if it would have been so powerful with a man as the lead? Blanchett is a wonder.
I'd recommend anyone to go if they have an interest in classical music. Even if not Mark Strong's wig is something to behold :D
 
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