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Let's talk about Tár.

bmd

Island in the stream.
I've just seen it at the Everyman in Leeds. There were 4 of us there. I asked the other couple what they thought at the end and they were very positive about it. I really enjoyed it. It's making me think about cancel culture.

Anyway! I'm not qualified to talk about the ins and outs of the cinematography or the directing or the writing, only what I liked. The reason I would like to talk about it is because once I'd seen it I wanted to understand it and so I started reading reviews and came across the opinions of others, like Marin Alsop's.

“To have an opportunity to portray a woman in that role and to make her an abuser — for me that was heartbreaking,” Alsop told the Times. “All women and all feminists should be bothered by that kind of depiction because it’s not really about women conductors, is it? It’s about women as leaders in our society. People ask, ‘Can we trust them? Can they function in that role?’ It’s the same questions whether it’s about a CEO or an NBA coach or the head of a police department.”

Monstrous maestro: why is Cate Blanchett’s cancel culture film Tár angering so many people?

Punters probably don’t need another reason to skip Tár, Todd Field’s much-discussed tale of a feted conductor who becomes a lightning rod for the #MeToo movement, but Marin Alsop was happy to oblige nonetheless. Tár, the US conductor told the Sunday Times, was “anti-woman” and a personal affront. The film could have told the story of a rapacious male monster, but chose instead to make its lead a female conductor. “To have an opportunity to portray a woman in that role and to make her an abuser,” Alsop said. “For me, that was heartbreaking.

Do films have a moral responsibililty? Would we be talking about this film at all if it was a male lead?

There's a scene early on that shows Tár disempowering a student of hers. I found it slightly clunky but it also lead to a very interesting discussion between my girlfriend and I, where she saw it very differently from me.





It would be wonderful to talk about this film with you all.
 
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Are there any parallels with Whiplash ?

Never considered that. Um, yeah, good point. I've just posted a YT link to the scene I talked about. I think that Whiplash focuses on the student whereas Tár is about her as a performer. Also, that scene is only one part of the whole whereas Whiplash kind of pivots on that relationship, iirc?
 
Some viewers and critics are appalled at a portrayal of an abusive woman.

Heartbreaking apparently. Not as heartbreaking as a refusal to investigate abuse because of the gender of the abuser (as was social work practice for decades) but hey.

I liked the article in the Guardian a bit on this subject.
 
It's the best film I've seen in a very long time.

Cate Blanchett is astonishing. Some of those sweeping scenes (in one take) with all the extras doing their bit too. But yeh, Blanchett nails it.

As for the message, yes, it is quite good sometimes to think outside the narrative we're all given. I (a bloke) was the subject of unwelcome attention from older women when I was an early 20yo pup (one time groped at my desk and another time discovering I'd been stalked by another. It's not all one way traffic.

As to cancel culture, I fundamentally disagree with it, with a few exceptions. I'm capable of separating the art from the artist. I'm not going to suddenly hate Polanski films or Michael Jackson's music. Both of which are brilliant. Both the artists were vile creatures though. Much as Tar is. But, and I know it's fiction, she was an incredible artist.
 
I saw a headline asking “is it racist?” But then the article didn’t discuss that any further. Just stated it had been accused of being so, then went on to discuss sexual predation, and the views of women and lesbians on the way the character was portrayed. So I’m no wiser on whether it might be racist.
 
I saw a headline asking “is it racist?” But then it didn’t discuss that any further. Just stated it had been accused of being so, then went on to discuss sexual predation, and the views of women and lesbians on the way the character was portrayed. So I’m no wiser on whether it might be racist.

Racist? Hmm... I certainly don't recall any racism. That's a bit weird. There was only one black character in it (briefly), who she tried to humiliate on the basis that he didn't like Bach, and then he basically told her to fuck off, but race wasn't an issue. Just her power as a leading professional.

Anyway it's out there on the torrents ;)
 
Racist? Hmm... I certainly don't recall any racism. That's a bit weird. There was only one black character in it (briefly), who she tried to humiliate on the basis that he didn't like Bach, and then he basically told her to fuck off, but race wasn't an issue. Just her power as a leading professional.

Anyway it's out there on the torrents ;)
 
OK, I've now dug into this (perhaps a waste of my and everyone's time, but beats working) - the charge seems to come from this podcast:
Which I've not bothered listening to, but the person in question also wrote this article:
Todd Field’s imbecilic and carelessly racist TÁR. My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events. There were lots of bad movies in the sixtieth New York Film Festival, but TÁR (now in theaters) was one of the worst.
 
OK, I've now dug into this (perhaps a waste of my and everyone's time, but beats working) - the charge seems to come from this podcast:
Which I've not bothered listening to, but the person in question also wrote this article:
Todd Field’s imbecilic and carelessly racist TÁR. My charge is based on a single cut. In attempting to convey how far Lydia Tár has fallen, Field cuts from the concert halls and trophy residential real estate of Berlin and New York (the location of 98 percent of the film) to the filthy streets and decaying buildings of an unnamed Southeast Asian country, where in the closing minutes she is embraced by an audience of “others” who turn her concerts into cosplay events. There were lots of bad movies in the sixtieth New York Film Festival, but TÁR (now in theaters) was one of the worst.


Bonkers.

Lol... Does this unnamed SE Asian country need a massive 'Welcome to Bangkok' sign on it for the four minutes it's actually in it?

And anyone who thinks there's anything slightly comedic about this film, that's comedy in itself. Um as for the 'trophy' residential estates in Berlin. Where exactly did the stalkee live there? It was a squat. A really really bad one.
 
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Some viewers and critics are appalled at a portrayal of an abusive woman.

Heartbreaking apparently. Not as heartbreaking as a refusal to investigate abuse because of the gender of the abuser (as was social work practice for decades) but hey.

I liked the article in the Guardian a bit on this subject.
Who said it's 'not as heartbraking'?
 
Racist? Hmm... I certainly don't recall any racism. That's a bit weird. There was only one black character in it (briefly), who she tried to humiliate on the basis that he didn't like Bach, and then he basically told her to fuck off, but race wasn't an issue. Just her power as a leading professional.

Anyway it's out there on the torrents ;)

There's a piece on YT which I've inclued in the OP that deconstructs the scene.
 
Bonkers.

Lol... Does this unnamed SE Asian country need a massive 'Welcome to Bangkok' sign on it for the four minutes it's actually in it?

And anyone who thinks there's anything slightly comedic about this film, that's comedy in itself. Um as for the 'trophy' residential estates in Berlin. Where exactly did the stalkee live there? It was a squat. A really really bad one.

It's the Philipines, apparently.
 
I saw it and thought it was very good indeed. Made me think a bit deeper about cancel culture, which is the way with me when something comes in at a different angle

I actually most like films that have unlikeable leads (e.g. Phantom Thread). Just wish the ticket-buying masses did also
 
I can't read that, need an app. But 'comedy'? :D :confused:
Here you go - crappy formatting n all:


Is T#225;r racist? Director Todd Field weighs in


The director talks about his acclaimed black comedy, Tár – a Cate Blanchett-led study of power, ‘cancel culture’ and human fallibility


T#225;r



“Todd Field is a terrible name,” says Todd Field, with a sigh. “You have Todd-deh Field-deh. It doesn’t roll off your tongue.” Born William Todd Field, the 58-year-old American writer-director reverted to his middle name as a child after a paediatrician called him Billy in a sing-song manner. “At film school, I went by William Field until my thesis project, and that was a big discussion with my wife.” Upon listing the difficulties of ordering coffee as Todd, the artist formerly known as William pauses: why are we discussing this again?


Field is in London for the UK premiere of Tár, speaking to me the week of its theatrical release. Starring Cate Blanchett, the black-as-tar comedy documents the downfall of Lydia Tár, an EGOT-winning conductor who, in celebrity terms, is the Cate Blanchett of classical music. Truth is, Lydia’s real name is Linda Tarr, just one of the secrets the Berlin-based maestro (she refutes the label of “maestra”) hides beneath her silky menswear wardrobe and snarky one-liners. In fact, Tár – or Tarr – feels so three-dimensional, many viewers initially mistook Tár for a biopic.


Though Field refers to himself as a jazz guy, his screenplay conveys a rich understanding of Lydia’s lifelong expertise. During 2020’s first lockdown, the director spent a month in conversation with John Mauceri, a conductor and former assistant to Leonard Bernstein. “There was so much quotidian dialogue and arcana that only someone of John’s background would know,” Field explains. “The other part is Cate Blanchett.” In a storytelling gamble, Tár opens with Lydia being grilled onstage for 15 minutes at the New Yorker Festival by the magazine’s Adam Gopnik, playing himself. “You have no doubt you’ve just sat in on an interview with Lydia Tár. Well, that’s Cate.”


Tár is only Field’s third feature as a director. After acting in the 90s (he was a scene-stealer in two of the decade’s finest movies, Walking and Talking and Eyes Wide Shut), Field helmed two Oscar-nominated movies in 2001’s In the Bedroom and 2006’s Little Children. During his 16-year hiatus, he directed flashy advertisements and was a prolific screenwriter (he tells me, knocking on wood, that he’s never experienced writer’s block) for unproduced projects such as As It Happens, a movie co-written with Joan Didion that, if made, would have starred Blanchett.


As it happens, Field wrote Tár specifically for Blanchett, the latter learning German, piano, and conducting for the role. With its rapid turnaround, Tár is also a contemporary film: it’s a post-pandemic, #MeToo-acknowledging social satire that’s been repeatedly referred to in reviews as a story about “cancel culture”. However, those two words are never uttered onscreen.


“This film, if it took place 10 years ago, the tools of that house of cards coming down would be different,” Field says. “[Terms like ‘cancel culture’] wouldn’t be used. But this film takes place in three weeks in November 2022. We understand these ubiquitous terms, and we can have opinions on what they mean, or don’t mean, to us personally. And those things, I’m not particularly interested in.”


He continues, “White, patriarchal abuse of power has been going on for as long as we have a human history. As long as there’s western civilisation, this has been taking place. There’s going to be a wild swing of the scales of justice that might feel a little bit hard to understand, and they should, because there has to be a violent reaction, so we can find whatever the centre is going to be, to where there is a reasonable idea of human behaviour.”


After several hints and nightmare sequences that suggest Field absorbed a few Kubrickisms from Eyes Wide Shut, Tár reveals via a New York Post article that Lydia repeatedly offered job opportunities to young women in exchange for sex; if anyone refused, she strived to blacklist them from the industry. I bring up the theory that Louis CK’s productivity during his heyday was due to paranoia that his career could destruct at any moment.


“Oh, that Louis CK was running from the devil?” says Field. “I never thought about it like that. She’s driven. A lot of it’s to do with what she’s seen as her only salvation from a very challenging upbringing with no culture and no exposure to the arts.” He points to the corner of the room in a manner that doesn’t really translate to a written interview. “She saw a light coming out that door, and ran for it. A lot of times, people who come from humble beginnings, reach higher, because they don’t realise how impossible it is. Ultimately, sometimes they get higher, because they haven’t self-edited themselves in terms of how far that reaches.


“Lydia’s dilemma is that she started out with an open heart with music that she truly fell hard for, and took an almost devotional vow, as if she was going into a monastery. But now her life is different. She’s turning 50. She’s turned her back on what she loved when she was younger. Does it really matter if somebody else makes another recording of Mahler’s Fifth Symphony?” I note that, like Tár, Decision to Leave heavily incorporates Mahler’s Fifth. “It’s fair game. Visconti got there first, right?”


Amidst five-star reviews (we named it the best film of 2022) and the likelihood that Blanchett will win the Best Actress Oscar, Tár has also faced high-profile criticism. Amy Taubin called it “the most racist shit I have ever seen”. Marin Alsop, a conductor namechecked by Lydia, commented to the Sunday Times, “I was offended as a woman, I was offended as a conductor, I was offended as a lesbian.” Filmmakers often claim that art is up to the viewer’s interpretation. But what about the incendiary responses?


“Our hope in making this film is that it would inspire conversation and debate, and that that would be loud, opinionated, and ferocious,” Field says. “So I think that’s great. You mentioned Amy. I’ve read Amy for years. She was the first champion of my first film. I was surprised by the way she read the film – obviously I don’t agree with it – but she’s entitled to her opinion. Marin’s entitled to her opinion. I don’t understand that opinion but she’s entitled to it.” He adds, “The thing is, power has no gender. Power has no race.”


Next month, the Tár franchise continues with The Fundraiser, a Tár-adjacent short set to premiere at the Berlinale. In the meantime, Field wishes for Tár to speak for itself, although he can’t resist telling me, “She’s looking in the rear-view mirror, thinking, ‘At what cost did I get here? Who did I trample on?’ It’s not a film about a conductor or concert music. This is a film about power. What are the compromises that are allowed concerning power, whether you hold it, whether you want to hold it, whether you want to have an association with it? That’s very different from saying, ‘I want to make art.’ She’s sitting on top of this huge cultural bureaucracy. She’s playing politics, and sometimes not very well. She’s making decisions based on her experience, her expertise, her capriciousness, her hypocrisy, and her allergies. In short, she’s a human being.”


TÁR opens exclusively in UK cinemas on January 13


 
It refers repeatedly to it as a 'comedy'. Does anyone here who has actually seen this think it was a comedy?

It also says its a 'satire'. Again, I don't recognise that description. Satire for me The Thick of It. Not a very serious film about sexual harassment.

Oh this bit... Amy Taubin called it “the most racist shit I have ever seen”.

Equally batshit
 
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It refers repeatedly to it as a 'comedy'. Does anyone here who has actually seen this think it was a comedy?

It also says its a 'satire'. Again, I don't recognise that description. Satire for me The Thick of It. Not a very serious film about sexual harassment.

Oh this bit... Amy Taubin called it “the most racist shit I have ever seen”.

Equally batshit
"It" ?
 
Yes. The film. "It"

wtf?
OK, I thought this was some new form of gender-neutral language, as you seem to be referring to the article (with a male subject)

Perhaps then: 'It is referred to repeatedly as a 'comedy''; 'It is also said to be a 'satire''
 
OK, I thought this was some new form of gender-neutral language, as you seem to be referring to the article (with a male subject)

Perhaps then: 'It is referred to repeatedly as a 'comedy''; 'It is also said to be a 'satire''

Er... actual lol. No actual idea what you're on about. The article is an 'It' to me. As is the film. What am I supposed to call either of them. And what 'male subject'? :confused:
 
It refers repeatedly to it as a 'comedy'. Does anyone here who has actually seen this think it was a comedy?

It also says its a 'satire'. Again, I don't recognise that description. Satire for me The Thick of It. Not a very serious film about sexual harassment.

Oh this bit... Amy Taubin called it “the most racist shit I have ever seen”.

Equally batshit

I can relate to some of the Dazed piece and other parts seem a bit bizarre, like the piece is satirical but not about the film itself. I've seen someone on YT talk about Tár as being about power and I think that's fair but I also do think it says a lot about cancel culture. It talks about it in the part where she challenges her student about his thoughts on Bach and why he doesn't like the music of cis white males. I did find parts of it pretty funny but I didn't leave feeling like I'd seen a comedy. So no, imo, it's wide of the mark there. Racist? What part does Amy Taubin think was racist? I'm guessing if it was "the most racist shit ever" then it must be all of it? Again, I didn't leave feeling like that either. There's some wild old stuff being talked about this film.
 
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I think parts of the piece you posted are talked about by people talking about the film. I've seen someone on YT talk about Tár as being about power and I think that's fair but I also do think it says a lot about cancel culture. It talks about it in the part where she challenges her student about his thoughts on Bach and why he doesn't like the music of cis white males. I did find parts of it pretty funny but I didn't leave feeling like I'd seen a comedy. So no, imo, it's wide of the mark there. Racist? What part does Amy Taubin think was racist? I'm guessing if it was "the most racist shit ever" then it must be all of it? Again, I didn't leave feeling like that either. There's some wild old stuff being talked about this film.

I gather she's referring to the fact that the main protagonists are white, privileged people.

What parts did you find funny out of interest (genuine question). I found it all quite horrific. From start to finish. Not saying I don't think it was an incredible piece of film making. Brave move, making the abuser a woman, and the casting was brilliant. Blanchett (an Aussie) carrying out those long monologues in clipped a posh New England accent (I think) and then flipping to reasonable German later.

If having a movie featuring upper class people is automatically racist then where do we stop. Won't say anymore as it'll spoil it.
 
I gather she's referring to the fact that the main protagonists are white, privileged people.

What parts did you find funny out of interest (genuine question). I found it all quite horrific. From start to finish. Not saying I don't think it was an incredible piece of film making. Brave move, making the abuser a woman, and the casting was brilliant. Blanchett (an Aussie) carrying out those long monologues in clipped a posh New England accent (I think) and then flipping to reasonable German later.

If having a movie featuring upper class people is automatically racist then where do we stop. Won't say anymore as it'll spoil it.

I can remember laughing out loud in a genuine way at a couple of places but not what I was laughing at. My gf said the same. I think it was brave but I also think that that in itself says something about the audience. Like, men do this and women do that. I don't really understand Marin Alsop's beef with it. She seems to be saying that it is about her. Maybe she needs to tell people to stop calling her Maestro? Can a woman be seperated from a powerful role and simply seen as a person in that role or is she spot on and this is just yet another way to undermine powerful women? Same as with the question of featuring white people? I am glad that roles are being rebalanced with more people of colour inhabiting them and yes I do think we have a way to go. Thinking about it now, there are mostly white people in it.
 
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