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it was fifty years ago today! who can remember decimal day?

I didn't do any lasting damage


VAT was another challenge a few years later. I worked there that summer too.

Did they invite you back for the centenary? To tell rambling anecdotes to the youngsters?
 
I see your old money and raise you old distances


Eta: With a cricket pitch of course being a chain.

There is a degree of practicality to those measurements, despite the ludicrous number. Decimal has a bit of an exponential problem... I think that’s why imperial hangs about in trades. It just provides more frames of reference. I still order timber in cubic feet for example, because a cubic foot is just a reasonable amount of timber. Whereas ‘yeah, I’ll take about 0.03 cubic meters’ is er... less easy to work with. I do all my marking and measuring in mm of course, and usually end up converting from cubic meters to cubic feet... which is somewhat ridiculous. But even as someone born in the eighties it is just easier to approximate with the interim amounts imperial measurements provide.
 
I like that Chinese measurements retain some old units, but converted to metric. Eg a jin is half a kg, a gongjin is a kg, a li is 500m, a gongli is 1km. Not sure how common it is to do that with smaller measurements... my practical mandarin isn’t great.
 
I like that Chinese measurements retain some old units, but converted to metric. Eg a jin is half a kg, a gongjin is a kg, a li is 500m, a gongli is 1km. Not sure how common it is to do that with smaller measurements... my practical mandarin isn’t great.
The French do this, too - or did. You could buy un livre ("a pound") of, eg, vegetables, which got you half a kilo.
 
Not really. The two shilling coin (the florin) became the new 10p piece, but the shilling left the currency system so there was no equivalence. If you'd asked people how much two shillings were "in new money" soon after decimalisation I reckon they'd have said 24p. A shilling being 5p only made sense insofar as the coin itself remained valued at one twentieth of a pound, like the old shilling (12d in 240d - 5p in 100p).
The 5p and 10p coins came into circulation in 1968 as replacements to the shilling, florin, and in 1969 the 50p coin replaced the 10 shilling note. So we had 2-3 years of those coins in circulation before decimalisation. Also, the sixpence, shilling and florin (2½p, 5p, and 10p remained in circulation for some time after decimalisation.
My parents took over a sweet shop in January 1971, one month before the changeover to a fully decimalised system. We had conversion charts on display to show the equivalent values. Also, many items had their prices displayed in both currencies.
I worked in the shop after school and at weekends, and remember helping some old people, who were confused by the change. Everyone else managed to understand the differences.
 
I like that Chinese measurements retain some old units, but converted to metric. Eg a jin is half a kg, a gongjin is a kg, a li is 500m, a gongli is 1km. Not sure how common it is to do that with smaller measurements... my practical mandarin isn’t great.

In Germany a "Pfund" (pound) is 500g, actually slightly more than a pound, while in Spain "una pinta" is 0.5L, just a bit less than a pint.
 
" A guinea was considered a more gentlemanly amount than £1. You paid tradesmen, such as a carpenter, in pounds but gentlemen, such as an artist, in guineas. "
:facepalm:
also a guinea gets its name from coins minted as a result of the British slave trade/gold taken from Guinea in western africa

‘Not for nothing did a coin – the guinea – derive its etymology from the West African region of that name, the area from which hundreds of thousands of indigenous people were seized against their will. For traders in 17th and 18th-century Britain, the stigmatised African was quite literally a unit of currency.’

1614520658044.jpeg
 
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Those of us starting school in the mid 60's were, for a while, taught the duel systems of money & measurements.
I blame my ensuing confusion with Maths on this muddling mash-up.
Luckily for me , I started school in 1969 and we had none of that Bob ,Florin ,shilling,sixpence business.
 
I didn't do any lasting damage


VAT was another challenge a few years later. I worked there that summer too.
I worked in a similar place in the early 80s, they poached me from the Greengrocers nearby , they offered me £1.50 an hour :cool: which was a hefty jump from my £1.12 an hour , plus Greengrocer man was due to retire .

 
No more school problems like "If 14 pieces of pie crust cost 18/3d and 6 apples cost 13/5d how much does it cost to make 13 apple crumbles?"

Three pounds seventeen shillings and sixpence three farthings more like. :)

I walked into the room. Sat down. Turned over my 'O' Level arithmetic paper.

We had been taught in feet and shillings. The paper was meters and centimetres.

Thirty seconds of absolute panic, until the realisation set in, that in comparison, this was a piece of piss. We were all out in half an hour, and all passed. (Only pass or fail then.).
 
Though the new currency did give us head like a 50p piece for a striker who puts its anywhere but in the goal.
Like Scotland keeping names like 80 shilling ale which IIRC was the duty on a barrel, varying by strength.
 
also a guinea gets its name from coins minted as a result of the British slave trade/gold taken from Guinea in western africa

‘Not for nothing did a coin – the guinea – derive its etymology from the West African region of that name, the area from which hundreds of thousands of indigenous people were seized against their will. For traders in 17th and 18th-century Britain, the stigmatised African was quite literally a unit of currency.’

View attachment 256598
Guinea referred to a different, much larger part of west Africa in the 1660s when the British coins were first minted, as this map from 1682 shows:

57555.jpg
 
so complicated ! :D


Before decimalization on 15 February 1971, there were twenty (20) shillings per pound.

shilling
The shilling was subdivided into twelve (12) pennies.

The penny was further sub-divided into two halfpennies or four farthings (quarter pennies).



More than a pound (£)

1 guinea and a £5.0.0 note

1 guinea = £1-1s-0d ( £1/1/- ) = one pound and one shilling = 21 shillings or 21/- (which is £1.05 in todays money)

1 guinea could be written as '1g' or '1gn'.

A guinea was considered a more gentlemanly amount than £1. You paid tradesmen, such as a carpenter, in pounds but gentlemen, such as an artist, in guineas.

A third of a guinea equalled exactly seven shillings.


Less than a pound (£)

Shilling and pennies​

"Bob" is slang for shilling (which is 5p in todays money)

shilling
1 shilling equalled twelve pence (12d).

£1 (one pound) equalled 20 shillings (20s or 20/-)

240 pennies ( 240d ) = £1

There were 240 pennies to a pound because originally 240 silver penny coins weighed 1 pound (1lb).

A sum of £3 12s 6d was normally written as £3-12-6, but a sum of 12s 6d was normally recorded as 12/6.

Amounts less than a pound were also written as:

12/6 meaning 12s-6d

10/- meaning ten shillings.

An amount such as 12/6 would be pronounced 'twelve and six' as a more casual form of 'twelve shillings and sixpence'.

More than a Shilling (s. or /- )
Coins of more than one shilling ( 1/- ) but less than £1 in value were:

a florin (a two shillings or 2 bob or 2 bob bit)10 x 2/- = £1
a half-crown ( 2/6d) (2 shillings and 6 pence)8 x 2/6d = £1
a crown (5/-) (five shillings or 5 bob)4 x 5/- = £1
a half-sovereign (ten shillings or 10 bob)2 x 10/- = £1
a half-guinea (10/6d) (10 shillings and 6 pence)2 x 10/6d = £1/1/-

Less than a Shilling (s. or /- )

Other coins of a value less than 1/- were1/- (shilling) =
a half-groat (2d)6 x 2d = 1/-
a threepenny bit (threepence) (3d) made of silver4 x 3d. = 1/-
a groat (4d)
There were four pennies in a groat
3 x 4d = 1/-
a sixpence (silver) often called a 'tanner'2 x 6d = 1/-
a penny (copper) often called a 'copper'12 x 1d = 1/-
The word threepence would often be pronounced as though there was only a single middle "e", therefore "thre-pence". The slang name for the coin was Joey.

Penny coins were referred to as 'coppers'

Less than a penny (d)
Pennies were broken down into other coins:

a farthing= ¼ of a penny (1/4d)
a halfpenny
(pronounced 'hay-p'ny')
= ½ of a penny (1/2d)
farthing
halfpenny

Farthing
Diameter : 20.0 mm ; Weight : 2.8 grams

Half Penny
Diameter : 25.0 mm ; Weight : 5.7 grams

Other names for coins
A shilling was often called a 'bob'.
"It cost me four bob."

Five shilling piece or crown was sometimes called a dollar

sixpence (silver) - often called a 'tanner'

A penny was often called a 'copper' after the metal it was minted from.

Old money conversions to money used today

  • Sixpence - 2½p
  • One shilling (or 'bob') - 5p
  • Half a crown (2 shillings and sixpence) - 12½p
  • One guinea - £1.05

Actually, even the farthing was subdivided in Victoria's time.

P9KFi2r.jpg


HVJZEWE.jpg
 
also a guinea gets its name from coins minted as a result of the British slave trade/gold taken from Guinea in western africa

‘Not for nothing did a coin – the guinea – derive its etymology from the West African region of that name, the area from which hundreds of thousands of indigenous people were seized against their will. For traders in 17th and 18th-century Britain, the stigmatised African was quite literally a unit of currency.’

View attachment 256598
Nope, but thanks for playing.

" The name came from the Guinea region in West Africa, from where much of the gold used to make the coins was sourced"

 
I'm thinking that Guinea was associated with gold well before London joined the Atlantic slave trade.
The Portuguese sailed round to west Africa in the mid-1400s in search of the 'River of Gold', to cut out the Muslim middlemen who'd been bringing gold to Europe across the Sahara. As soon as they set up their trading post at Elmina they found they could buy enslaved people as well as gold. They were soon followed by the Dutch, British, etc.

At first exporting captives back to Europe and the colonies in America was relatively small scale, as gold was the main objective. Some of the kingdoms on the Guinea coast wouldn't allow enslaved people bought there to be taken overseas.

Over the next 200 years contact with Europe caused all manner of disruption to the west African kingdoms. Europeans were importing consumables such as copper, iron and cloth, as well as the west African currency of Cowrie shells, in exchange for gold and enslaved people. The consumables were consumed while the gold kept its value and the export of enslaved people led to a labour shortage, all causing an imbalance of wealth. The huge quantities of Cowrie shells imported led to rampant inflation. The cost of buying enslaved people dropped. There was a rise of the imports of guns, which combined with the economic instability, led to increased warfare between African kingdoms, with the inevitable upheaval.

In the 1600s as sugar plantations really took off in the Caribbean demand for enslaved labour rocketed. Impoverished African kings found this was a ready source of income to maintain their position and the horrific industrialised Atlanic slave trade took off. By the 1660s, when Guinea coins were first minted, this transition to the industrialised export of enslaved people was well underway.
 
I'm thinking that Guinea was associated with gold well before London joined the Atlantic slave trade.
Specifically this lot


Rare Money Blog
Upcoming NYINC Highlight Gold Guineas
The “Elephant & Castle” and the Birth of the Gold Guinea
By Jeremy Bostwick, Senior Numismatist & Cataloger
Author: Jeremy Bostwick / Thursday, September 05, 2019 / Categories: World Coin of the Week


Following the turbulent times of the brief English Republic and the restoration of the monarchy in 1660, the House of Stuart undertook to increase the supply of gold coinage in use, as there was a distinct lack of it within the kingdom. Accordingly, a royal charter was established, granting to the "Company of Royal Adventurers Trading to Africa" a monopoly over trade on the west coast of Africa. The rich deposits of natural resources, including gold, made this area a hotbed for colonial pursuit by other European powers as well, such as the Dutch Republic. In less than five years, the company found itself at odds with its Dutch rival, ultimately engaging the latter in a conflict that was part of the Second Anglo-Dutch War, a contest that would also plunge the company into severe debt.

Logo_of_the_Royal_African_Company.jpg


Rising again in 1672, the company restructured with a new, narrower name—the Royal African Company—and a new, broader focus—adding the slave trade into its enterprise. This ignominious addition allowed the company to recover prior losses and prove profitable by supplying the triangular trade between the West Indies and the Americas. After the Glorious Revolution in 1688 and the installation of Anglican Mary Stuart with her Dutch husband William—and the toppling of Catholic James II, Mary's father—the company lost its monopoly, though it continued to increase its presence in and profitability from the slave trade. This continued until 1731, when it was abandoned and there was a refocus upon other local resources.

Returning to the company's initial objective, the mining of gold was a success, as the supply of the precious metal began to flow into the kingdom in the 1660s, allowing the mint to increase the supply of hard currency at the same time that it was adopting more modern manufacturing in the form of milled, rather than hammered, coinage. This new thicker gold issue would eventually be known as the "guinea," along with its multiples thereof, with the name deriving from one of the areas in which the precious metal was sourced—Guinea being the regional name for the southern coast of West Africa. In a nod to the source of the gold, a portion of the company's logo, an elephant, was placed below the truncation of the monarch's neck. In order to further reinforce the role that the crown held in the company's affairs, later issues featured a castle atop the elephant. These charming notations can be seen on issues from Charles II, James II, and William and Mary, all of which are enthusiastically collected today and are rather rare due to many having been melted down for recoinage in the 18th century.

Two such 5 Guinea issues, a 1688 of James II (NGC AU-58) and a 1692 of William and Mary (NGC MS-62), will be among the many exceptional rarities in our upcoming auction held in conjunction with the New York International Numismatic Convention (NYINC) in January 2020. These two pieces, both emanating from the prestigious Marlborough-Blenheim Collection, display radiant luster along with the iconic "elephant & castle" below the busts. Look for these along with numerous other highlights as we approach this tremendous sale.

To view our upcoming auction schedule and future etc
 
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