Is Trumpism fascism?

[Jeff Robinson]

Can the political movement led by the American con-artist, pedophile, serial rapist and would-be dictator Donald J Trump be classified as fascist?

These are some features of Trumpism in 2024 noted by Nathan J Robinson:

1. Trump plans to build a giant network of “detention” camps and empower the federal government to round up millions of people without any due process
2. Trump insists that Democrats and leftists imperil the foundations of civilization, and has promised to “root out” the “threats from within.”
3. Trump is an aspiring dictator who would have simply defied the election result and remained in power if he had been able to.
4. Trump is now angry and vengeful, and determined to punish those who forced him from office.
5. Trump and the Republicans have a sweeping radical plan called Project 2025, part of which involves purging tens of thousands of civil servants from the federal government to eliminate potential opposition to his plans.
6. Trump has no qualms about killing people without trial and openly encourages police brutality.

Take Trump Seriously When He Vows To Build The Camps

Trump is openly planning to build a vast network of internment facilities, while railing against “internal threats” and calling his enemies “vermin” and vowing to “root them out.” The warning signs of fascism have never been more obvious or alarming.

www.currentaffairs.org

I would also add that;

7. Trump has strong connections to far right street violence (Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Patriot Prayer, his thugish security at his Nuremberg-style rallies, Jan 6 insurrectionists etc.)

Umberto Eco famously identifies 14 features of fascism:

• The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”
• The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”
• The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”
• Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”
• Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
• Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”
• The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”
• The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
• Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”
• Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”
• Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
• Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
• Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”
• Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”

I would contend that Trumpism basically satisfies every one of these.

Then there's also this definition from Luis Britto Garcia:

1. "Fascism is the absolute complicity between big capital and the State": When the interests of capitalism are aligned with politics, fascism approaches.
2. "Fascism denies the class struggle, but it is the armed arm of capital in it": Fascists fear monger lower classes about impending economic crises and enlists such individuals into their ranks to avoid competition with unions, workers and other social groups.
3. "Fascism summons the masses, but it is elitist": Though appealing to the lower classes, aristocracies and the upper-class enforce an authoritarian hierarchy through fascism to maintain their own standing.
4. "Fascism is racist": Cultures and races are targeted by fascists to support their purposes.
5. "Fascism and capitalism have abhorrent faces that need masks": Revolutionary language, plans and symbolism are stolen and repurposed by fascists.
6. "Fascism is blessed": Some religious groups typically support fascist movements, providing their blessing.
7. "Fascism is misogynistic": Women are not represented as being independent or recognized for their achievements in fascism.
8. "Fascism is anti-intellectual": Noting the scientific progress achieved by progressivism, Britto Garcia writes "Fascism does not invent, it recycles. It only believes in yesterday, an imaginary yesterday that never existed."

All but arguably number 5 are clearly met by Trumpism.

So, any reason to think that Trumpism is not fascism?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd say it meets all eight of the criteria in Britto Garcia's list. It definitely meets 6. The religious right are a major part of his base and they pray for him! I don't think fascism does necessarily need to be misogynistic, although Trumpism certainly is.

I like that line that 'It only believes in yesterday, an imaginary yesterday that never existed'. That's the core of MAGA.

In short, yes it is clearly fascist. That's been clear from the start really. I would add that a major feature of fascism is that it seeks to subvert or destroy democratic institutions. The US's institutions just about held out and got rid of him first time around. They will of course be tested again if he gets in again.

 

[danny la rouge]

I agree, Jeff. I used to think not, but I changed my mind on that after the capitol riots. And I’m loathe to use the term “fascism” inappropriately, because I don’t want to devalue it.

 

[danny la rouge]

It definitely meets 6. The religious right are a major part of his base and they pray for him!

Agreed.

 

[Cloo]

Fascism can be devalued of course not all fascism is Nazism but left unchecked will likely go the same way. One thing I find interesting about America is that the miltia nuts go on about how they need their guns so they can combat a corrupt or anti-'Freedom' government. But Jan 6th showed us exactly who 'good men with guns' side with when profound corruption and oppression raises its ugly head.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'd say Trumpism is fascist, but that winning power through elections isn't enough for a fascist to create a fascist state. Mussolini and Hitler swiftly dismantled the constitutional restraints on their power as soon as they were in office. That's key. The likes of Putin and Erdogan have had success in doing that. Trump couldn't do it in his first term, and I don't think he would be able to in his second term either. He's a wannabe fascist dictator but that doesn't mean he ever will be a fascist dictator.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say Trumpism is fascist, but that winning power through elections isn't enough for a fascist to create a fascist state. Mussolini and Hitler swiftly dismantled the constitutional restraints on their power as soon as they were in office. That's key. The likes of Putin and Erdogan have had success in doing that. Trump couldn't do it in his first term, and I don't think he would be able to in his second term either. He's a wannabe fascist dictator but that doesn't mean he ever will be a fascist dictator.

you say that. but i'm sure we all remember him packing the supreme court and appointing a fuck load of other federal judges, who will loosen such restraints. these things take time and in any second term he won't be pissing about.

 

[A380]

Not sure he’ll last long when he starts denying the big farming concerns of cheap undocumented migrant labour and the large military companies their lucrative government funded and back door subsidised contracts. The only question will be heat attack or aneurism…

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I'd say it meets all eight of the criteria in Britto Garcia's list. It definitely meets 6. The religious right are a major part of his base and they pray for him! I don't think fascism does necessarily need to be misogynistic, although Trumpism certainly is.

I like that line that 'It only believes in yesterday, an imaginary yesterday that never existed'. That's the core of MAGA.

In short, yes it is clearly fascist. That's been clear from the start really. I would add that a major feature of fascism is that it seeks to subvert or destroy democratic institutions. The US's institutions just about held out and got rid of him first time around. They will of course be tested again if he gets in again.

You're right, sorry I meant criteria 5 about the appropriation of 'Revolutionary language' was the one I am not sure of. Whereas the Nazis and so on adopted aspects of the langauge and symbolism of socialism, Trumpism is staunchly anti-socialist and anti-revolutionary. That said talk of the 'deep state', 'globalism', 'big tech', 'big pharma' and 'draining the swamp' does somewhat resemble left-populist critiques of the status quo.

 

[petee]

All but arguably number 6 are clearly met by Trumpism.

oh that one's met too.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You're right, sorry I meant criteria 5 about the appropriation of 'Revolutionary language' was the one I am not sure of. Whereas the Nazis and so on adopted aspects of the langauge and symbolism of socialism, Trumpism is staunchly anti-socialist and anti-revolutionary. That said talk of the 'deep state', 'globalism', 'big tech', 'big pharma' and 'draining the swamp' does somewhat resemble left-populist critiques of the status quo.

Yes I think there are aspects of it but not in the same way as Mussolini or Hitler. However, with checklists like this I don't think it's necessary to hit every one. For instance, Mussolini fails the religion point. Franco framed himself as an ultra-traditionalist.

For me, the key aspects of fascism are corporatism, with a vertical view of society as opposed to a horizontal class-based view, plus a particular set of myths by which to define the nation in an exclusionary way that justifies the crushing of opposition. But this second part is Trump's problem really. As president of the whole of the USA, he stands no hope of imposing his vision of the nation on states like California or New York. So with him in power, we're likely to see chaos rather than order. A fascist state requires order.

 

[Ax^]

as with a lot of what trump represents is it what he believes who knows

will he used it as a method to gain power absolutely, fully embracing it to get a second run underway

 

[emanymton]

I increasing ask myself "does it matter?".

Does it really matter If some politician or other crosses some arbitrary line and now they are fascist, or is just the fact that the question needs to be asked enough?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

as with a lot of what trump represents is it what he believes who knows

tbh I don't think this bit matters. What he actually believes is irrelevant. What he does is what matters. Arguably the biggest threat to the world from Trump is his climate change denial and his history of totally wrecking environmental measures. This was the biggest reason why it was important for the world to get rid of Bolsonaro. And unfortunately Tump doesn't need to turn the US into a fascist state to wreak environmental destruction again. He can still do a lot of damage even if he is too weak to pull down the whole system.

 

[PTK]

I increasing ask myself "does it matter?".

Does it really matter If some politician or other crosses some arbitrary line and now they are fascist, or is just the fact that the question needs to be asked enough?

I think it does matter is a movement will come to power that will torture and kill leftists and trades unionists. Trump will not do that, though.

 

[PTK]

Yes I think there are aspects of it but not in the same way as Mussolini or Hitler. However, with checklists like this I don't think it's necessary to hit every one. For instance, Mussolini fails the religion point. Franco framed himself as an ultra-traditionalist.

For me, the key aspects of fascism are corporatism, with a vertical view of society as opposed to a horizontal class-based view, plus a particular set of myths by which to define the nation in an exclusionary way that justifies the crushing of opposition. But this second part is Trump's problem really. As president of the whole of the USA, he stands no hope of imposing his vision of the nation on states like California or New York. So with him in power, we're likely to see chaos rather than order. A fascist state requires order.

A was reading an article in The Guardian a few years ago, that said something that was reflected in a novel that I read, along the following lines.

There could be a new civil war in the USA, but the rebels would not have clearly defined aims. They would be a mixture of people with contradictory aims. It would be chaos.

 

[JimW]

Let's hope he achieves the hanging by his ankles from a gas station bit.

 

[Serge Forward]

It's very close to fascism, but it'd need to have pretentions towards some sort of corporate state to be proper full-on fascism. And unless I missed it, Trumpism doesn't have any such pretensions.

Also, I'm not convinced that capital is aligned with Trumpist ideology. Last time I looked, capitalism was still fully on board with liberal democracy. At least for now it is.

As for everything else, the difference between Trumpism and fascism is pretty much a fag paper's width. So I really won't quibble if people choose to refer to Trumpism as a variant of fascism.

 

[PR1Berske]

Trumpian thought is fascism. That branch of Christian Nationalism see only in extremes, be it extreme of the family unit, extreme of the education of children (and their "value") and so on. Even value of thoughts, deeds, words.

Watching history in real time is frustrating because we been hear the echo of history; we've seen this film before, and we'd rather be able to change the ending.

I'm very aware that the US has plenty of examples of conservatives winning against moderates. I don't know of how strong their safeguards are against the far right winning against conservatives.

 

[petee]

Also, I'm not convinced that capital is aligned with Trumpist ideology. Last time I looked, capitalism was still fully on board with liberal democracy. At least for now it is.

fresh off the presses

https://www.amazon.com/Trumps-War-Capitalism-David-Stockman/dp/1510779329

forward by none other than RFK jr!

 

[emanymton]

I think it does matter is a movement will come to power that will torture and kill leftists and trades unionists. Trump will not do that, though.

I think large numbers of his supporters would like to do that though.

 

[GroovySunday]

Trumpism is certainly fascistic. The question for me is, what sort of illustrious American past does Trumpism/Trump wish to impose on the US and likely beyond it's shores?

The 1950's? Or further back?