Immortal / long lived characters - how might they live undetected in the real world?

[killer b]

It’s going to have to interface at some point with systems in the UK that WILL give a shit.

By which I mean, they won’t believe you’re really you and will shut down your identity, leaving you with no access.

can't they just periodically steal a dead person's identity and leave everything to themselves?

 

[belboid]

Indeed, that would be a start. But you’re still going to need your own account. And to fill out tax returns for the trust that include notifying which beneficiaries received which dispersals.

The system is not designed for you to be anonymous in it. At least, not if you have money. If you have nothing, it’ll ignore the hell out of you.

They wont have lived their whole life in the twentieth century if they're immortal, you know.

 

[kabbes]

You'd have to start a new fake identity who was your child who looked just like you, and let them inherit everything.

can't they just periodically steal a dead person's identity and leave everything to themselves?

I think this would have to be the approach, but it still isn’t easy. The child thing requires paperwork — social services are going to start taking an interest in this child that doesn’t go to school etc. And your dead person identity theft — how old were they when they died? Not to mention that “know your customer” banking checks aren’t that easy to fake; how exactly are you going to evidence that you are this dead person? This stuff is only going to get harder.

They wont have lived their whole life in the twentieth century if they're immortal, you know.

Yes, they might be okay right now. Don’t fancy their chances of going undetected in 2050 though.

 

[killer b]

I think this would have to be the approach, but it still isn’t easy. The child thing requires paperwork — social services are going to start taking an interest in this child that doesn’t go to school etc. And your dead person identity theft — how old were they when they died? Not to mention that “know your customer” banking checks aren’t that easy to fake; how exactly are you going to evidence that you are this dead person? This stuff is only going to get harder.

Andrew O'Hagan wrote a great piece in the LRB about how he did this - well worth a read.

LRB · Andrew O’Hagan · The Lives of Ronald Pinn

 

[scifisam]

Of course, it also depends why you're immortal. Vampires tend to be poor (Dracula excluded), because it's hard for them to find a paying job that never requires sunlight. They could just go and work the night shift at a call centre in Scotland, I guess.

 

[belboid]

Yes, they might be okay right now. Don’t fancy their chances of going undetected in 2050 though.

Cypriot passports are still pretty easy to come by, I daresay there'll still be a few countries similarly lax for the next few years.

 

[kabbes]

Lazarus Long did it like all Heinlein heroes, by the way — living off-grid on a frontier planet with a polygamist harem. I mean, it’s *a* solution.

 

[kabbes]

Cypriot passports are still pretty easy to come by, I daresay there'll still be a few countries similarly lax for the next few years.

That’s not true. My mum just got one (two Cypriot parents) and it was a nightmare of red tape.

 

[Badgers]

That’s not true. My mum just got one (two Cypriot parents) and it was a nightmare of red tape.

If she was Russian and brought a property it would have been easier

 

[belboid]

If she was Russian and brought a property it would have been easier

quarter of a mill and you can have your own diplomatic passport! A must for any immortal.

 

[scifisam]

I think this would have to be the approach, but it still isn’t easy. The child thing requires paperwork — social services are going to start taking an interest in this child that doesn’t go to school etc.

Only if you actually have a child. Otherwise, you had a child, let it be raised by someone else (preferably in another country), then left them all your money. You mention them sometimes, and possible even go to "visit" them occasionally, but their other parent won't let them come to visit you. More difficult for a woman than a man but doable.

In Forever the lead character adopted a child during WWII (when adoptions were sometimes a bit more informal) and then died and left his money to him and, once his son was old, maqueraded as his son's son. Eventually he would have inherited from his son/Dad.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Have we mentioned Time Lords, yet? I'm sure they're well sorted for getting by over the years...

Who?

 

[8ball]

Have we mentioned Time Lords, yet? I'm sure they're well sorted for getting by over the years...

Surely you never have to make excuses for living too long if you've got a time machine.

 

[kabbes]

Only if you actually have a child. Otherwise, you had a child, let it be raised by someone else (preferably in another country), then left them all your money. You mention them sometimes, and possible even go to "visit" them occasionally, but their other parent won't let them come to visit you. More difficult for a woman than a man but doable.

In Forever the lead character adopted a child during WWII (when adoptions were sometimes a bit more informal) and then died and left his money to him and, once his son was old, maqueraded as his son's son. Eventually he would have inherited from his son/Dad.

So what country’s documentation does this fake kid have? Are you going to about to nix your own residency rights by “dying” and leaving your money? If so, where do you now have the right to stay?

 

[scifisam]

So what country’s documentation does this fake kid have? Are you going to about to nix your own residency rights by “dying” and leaving your money? If so, where do you now have the right to stay?

Yes. The kid is you. They have a birth certificate etc from that country because you registered their birth forty years ago, long enough that it's usually feasible for some records to be lost, and/or you registered them in a dodgy country that will accept such things. You are now a young person again, and the only records people really need are a birth certificate and passport. The rest can be got via your new life.

Due to the antiques you can sell from your previous lives, and your inheritance, you have money, and that can get the right to stay in an awful lot of places.

Depending on your type of immortality you might not even have to worry about staying safe when caught, because you could just kill everyone involved and stay alive. The moral repercussions of that might be high (even if you were probably dealing with bad guys) but if you had actually lived through several lifetimes and seen lots of people die, your perspective might be a bit skewed anyway.

 

[kabbes]

I think the reality of trying to do that will become increasingly difficult. Immigration policy is tight and records are now computerised. If you claim to have a child, people will want to see proof it’s yours. If you want a bank account, the bank are going to expect to know all about you. If you want to transfer money, you’re going to be subject to money laundering checks that are not a simple say-so. It’s a nice idea and it may have worked pre-21st century, but I wouldn’t want to rely on it in 30 years’ time.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

.... and their experience working as a candlemaker in 16th-century Prague or whatever probably wouldn't be easy to turn into a lucrative 21st-century career.

It would shore up their "wise old hippy" persona.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Lazarus Long did it like all Heinlein heroes, by the way — living off-grid on a frontier planet with a polygamist harem. I mean, it’s *a* solution.

Heinlein was a bit of a perve, wasn't he?

 

[scifisam]

I think the reality of trying to do that will become increasingly difficult. Immigration policy is tight and records are now computerised. If you claim to have a child, people will want to see proof it’s yours. If you want a bank account, the bank are going to expect to know all about you. If you want to transfer money, you’re going to be subject to money laundering checks that are not a simple say-so. It’s a nice idea and it may have worked pre-21st century, but I wouldn’t want to rely on it in 30 years’ time.

You should become a tax advisor to immortals trying to transfer their identities in the current world.

But in reality (heh) most immortals who are still alive now would either have got things sorted out enough that they can bribe their way out of shit, or they'll be poor enough that nobody cares enough to check.

 

[DotCommunist]

and even if they did detain you, so what. I can wait till babylon falls and the stones crumble here.

 

[SpookyFrank]

If you had an amazingly strong immune system, would it prevent you from ageing?

No. All the stuff your body needs to do to stay alive also effectively poisons it very slowly. Your DNA can only copy itself so many times without degrading. You also accumulate mutations over the course of your life, so even if nothing else gets you the probability of one cell somewhere accumulating the right set of mutations to turn into a fatal cancer of some kind approaches one. To be ageless you'd need flawlessly self-healing DNA, telomeres that could extend themselves, and some mechanism for reversing the effects of oxidative damage to your molecules.

Once all that's in place, you just need to figure out how to remain sane.

 

[krtek a houby]

Surely you never have to make excuses for living too long if you've got a time machine.

Maybe but then your face(s) not only crops up from one end of time to the other, but all over space, as well.

 

[scifisam]

Maybe but then your face(s) not only crops up from one end of time to the other, but all over space, as well.

Keanu copes OK.

 

[krtek a houby]

Keanu copes OK.

I haven't seen that episode

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Is there anywhere in the world that's lawless in the sense that there is little or no bureaucracy and you're left alone but peaceful in that you're not going to be killed?

 

[krtek a houby]

Is there anywhere in the world that's lawless in the sense that there is little or no bureaucracy and you're left alone but peaceful in that you're not going to be killed?

Didn't feel much threatened by bureaucracy or killers on the Skelligs...

 

[Yossarian]

The Catholic priesthood might have been a good option for immortals in previous generations - they believe in weird supernatural shit, they give people new names, the Vatican can issue passports, and they're experts in covering things up.

 

[Cid]

Didn't feel much threatened by bureaucracy or killers on the Skelligs...

Well you might if you actually tried to live in that particular uninhabited UNESCO world heritage site with wildlife protection policies.

 

[Cid]

The best ways are probably a bit grim/close to real life for light-hearted discussion. Not in the sense of murdering people for their identity, but because there have always been people who fall through the cracks, and that's probably a good start. Street homelessness, mental health difficulties... Or, to think of it slightly more positively, set up a shelter/rehab scheme and - once checks become more routine - find a way of slipping yourself in.

Dying might also be difficult, because you're always going to be 'a disappearance' and anyone inheriting (i.e you) will have a difficult time of it. But since you can probably maintain a dual life for a reasonable period of time, there may be ways around that.

 

[krtek a houby]

Well you might if you actually tried to live in that particular uninhabited UNESCO world heritage site with wildlife protection policies.

Of course! Was only there for a few hours. Was the perilous steps that caused the most anxiety