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Ice cap disappearing 30 years ahead of schedule

Comparing 17 August 2008 daily sea ice with 17 August 2007 shows a substantial sea ice increase over last year.

2007 broke the previous record by a long way. As you should know by now the fact that subsequent years may not exceed that spike does not mean that the trend has reversed. This article shows the long term trend as well as a comparison with the previous record, 2005.
 
Not long according to this 14 August Canadian Weather Service update showing new ice forming rapidly in the Northwest Passage.

http://awberrimilla.blogspot.com/2008/08/yesterdays-new-ice.html

Let's hope all those sailors currently attempting to navigate the NWP don't fall victim to the hype about the Arctic melting.

Comparing 17 August 2008 daily sea ice with 17 August 2007 shows a substantial sea ice increase over last year.

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=08&fd=17&fy=2007&sm=08&sd=17&sy=2008
You mean it only looks like the second or third lowest year ever on record now?
 
Let's hope all those sailors currently attempting to navigate the NWP don't fall victim to the hype about the Arctic melting.

Too late for that now. The Berrimilla, a 33-foot yacht from Australia, has just completed its journey through the Northwest Passage:

Berrimilla blog said:
The Berrimilla is the first boat to complete the NW passage in 2008, beating the Amodino by one day. (YAAA!!!) (I guess the Amodino got out of the ice OK back in Peel)

I believe the Berrimilla is the first Australian boat to complete the NW Passage! (YAAAAA!!! CHEERS! homemade Coopers in the air please!!!)

(If you like seafaring stuff in general, this blog makes for good reading.)

http://awberrimilla.blogspot.com/2008/08/pond-inlet.html
 
The register has now updated this article:
* Editor's note:

Walt Meier, research scientist at the NSIDC, has contacted us disputing the validity of Steven Goddard's methodology, and of his use of University of Illinois data to question the NSIDC's charts. We accept that these two data sets are not directly comparable, and that the University of Illinois data does not provide support for Goddard's charge that the NSIDC data is incorrect. We reproduce Walt Meier's response below. Walt Meier as provided further detail on the calculation of sea ice area and extent in the comments to this article:

The author asserts that NSIDC's estimate of a 10% increase in sea ice compared to the same time as last year is wrong. Mr. Goddard does his own analysis, based on images from the University of Illinois' Cryosphere Today web site, and comes up with a number of ~30%, three times larger than NSIDC's estimate. He appears to derive his estimate by simply counting pixels in an image. He recognizes that this results in an error due to the distortion by the map projection, but does so anyway. Such an approach is simply not valid.

The proper way to calculate a comparison of ice coverage is by actually weighting the pixels by their based on the map projection, which is exactly what NSIDC does. UI also does the same thing, in a plot right on the same page as where Mr Goddard obtained the images he uses for his own analysis:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.jpg

The absolute numbers differ between the UI and NSIDC plots because UI is calculating ice area, while NSIDC is calculating ice extent, two different but related indicators of the state of the ice cover. However, both yield a consistent change between Aug. 12, 2007 and Aug. 11, 2008 – about a 10% increase.

Besides this significant error, the rest of the article consists almost entirely of misleading, irrelevant, or erroneous information about Arctic sea ice that add nothing to the understanding of the significant long-term decline that is being observed.
 
This comment was added to the comments section of the register story.

I see that Mr. Goddard's article has gotten quite a discussion going. I've emailed The editors at The Register, but haven't heard back, and just recently Mr. Goddard directly.

Mr. Goddard's approach to counting pixels is simply not the correct approach. First, let me clarify a couple things.

1. The satellite data doesn't directly measure sea ice area or extent. It measures brightness temperature - a measure of the amount of energy emitted by the ice. This is converted to area or extent using an algorithm.

2. There are several different algorithms and they can yield different results in terms of absolute numbers. However, their trends and change from year to year show similar magnitudes. The Bremen AMSR data is from a different algorithm - hence it looks different.

3. Both UIUC and NSIDC use the same brightness temperature data.

4. Both UIUC and NSIDC use the same algorithm, but with some differences in the specifics, so the numbers aren't perfectly matched, but there is very good overall agreement and they yield the same conclusions about changes in Arctic sea ice.

5. People have talked a lot about "pixels", but one needs to understand what one is talking about. There are two types of "pixels". One is "data pixels"; this is a function of the spatial resolution of the sensor (i.e., how small of an area the sensor can resolve). For the data UIUC and NSIDC uses, the data pixels are about 25 x 25 km. The other is "image pixels", which describes the qualities of the image.

6. The data has to be gridded onto a projection, which yields a gridded resolution, which is also about 25 x 25 km, but varies depending on the type of projection and where the grid cell within the projection. The input data for both UIUC and NSIDC is on a 25 x 25 km grid. The UIUC grid that Mr. Goddard analyzes has been interpolated onto a different grid. I do not know the specifics of that grid, but such interpolation will change how the data looks when viewed.

7. The data can then be conveyed in an image. The image has an "image pixel" resolution. This is generally given in dpi or dots per inch. Higher dpi means a sharper image. However it does NOT change the fundamental resolution of the data.

8. An image is simply a way to convey data; it is not data itself. Therefor it is not proper to do analysis on the image. You need to use the data.

9. The gridded data, when analyzed, must account for the projection in terms of the area of the grid cells. You have to sum the ice, weighted by the correct area for each grid cell. NSIDC uses a polar stereographic projection with a true latitude of 70 N. Other than at 70 N there will be distortion that needs to be corrected for, as NSIDC does.

10. NSIDC freely distributes all the data, tools to work with the data, and the grid cell area files. So anyone can do their own analysis.

11. NSIDC's methods have been around for over 20 years, have been thoroughly vetted in peer-reviewed science journals, and confirmed numerous times over by independent scientists conducting the proper method.

12. Finally, Mr. Goddard need not have wasted his time doing his image pixel counting. He could've simply referred to the UIUC site, which actually counts the pixels properly and creates a timeseries plot:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.jpg

If you look at that plot, you'll that because it is area instead of extent, the raw numbers are lower. However, while it's a bit hard to make out the values real accurately, you see that this year on Aug. 11, it was ~4 million sq km, while last year on Aug. 12, it was ~3.6 million sq km (actually, since it's a one-year sliding window, Aug. 12, 2007 is no longer visible, but that's what it was on that data and the current range shows a similar difference). That's a bit more than an 11% difference. So Mr. Goddard's analysis of UIUC's data doesn't even agree with UIUC's analysis.

Hopefully Mr. Goddard will make a corrections soon.

Walt Meier

Research Scientist

National Snow and Ice Data Center

University of Colorado at Boulder

Massive 7 mile crack in far north Greenland glacier.
link

However one scientist does say this may not be as abnormal as it appears. One glacier breakup means little, but it does seem to be part of the measured trend. The cracking up of the thick ice sheets round Ellesmere Island have also gotten alot of attention this year.

Now back to the ice cap itself. Well here is a nice we link where you can comepare the ice last year with this year...
link

You can see the first 25 days worth of melting in August on this animation]
link

Where we are right now?

arcticseaicesome25_8_8.png


Pretty much at the end of the melt season in the north. There will be a growth of ice in the center now, but contintued melting round the edges so perhaps a bit of a balace. The huge additional injection of heat into the arctic ocean this year will, like last year, probibly seriously delay the rapid return of the ice. This is likely to mean that the current amount of ice will hold to be roughly the same or shrink a bit more for a while, but the anolomy from the 1979-2000 average will, like last year, shoot up. Perhaps to 3million km^2 again as the water remains open when it used to freeze. Without last years brutal winter it will perhaps mean the total extent of ice in deep winter does not reach last years levels and the melting start earlier next year. Many other factors are at play here though and this is speculation.

This is the actual arctic measures by the University of Illinios on there excellent Cryosphere site.
current25_8_8.jpg

For the long term anolomy you can look at this image. It clearly shows that the current anolomy is by far the biggest other than 2007 since accurate satalite measurements began in 79.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea.ice.anomaly.timeseries.jpg

And here is the Antartic that seems to be doing some rather odd things. Unfortunately I cannot explain the slight melt in the middle of winter.

current36525_8_8.jpg


And for the hell of it here are two other images I like.
One is a relief map of the Arctic Ocean basin.
IBCAO_betamap.jpg


The importance of the Framm Straight in mixing the Arctic and Atlantic is really obvious from this.

And here is an image of what the Antartic would look like sans ice sheet. Although it does not take into account isostatic rebound or increased sea level from a lack of an ice sheet.

AntarcticaRockSurface.jpg
 
It's not often linking to the Telegraph story but here it is.

Arctic now an 'island'
link

The historic development was revealed by satellite images taken last week showing that both the north-west and north-east passages have been opened by melting ice.

Prof Mark Serreze, a sea ice specialist at the National Snow and Ice Data Centre (NSIDC) in the US said the images suggested the Arctic may have entered a "death spiral" caused by global warming.

Shipping companies are already planning to exploit the first simultaneous opening of the routes since the beginning of the last Ice Age 125,000 years ago. The Beluga Group in Germany says it will send the first ship through the north-east passage, around Russia, next year, cutting 4,000 miles off the voyage from Germany to Japan.

Meanwhile, Stephen Harper, Canada's Prime Minister, has announced that ships entering the north-west passage should first report to his government. The routes have previously opened at different times, with the western route opening last year, and the eastern route opening in 2005.

As you can see from there there has been a very pronounced drop this week and it is approaching the 2007 record, so it looks like once again I was wrong with my last post in assuming that the melting had halted.
current1_9_8.jpg


To get a better grasp of the long term trend of this here is the long term graph

currentlongterm1_9_8.jpg


It is a great visual aid in explaining how much greater this years melt has been than any other than 2007.

This is the sea surface anolomy now.
P1AME0808PNSST000600ANOML.png

You can see clearly that the coastal regions are 4C-5C warmer than usual. This is probibly a big factor in the findings of some of the water having methane saturation levels 4000%.


There is reportedly a change in a long term ocean cycles to bring cooler waters to the nothern Atlantic, so this could slow or reverse the current trend, while the sun is starting to go into a cycle of increasing the energy it puts out.

Fig3_irradiance_s.gif


If I was to bet Id say I expect the north pole itself to have less than 40% ice coverage by 2013, Id also be willing to bet that increases in methane from melting permafrost and even some clatherates will also begin to have a measurable impact on the climate over the next 10 years.
 

This thread is also following the story. Though Id strongly quibble with the Independents "20 times more powerfull". This is a very often repeated figure but I think its wrong. In the atmosphere Methane has a half life of 7 1/2 years. Over 100 years methane has the global warming potential of about 25 times the equivelent mass of CO2, but over just 20 years this spikes to about 75 times more. This becomes very relevant when looking at short burst releases of methane.

Note that only 1.8 ppb of methane in the atmosphere has an estimated radiative forcing of 0.48 WM^2 while 379 ppm CO2 is estimated at having a radiative forcing of 1.66 WM^2 +. A significant surge in methane would also, in all likelyhood be confined to the Nothern Hemisphere as over only a decade or so it would exist in the atmosphere there is little chance for the gasses to mix across hemispheres to any significant degree.

We shall have to continue to watch this story closely.
 
mcycle.png


The Milankovitch cycle is something that has caught my attention recently. It seems that over the past thousand years or so we have had a very significant drop in the summer insolation at the 65 deg north. This suggests that there is vastly less energy midsummer to melt ice and snow, also that general Europe should have shown a very marked cooling trend over its summers.

In my mind this kind of helps explain the medeval warm period in the North and the little ice age, these are the trends we would be expecting when the insolation is falling from about 505 WM^2 down to something like 460WM^2. I think combined with global dimming the fact that the ice is retreating under these huge negative forcings is very very telling.
 
I have come across an interesting and potentialy disturbing fact. Apparently the west antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) is only 23000 years old. Normaly people assume that the ice sheet in the antarctic is about 50 million years old, and was formed when the Drake passage opened. But that is mainly the east arctic ice sheet. The giantic monster that forms the bulk of the antarctic. the WAIS is apparently much younger and only formed during the depths of the last ice age. This would suggest that it is rather unstable, given its very slim shape, it is a peninsual and that it is a grounded ice sheet not on land (it is resting on the sea bed but rising above it) it is also vaulnrable to the changes in sea temperature.

Now through into the the collapse of the Larsen A, Larsen B and now the Wilkins ice sheet.... this is a potential 5 meter sea level rise that may be waking up. I am not going to say we will live to see this, but it is not the multi millenia melt that most people give as a figure for the EAIS.

We are not just fighting global warming so we die in dry beds, we are fighting it so in 200 years there is still a Norfolk.


Edited to add this quote from Wikipedia

Large parts of the WAIS sit on a reverse-sloping bed below sea level. The reverse slope, and the low isostatic head, means that the ice sheet is theoretically unstable: a small retreat could in theory destabilize the entire WAIS leading to rapid disintegration. Current computer models do not include the physics necessary to simulate this process, and observations do not provide guidance, so predictions as to its rate of retreat remain uncertain. This has been known for decades.

In January 2006, in a UK government-commissioned report, the head of the British Antarctic Survey, Chris Rapley, warned that this huge west Antarctic ice sheet may be starting to disintegrate, an event that could raise sea levels by at least 5 metres (16 ft). Estimates by others have ranged from 6 to 15 m (20–50 ft). Rapley said a previous Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report playing down worries about the ice sheet's stability should be revised. "The last IPCC report characterized Antarctica as a slumbering giant in terms of climate change," he wrote. "I would say it is now an awakened giant. There is real concern." [4]. Note that the IPCC report did not use the words "slumbering giant".
Link
 
oh yeah, would you be so kind as to post up some links for the antarctic stuff?

or is it your own deductions?
Half of this thread has been my conjecture and guesses. But I seem to have got the wrong end of the stick with the bloke who I got the info of off. The WAIS reached its furthest exent about 25 kya. Its been retreating since then. However it was during the Eemian that the sea level was about 6 meters higher that it was hypothosed that the WAIS would have been significantly smaller, especialy the antarctic penisula. And no I dont have a link it was a conversation. I see your point though.


Antarctica.jpg
 
Half of this thread has been my conjecture and guesses.... And no I dont have a link it was a conversation.... I see your point though.
no worries, wasn't scoring points btw, just interested to have a look into what you were saying a bit further.... had it been conjecture and guesses I'm still interested as your conjectures seem to be mostly pretty spot on.

eta - I've found this to be one of the most interesting threads on here btw, and while we're at it, I've also been following that methane clatherates thread but not contributing coz I'm really in the learning zone on that one.... I'm still getting my head round there being permafrost under the ground under the water;)
 
mcycle.png


The Milankovitch cycle is something that has caught my attention recently. It seems that over the past thousand years or so we have had a very significant drop in the summer insolation at the 65 deg north. This suggests that there is vastly less energy midsummer to melt ice and snow, also that general Europe should have shown a very marked cooling trend over its summers.

In my mind this kind of helps explain the medeval warm period in the North and the little ice age, these are the trends we would be expecting when the insolation is falling from about 505 WM^2 down to something like 460WM^2. I think combined with global dimming the fact that the ice is retreating under these huge negative forcings is very very telling.

Also note that Milankovitch's theories only gained credence in the 70's when sediment studies showed agreement and forms part of the background story behind the denialist meme that 'the scientists were predicting an ice-age in the 70's'.
 
sea level has been rising at 1.8mm per year for the last 100 years. Most of norfolk is only a few feet above sea level.
 
sea level has been rising at 1.8mm per year for the last 100 years. Most of norfolk is only a few feet above sea level.

Given all the warnings, here is a slightly inconvenient truth: over the past two years, the global sea level hasn't increased. It has slightly decreased. Since 1992, satellites orbiting the planet have measured the global sea level every 10 days with an amazing degree of accuracy – 3-4mm. For two years, sea levels have declined. (All of the data are available at sealevel.colorado.edu.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/14/climatechange
 
That research comes from the university of colorado. Their webpage has the following graph:

sl_noib_global_sm.jpg


The medium-term trend is obvious (and is a a direct continuation of the long-term trend). A 2-year decline is meaningless when talking about these timescales.
 
You ain't seen nothin' yet!

There's not a lot of land based ice that's melted yet. We've been seeing the melting of the Arctic ice, and some ice shelves in Antarctica. This ice is floating on water, so does not raise the level of the water when it melts.

You can try this at home with a glass filled to the brim with a mixture of ice cubes and water. The ice may be sticking out well above the surface, and well above the rim of the brim full glass, but it will all melt down into the glass all the same. So the Arctic ice is melting, and soon will be gone. No problem.

It's what happens next that's interesting. Y'see that northern summer sun won't be reflecting off the blindingly white snow and ice, not once that's all melted. Instead, it will be absorbed into the cold dark depths of the Arctic Ocean.

A huge amount of energy each summer will be dumped into the Arctic Ocean, raising its temperature, and changing the climate in the polar regions. That's likely to accelerate the melting of the ice that is sitting on land, ice that will raise the sea levels when it melts.

Starting about now, the Northern Polar climate gets radically warmed by the warming Arctic waters, and the Greenland icecap starts melting. Sea levels will rise, and fast, when this process gets under way.

Take a look at a map of the British Isles, take a look at the contours. See how it looks with sea levels 10 feet higher. There's a hundred feet and more of water locked up in the form of land based ice. It's going to melt, unless some sensible global management is put into place.

Right now, climate change is the greatest threat to the UK. You can take the word of the UK's Chief Scientific Officer for that!
 
... over the past two years, the global sea level hasn't increased. It has slightly decreased.
Yeah, the warmer weather has meant wetter weather in the polar regions. So at the same time as the floating ice has been melting, the land based ice has been thickening slightly. This is fairly well known, I think.

Thing is, the melting of the floating ice exposes the dark seas beneath to absorb the solar energy that would otherwise be reflected back into space. That's going to change the polar climate (at both ends of the Earth, but immediately and dramatically in the North). And then the warmer polar climate will cause the land-based ice to melt, swamping large areas of Northern Europe and the British Isles.

Unless, of course, we do whatever it takes to protect our island home from the threatened rise of sea levels.
 
Yup,

you'd have to be some kind of ultra-thick, scientifically incapable, conspiraloony not to understand the facts of the matter! No doubt about that.
 
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