Hamas - influences, ideology etc

[frogwoman]

There's been lots of discussion on the nature of the Israeli state on here but less so on Hamas and I'm quite interested in understanding them tbh.

There were reports some years ago of a more pragmatic/managerial faction of the leadership that was willing to do deals with the Israelis etc on some matters. Hence the whole changing of their charter some years ago.

Obviously they are close to some other actors in the region such as Iran and Hezbollah. Has this greatly influenced their ideological makeup, and are there any elements of Shia sectarianism in their thinking, as I had never heard any reports of this. There are lots of (understandable) comparisons with IS at the moment and I was reading something that suggested that the newer / younger members may have been influenced by some of their thinking, but how much of this is just reaction in the immediate aftermath of this attack?

I know they were supported by Israel/Netanyahu for a time as a sort of islamist spoiler to Fatah in the region but I wondered how much this influenced their current thought on how Palestine should be ruled as opposed to straight forward Palestinian nationalism.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's been lots of discussion on the nature of the Israeli state on here but less so on Hamas and I'm quite interested in understanding them tbh.

There were reports some years ago of a more pragmatic/managerial faction of the leadership that was willing to do deals with the Israelis etc on some matters. Hence the whole changing of their charter some years ago.

Obviously they are close to some other actors in the region such as Iran and Hezbollah. Has this greatly influenced their ideological makeup, and are there any elements of Shia sectarianism in their thinking, as I had never heard any reports of this. There are lots of (understandable) comparisons with IS at the moment and I was reading something that suggested that the newer / younger members may have been influenced by some of their thinking, but how much of this is just reaction in the immediate aftermath of this attack?

I know they were supported by Israel/Netanyahu for a time as a sort of islamist spoiler to Fatah in the region but I wondered how much this influenced their current thought on how Palestine should be ruled as opposed to straight forward Palestinian nationalism.

For my money there was a deliberate zionist policy to sideline secular Palestinians in favour of hamas and other islamist groups

 

[frogwoman]

For my money there was a deliberate zionist policy to sideline secular Palestinians in favour of hamas and other islamist groups

Yes, in the 1980s and 90s - I am guessing things have moved on somewhat

 

[frogwoman]

Anyway more interested in learning about Hamas today and what their current ideological influences are

 

[JimW]

This seems to suggest they're suppressing the small number of converts to Shiism that international aid efforts have enabled: Is Iran behind spread of Shiism in Gaza?

 

[frogwoman]

This seems to suggest they're suppressing the small number of converts to Shiism that international aid efforts have enabled: Is Iran behind spread of Shiism in Gaza?

Interesting- why would they be doing this, is it 'just' sectarianism or an attempt to keep a distance from Iran?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Anyway more interested in learning about Hamas today and what their current ideological influences are

Out of curiosity I asked ChatGPT 3.5 your question:

Hamas, short for "Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyya" or the "Islamic Resistance Movement," is a Palestinian militant and political organization. Established in 1987 during the First Intifada (Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation), Hamas has evolved over the years and has had a significant ideological influence in the Palestinian territories, particularly in the Gaza Strip. As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, I can provide you with an overview of Hamas and its main ideological tenets. Please note that the situation may have evolved since then, so I recommend checking more recent sources for the latest developments.

Key Points about Hamas:

1. Foundation and Historical Context: Hamas was founded in 1987 as a response to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and what many Palestinians saw as the failure of existing Palestinian political movements. It emerged in the midst of the First Intifada, a Palestinian uprising, and has its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist organization with a presence in various countries.
2. Islamic Ideology: Hamas is fundamentally rooted in Islamism. Its charter, written in 1988, outlines a vision for Palestine as an Islamic state and calls for the liberation of all historic Palestine (including modern-day Israel) from Israeli control. The organization views armed resistance as a legitimate means to achieve these goals.
3. Social Services: In addition to its military and political activities, Hamas has a strong presence in providing social services, including education, healthcare, and welfare, particularly in Gaza. This has helped them gain support among the Palestinian population, as they have often filled gaps left by the Palestinian Authority (PA).
4. Armed Resistance: Hamas has been involved in numerous conflicts and attacks against Israeli targets, including suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and clashes along the Gaza-Israel border. This militant wing is known as the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. Its use of violence has led many countries, including Israel, the United States, and the European Union, to designate it as a terrorist organization.
5. Political Wing: Hamas has a political leadership structure that runs the Gaza Strip, which it has controlled since 2007 after winning elections there. It has been in conflict with the Palestinian Authority, which controls the West Bank. Efforts to reconcile these two factions and establish a unified Palestinian government have faced significant challenges.
6. Shifts in Strategy: Over the years, Hamas has shown some flexibility in its approach. While its charter calls for the establishment of an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine, its leadership has indicated a willingness to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders (i.e., the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem) as a step toward their long-term goals. However, this position has not been universally accepted within the organization.
7. International Relations: Hamas has faced isolation and sanctions from many countries, including Israel, the United States, and Egypt. However, it has received support from countries like Iran, Qatar, and Turkey. Its relationship with various regional and international actors has been complex and evolving.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

This is new and quite interesting on the relationship between Hammas and Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

Where the Palestinian Political Project Goes from Here

For decades, Hamas and Israel have maintained a violent equilibrium. How will the war change that paradigm?

www.newyorker.com

 

[Kid_Eternity]

What’s interesting is how there are factions in Hamas who are pragmatic and if they were dominant could actually lead to the beginnings of a negotiated peace settlement…

 

[frogwoman]

What’s interesting is how there are factions in Hamas who are pragmatic and if they were dominant could actually lead to the beginnings of a negotiated peace settlement…

Yes, I heard that too, but also that at points those factions have been dominant? So what has changed and why? Obviously israel's behaviour is a factor but i read somewhere that some of the newer members who grew up seeing images of Iraq in 2015 etc may have been influenced by IS's strategies.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Yes, I heard that too, but also that at points those factions have been dominant? So what has changed and why? Obviously israel's behaviour is a factor but i read somewhere that some of the newer members who grew up seeing images of Iraq in 2015 etc may have been influenced by IS's strategies.

Yeah I've read as much, we can't dismiss the possibility of outside influence over various internal figures and factions either. Who's interests does it serve to keep Hamas on a terrorist footing rather than a negotiated pragmatic footing?

 

[Knotted]

When Hamas went on a negotiating footing they got Cast Lead. When they tried to reconcile with the PA they got Protective Edge. When they tried peaceful protest in the March of Return they got gunned down. Please. Enough of this conspiracy nonsense and half baked intrigue. It's obvious why Hamas chose terror - they'd tried everything else. The young men fighting for their lives now have never known anything but the blockade and massacres, economic degradation, hopelessness and no future. 16 years of it.

 

[CNT36]

Yes, I heard that too, but also that at points those factions have been dominant? So what has changed and why? Obviously israel's behaviour is a factor but i read somewhere that some of the newer members who grew up seeing images of Iraq in 2015 etc may have been influenced by IS's strategies.

Hamas appears to have quite robust internal democracy with regular elections so it is possible for different factions to gain and lose power.

It could be that events have taken over and sidelined those groupings. Maybe their leaders have been assassinated or otherwise killed or even sidelined. There were reports that senior Hamas leadership didn't know that the attack was going to happen. Could be bullshit mind but maybe those factions are just circumvented. The internal structure of Hamas is compartmentalised into the so called wings. It is possible for the political and military wings to have quite different strategies. I'm sure I used to know more about this but it is long gone.

Evidence free speculation but it is not inconceivable that this attack itself may have been partially to do with internal power struggles or seizing rhe initiative to influence a future direction. It is not uncommon for islamist groups to use a radical action to set the agenda internally. Iirc the Taliban leadership for instance ordered the destruction of the Buddhas to push the organisation in a more radical isolationist direction severely weakening those advocating a more moderate path. They effectively shut that door.

 

[frogwoman]

Uh, what? Of course a huge part of it is to do with Israeli actions seeming to shut off any other pathway. And of course there's very understandable reasons why people might join. I'm interested in a more in depth explanation of what/why they believe and how it's run than just 'They're terrorists', though ...

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

So do the Hamas killers believe they are martyrs, destined for heaven?

 

[trabuquera]

Aiming off (if you can) for the pretty blatant anti-Hamas lens of the author here - there is some interesting detail on how its stated aims (which are available very openly to read all over the web) have 'evolved' over the years

Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology

A close read of Hamas’s founding documents clearly shows its intentions.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Knotted]

Sorry frogwoman I thought this was the other thread.

Fwiw I'm unaware of any major changes to the Hamas Leadership over the last 15-20 years or so, if there has been a shift in ideology in that period we would know about it through changes in the leadership. Ismail Haniyeh was the short lived Hamas PM in 2006 and is now head of the civilian side of the organisation again, though there were other leaders in the interim. I think the simple truth is that they always had a range of strategies. I don't think something like switching from Qatari backing to Iranian backing makes any difference to their outlook, rather they're going to switch to Iran if they are on a military footing.

I thought they were going to become coupon clippers at the top of Gaza's aid economy and get comfortable in that role, which may have allowed them down the route of worthless peace talks. But I guess the pressure from Gaza's youth and the possibility of being outflanked by eg. Palestinian Islamic Jihad kept them on the resistance path. Also I think Israel is just not interested in peace talks with Hamas.

 

[frogwoman]

Sorry frogwoman I thought this was the other thread.

Fwiw I'm unaware of any major changes to the Hamas Leadership over the last 15-20 years or so, if there has been a shift in ideology in that period we would know about it through changes in the leadership. Ismail Haniyeh was the short lived Hamas PM in 2006 and is now head of the civilian side of the organisation again, though there were other leaders in the interim. I think the simple truth is that they always had a range of strategies. I don't think something like switching from Qatari backing to Iranian backing makes any difference to their outlook, rather they're going to switch to Iran if they are on a military footing.

I thought they were going to become coupon clippers at the top of Gaza's aid economy and get comfortable in that role, which may have allowed them down the route of worthless peace talks. But I guess the pressure from Gaza's youth and the possibility of being outflanked by eg. Palestinian Islamic Jihad kept them on the resistance path. Also I think Israel is just not interested in peace talks with Hamas.

Thanks. Despite the name I always thought that 'Palestinian Islamic Jihad' were more focused on fighting Israel than global jihadism although I could be wrong there obviously.

 

[Knotted]

Thanks. Despite the name I always thought that 'Palestinian Islamic Jihad' were more focused on fighting Israel than global jihadism although I could be wrong there obviously.

I don't know much about them tbh. If they have a global jihad ideology then it's all a bit in theory.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't know much about them tbh. If they have a global jihad ideology then it's all a bit in theory.

Of course.

 

[mango5]

Thanks for this frogwoman I am also trying to make sense of the current situation and appreciate some urban discussion/info sharing.

 

[8ball]

Aiming off (if you can) for the pretty blatant anti-Hamas lens of the author here...

Must admit I was a little swayed against them when they killed all those little kids..

 

[strung out]

Take the original picture with the requisite grain of salt given that it comes from the IDF, but I thought this was an interesting and informative thread on twitter about the differences between ISIS and Hamas ideologically.

 

[mojo pixy]

Take the original picture with the requisite grain of salt given that it comes from the IDF, but I thought this was an interesting and informative thread on twitter about the differences between ISIS and Hamas ideologically.

^ that flag is upside down (they're holding it upside down, at least, maybe there's a point to that idk)

 

[CNT36]

Take the original picture with the requisite grain of salt given that it comes from the IDF, but I thought this was an interesting and informative thread on twitter about the differences between ISIS and Hamas ideologically.

Traditionally there has been a big difference between the likes of nationalist islamist groups like Hamas and the ISIS and Al Qaedas of the world. Hamas and ISIS affilates did fight one another in Gaza back when ISIS held a lot of territory. They had ideological differences as well as territorial squabbles. Whether some in Hamas have become more sympathetic or just know no better who knows.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Interesting discussion about the ideological drivers of Hamas (amongst the wider conflict and current events):

 

[hitmouse]

^ that flag is upside down (they're holding it upside down, at least, maybe there's a point to that idk)

Assuming it's being held by the IDF, that'd make sense, I think there's a thing of holding enemy flags upside-down as a sign of disrespect.

Anyway, it seems like this might be an appropriate place to ask, does anyone know what this refers to? From here: The Descent from Fantasy to Reality in the "Arab-Israeli Conflict"

In July, repression of proletarians’ mobilizations in Gaza showed Hamas cops are no less adept at using a police nightstick than Israeli cops.

The older AWW article also mentioned:

More recently, in March 2019, the Hamas-led government cracked down on peaceful demonstrations against economic hardship, arresting more than 1,000 and beating a number of participants in what amounted to an escalation in repressive tactics.

Which I think I remember, don't think I was aware of anything happening this July though.

 

[platinumsage]

Which I think I remember, don't think I was aware of anything happening this July though.

There were brief protests before Hamas cracked down on them:

Thousands of marchers in Gaza, in rare public display of discontent with Hamas

The Islamic militant group has been ruling the Gaza Strip with an iron fist since 2007, barring most demonstrations and quickly stamping out public displays of dissent.

www.lemonde.fr

 

[LDC]

There were brief protests before Hamas cracked down on them:

Thousands of marchers in Gaza, in rare public display of discontent with Hamas

The Islamic militant group has been ruling the Gaza Strip with an iron fist since 2007, barring most demonstrations and quickly stamping out public displays of dissent.

www.lemonde.fr

But... but... we are all Hamas?

 

[hitmouse]

There were brief protests before Hamas cracked down on them:

Thousands of marchers in Gaza, in rare public display of discontent with Hamas

The Islamic militant group has been ruling the Gaza Strip with an iron fist since 2007, barring most demonstrations and quickly stamping out public displays of dissent.

www.lemonde.fr

Cheers for that, had completely gone under my radar.