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Halp! Just finished binge watching Mad Men

I've already pointed out that Mad Men was about as much of a male environment. All of these female characters from The Wire are at best supporting characters and with the exception of Snoop, who was a woman basically passing as a man, I never see them getting discussed as opposed to how "cool" all the gangstas were. The women in Mad Men are at the centre of the series and as much of its narrative motor as the men and it critically deals with how they function in a male dominated environment.

I think the dismissal of Mad Men is typical Internet misogyny. It has complicated, sometimes difficult female characters who aren't male fantasy action chicks and it is among other things about style and fashion, it deals with it as a theme and subject matter. It's never style over content, it's style is always a reflection of its society and characters and it's used with great intelligence. This is always suspect to heterosexual men who don't bother to look beyond the surface, because it's something they refuse to engage with as something which can be taken seriously. And while The Wire itself deals with this with huge intellgence and subtlety, much of its fan base comes from a white, male, heterosexual veneration for gangster culture, which is considered cool. The hero worship of some of its most despicable characters on the Internet has always disturbed me. Not a fault of the series itself, but I'm talking about how it gets discussed and why Mad Men gets dismissed.

Wow. I did intend to gracefully bow out citing different tastes in TV but.. really?

You dismiss Snoop by saying she 'was a woman passing as a man'. Is this because she was not wearing a dress?

Then you go on to claim that anyone who accused madmen of being style over substance is a misogynist.. Does it help that I'm a girl? Probably not.
 
I did season one of Boardwalk Empire and while it was entertaining enough it didn't grab me. I like Buscemi as an actor, his face and delivery of lines makes me lol. But thats not enough to carry a whole show. Ended up feeling like I wanted to read a book about the history of Atlantic City rather than continue the prog
 
I've seen only a little of man men. My wife had watched two series without me and I didn't want to play catch up.

I was merely pointing out there are plenty of strong female characters in the wire. Brianna talking her son into taking the fall for the entire organisation is a stand out scene in season one. And the scene in season 3 were mc Nulty confronts her about her sons murder is incredible. Both Bedie and Rhonda are both strong female characters.

I just dislike the claim that female characters are under written in the wire.
The minor female characters in The Wire are well written, but the only real lead character, Kima, is a token character. In the end I'm talking more about why Mad Men keeps getting dismissed on the Internet and why you are not even allowed to say The Wire wasn't the greatest TV series ever without getting shouted down. I'm not disputing that The Wire was a great series, I just don't think it was the best series ever and there are others just as good. Mad Men was every bit as great, it just did something very different and it appears that what it does is less easily understood by the young, white, heterosexual males who dominate Internet discussion, so it has to be dismissed.
 
you're great when you analyse film, you're shit when you analyse other peoples motivations and construct opinions for them.
 
Mad Men was every bit as great, it just did something very different and it appears that what it does is less easily understood by the white, heterosexual males who dominate Internet discussion, so it has to be dismissed.
Yeah, cos Mad Men was really strong on non-white characters having interiority and an existence beyond being useful ways of telling us things about the white folks' struggles.
 
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I think there's many valid criticisms of the wire. It's 5th season is very disappointing. But a lack of strong female characters isn't one of them.
 
Paddy Considine is in the next series.

I like how Churchill is a complete cunt in it.
ennit, no respectful worship. Just a shame they killed the commie firebrand off in between srs one and series two. He didn't even get an onscreen death.
 
I think there's many valid criticisms of the wire. It's 5th season is very disappointing. But a lack of strong female characters isn't one of them.
i think perhaps you're understanbding the idea of "strong female characters" as being female characters who are strong personalities: confident, brave, clever... and yes, the wire has some f these.

What Reno is pointing out, is that the most complex, detailed characters, with narrative arcs playing out over multiple series, where you understand thnem not only in their "professional" life but with relation to their families etc, where you see them face down inner conflict and so on... these characters are all men.

whereas if you look at the core cast of madmen, it is almost entirely evenly weighted - yes Don is the protagonist, but Peggy, Betty and Joan are at least as developed as characters like Roger Sterling or Pete.
 
I'm going to make popcorn tonight & watch the remaining bits of season 7 all in one go.
It's just occurred to me that maybe that 2D unreal feeling I get from Mad Men & all its characters - even Peggy who was (I think) the most likeable / relatable one from the start - maybe that uninvolved feeling I got from it, the thing of never being able to forget I was watching a slick TV show, isn't a flaw but instead the whole point, like maybe the show is an exploration of the alienating / dehumanising effects of modernity, with advertising as the hub of all that.. Maybe. I'll give it another go anyway. :)
 
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