butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Not sure the german state has the moral authority to so all this mind.
German poster campaign launched to find surviving Nazis
- Thread starter weltweit
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Maybe it was in the interests of some for it not to happen? Or would that be cynical?
Oskar Schindler was a member, he actually provided the false papers and polish uniforms the Nazis dressed criminals up in and then shot to falsify the attack on the German radio station in Danzig (Gdansk) to kick start Germany's invasion of Poland and the restart of the world war that had been in truce since 1918!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The Gleiwitz incident, as it's better-known.
Manter
Lunch Mob
There is quite a lot of doubt that Odessa existed as a single global network with the aim to bring about a fourth reich; no doubt at all that thousands of Nazis were helped to escape by a series of organised networks and that there were (and still are) nazis working towards a fourth reich. The beast reawakens is interesting as it is investigative journalism, not history- historians tend to doubt the Odessa theory as it stems from Wiesenthal himself- a genius and moral man inane ways, but also something of a fantasist. Sereny for example, while she did not doubt that nazis were helped to escape by multiple networks, found no evidence for the Odessa overarching, pre planned etc conspiracy- and she spent a lot of time looking
Manter
Lunch Mob
Only in as much as they shot everyone once they had ceased to be useful
Lots of nazis were used by the soviets to support missile programmes, medical research, etc etc- what they didn't do (to their credit) is make excuses for ideological nazis- they knew they were monsters.butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It was the refs that i was talking about really, the use that someone who doubted the existence of post-war networks of various types could then follow. I wasn't thinking of Odessa as anything but an escape and short term consolidation plan that other networks could use or filer into. That undoubtedly happened The above is is why plan should not be used to describe this.
Somewhere I have copies of minutes of an alleged meeting that took place in Germany in 1943, at the meeting it was discussed that should Germany lose the war there should be a plan B to ensure the thousand years Reich.
It was mooted that Germany should attempt to unify with France, Italy and Spain to create a union of markets with a single currency to wage an economic war against the then British Empire, the USA and the Soviet Union.
They did not foresee the division of Europe and the start of the cold war.
I got this from some Israeli news provider some years ago, but I always thought it was mud slinging.
A Federal State of Europe. That could never happen!
It was mooted that Germany should attempt to unify with France, Italy and Spain to create a union of markets with a single currency to wage an economic war against the then British Empire, the USA and the Soviet Union.
They did not foresee the division of Europe and the start of the cold war.
I got this from some Israeli news provider some years ago, but I always thought it was mud slinging.
A Federal State of Europe. That could never happen!
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
my loondar is blipping...
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Only in as much as they shot everyone once they had ceased to be useful
The use/retention of scientists was pretty much a given, but the Soviets were far more thorough in "de-Nazifying" the civil structures and police in what became East Germany than the western powers bothered to be. Probably a beneficial side-effect of having a large bureaucracy from which they could (and did) "attach" tens of thousands of Soviet civil servants until enough properly-indoctrinated "locals" had come up through the system.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
It's almost like someone's let the Tories run Germany for a day.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They're probably not, and I strongly suspect this is window-dressing of the sort that will publicly-demonstarte "there are no more Hitler Nazis here", and that'll mean that Germany can "move on" away from under the shadow of Nazism (if the French and the British let them).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This isn't a state run thing btw
You got it mate, one thing you find being politically active is the amount of dross and misinformation you get sent over the years.
It's like working for GCHQ!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, the idea was predicated on there continuing to be fascist or pro-fascist governments in those countries (the list of which also included Portugal).
As for not foreseeing the division of Europe, the Nazi heirarchy were well aware that a Soviet advance would mean the absorption of many eastern and central European states from as early as '41 - why? Because they knew that the Soviets, even if they were loathe to expand their own empire, wouldn't take the risk, if/when they pushed westward, of leaving those states they drove through ideologically-independent. Why leave a knife at your back?
Manter
Lunch Mob
Lots of reasons- cost, desire to move on after WW2, ideological concerns/ debates about collective guilt, ex nazis being everywhere throughout the infrastructure.... Remember post WW2 Europe was a mess, millions of refugees trailing this way and that, ruined cities, damaged infrastructure, traumatised camp survivors, epidemics- and a developing stand off between the west and the east. A cool, calm, collection of names and evidence was impossible at the time- under resourced teams of investigators were making decisions on the fly- and the decision made were not always good ones. As things started to settle down, you faced a new problem- the west had decided communism was the 'real' enemy so there was little appetite to go nazi hunting- and if they did they knew it'd involve stripping out quite a lot of people in key positions in government and industry. Could the infrastructure survive that? Really nasty example of realpolitik in action
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Nazi War Criminals, please hand yourselves in to the local authorities. Or zer vill be big troubles!!!
Stalin had insisted they required a buffer zone at the talks in Yalta and Tehran I seem to recall. The Nazi's though brutal had some incredibly intelligent people at it's heart and I can see the logical and strategic thinking behind your reply.
Of course Vichy France were pro fascist, we seem to paper over that fact these days.
Manter
Lunch Mob
this is a Weisenthal foundation campaign- not state run/backed.
youngian
Well-Known Member
This is terrible. Lets return to state nationalist rivalry throughout Europe. That always worked out well in checking rival ultra-right nationalist hegemonies.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I know. It says so in the OP.
That doesn't mean it can't or won't fulfill that function (which would also allow the Weisenthal Center to move cleanly away from "Nazi-hunting" of the type the man himself was obsessed with once and for all, and concentrate more on modern-day threats without appearing direspectful to the memory of the founder).
Manter
Lunch Mob
some of the archives in Moscow are suggesting there was much less denazification than previously thought (and lots of archives are still under lock and key)- we know lots of nazi interrogators, torturers etc were used by the Stasi and KGB, but it looks like it may have been more widespread than that. We may find out post Putin, but Putin is shutting down access to lots of this stuff again
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
of course the surviving ones should be hunted down. wherever they are and whoever they are. they should never feel that they are safe. and somebody who kills 200 people and throws their bodies in a pit or takes part in illegal experiments on humans, shoots kids and women, without flinching, you think they all just went and led quiet surbuban lives after the war and should be left in peace because they're old. you think that none of them went onto kill after the war, went onto rape after the war, that none of them were involved in activities of illegal nazi groups?
should they fuck. they should never relax. they should always have to look over their shoulder until the end of their worthless lives, they should always be scared that somebody is going to remember them. that somebody knows who they are and is going to find them. they should always go to bed wondering whether today was going to be the day. they should never have peace as long as they live. you don't get a free pass on that shit because you reach your 70th birthday.
imo
should they fuck. they should never relax. they should always have to look over their shoulder until the end of their worthless lives, they should always be scared that somebody is going to remember them. that somebody knows who they are and is going to find them. they should always go to bed wondering whether today was going to be the day. they should never have peace as long as they live. you don't get a free pass on that shit because you reach your 70th birthday.
imo
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sorry, but your claims about the German left "in-fighting over minutiae" is Trot-flavoured bollocks.
The KPD could never have worked with the SPD in the much-touted "united front", because the KPD were well-aware that a significant minority of the SPD heirarchy were comprised of people who'd sold the German revolution down the river after WW1, whose organisation was constructed to minimise the power that the membership could exercise over the executive, that was still as full of functionaries, bureaucrats and "party men" in the late '20s and early '30s as it was when it betrayed the revolution.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Realpolitik.
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