Future of S4C

[Brockway]

Who the fuck mentioned OAPs? It's the old-guard, the rich folk, the monied peeps who earned their cash through the media and other fields, not pensioners. Note the '...' that I used.

And dude, i grew up on two council estates, Ely and Pentrebane. That's one in the eye for your assumptions (whatever the fuck point you were trying to make in the first place).

Aye.

And these language Nazis that you mentioned are? Can you name them? Give me ten names.

Oh, and congratulations on coming from a council estate. That's you, me, and half of Cardiff. You will be aware, then, that there is as much racism in Ely as there is in Pontcanna. Possibly more, it being a larger area. That's the point I was trying to make, if it helps.

 

[Karac]

Hmmm-i think flagwaver and silurian are the same multiposting BNP/UKIP moron who infests the ICWALES messageboard/Betsans blog ad nauseam.
An extremely sad character with a lot of time on his hands and an unbalanced hatred of the Welsh language.

 

[Gavin Bl]

Saying that you had one programme turned down because it involved non-white welsh speakers, doesn't prove any wider cultural dread of non-white welsh speakers (even assuming that was the reason the show was turned down)

You could just as easily argue the complete opposite and say, look at people like Nigel Walker, Roz Richards or Colin Charvis as welsh speakers, or learners - often in quite high profile campaigns. Or you could ask yourself why did S4C cover the Mela down in the bay? If its so full of people who want to keep ethnic minorities away from the language, why would that happen.

 

[badlands]

Saying that you had one programme turned down because it involved non-white welsh speakers, doesn't prove any wider cultural dread of non-white welsh speakers (even assuming that was the reason the show was turned down)

You could just as easily argue the complete opposite and say, look at people like Nigel Walker, Roz Richards or Colin Charvis as welsh speakers, or learners - often in quite high profile campaigns. Or you could ask yourself why did S4C cover the Mela down in the bay? If its so full of people who want to keep ethnic minorities away from the language, why would that happen.

I was talking about the drama department a few years a go.

The programme we worked on broke the ground for the 'foster parent drama' that came after (which I've never seen)

All I'm saying is that they wanted a 'type' of drama. They wanted a multi-cultural drama. One set in Cardiff. But in the end it was their idea of Cardiff they wanted to portray.

Not ours.

 

[1927]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh. Are you the hardest man in Penarth?

QED.

Whats Penarth got to do with anything anyway?

 

[Brockway]

Hi 1927. Everything OK? Smashing.

If I were to draw up a Cardiff and its environs league table of snootiness I would put Penarth, Cowbridge, Rhiwbina, Lakeside, Lisvane, Radyr, Llandaff and Cyncoed above Pontcanna. Some people on this thread just really hate Welsh-speakers, which I find a bit disturbing.

 

[Infidel Castro]

And these language Nazis that you mentioned are? Can you name them? Give me ten names.

Oh, and congratulations on coming from a council estate. That's you, me, and half of Cardiff. You will be aware, then, that there is as much racism in Ely as there is in Pontcanna. Possibly more, it being a larger area. That's the point I was trying to make, if it helps.

My ex-missus was a language nazi. If someone spoke inferior Welsh she'd look on them as subhuman. If she was then say with 9 of her mates and someone else spoke 'poor' Cymraeg, those 10 folk (see where I'm going with this?) would rip them to pieces behind their backs. Snobbery exists in the Welsh language from east to west (of course, it's well known the west speaks far superior Welsh...appararently) and then there's the north/south divide. Then you get those who live in mid-Wales who speak it even better (according to them). I can furnish you with ten names if you want them, but I might as well make them up for the use it'll be to you.

And why act so patronising about me living on council estates? You said I'd probably never never lived on one, yet I gave you two I lived on (where my family still are for that matter) and then you turn it round on me. Dude, you're like a woman with a vendetta. I answered you and the only response you could throw up was a patronising one to mask the fact I met your point with a big WIN.

Furthermore, what racism per se has to do with what we're talking about, i have no idea. You seem to have made up a side-subject and thrown it into the mix.

I want to speak Welsh, wish I had the TIME to learn it, and also have a deep interest in it full stop. I just don't like the clique that has formed, an elite if you will, within the language due to the media and led by S4C. I'm glad the Beeb is getting hold of it and hopefully there'll be a cull there, getting rid of the dross.

I'm still puzzling over your racism bit, but it's clear you're a wind-up merchant rather than a poster with a point.

 

[Brockway]

So you can’t actually name any language Nazis. That anecdotal, ahem, ‘evidence’ btw is laughable. Piss poor, in fact.

Your notion that Welsh-speakers are elitist snobs is just ridiculous. They are no more elitist than folk from anywhere else. As for your inference that people who are from “inner-city Cardiff” are somehow less prone to snobbery or racism is daft. That’s a patronising, dewy-eyed, romanticised view of people who live in urban areas. I live on a council estate and know that it is bollox.

Um, you introduced race into this debate not me you silly sausage. Here’s you doing precisely that: “But then I'm not a language-nazi with anti-Cardiff sentiments. I suppose that for the usual white-centric 'old Welsh' folk, the idea that there might be a ground-swell of support for Cymraeg in inner-city Cardiff must be scary as fuck.”

Hope that’s plain enough for you.

 

[Silurian]

Hmmm-i think flagwaver and silurian are the same multiposting BNP/UKIP moron who infests the ICWALES messageboard/Betsans blog ad nauseam.
An extremely sad character with a lot of time on his hands and an unbalanced hatred of the Welsh language.

'An extremely sad character with a lot of time on his hands'? how ironic of you to say that.

Had to think back then to some deluded prat earlier this years, labouring on and on at me with the exact same nonsensical disconnect. Vague recollections of having to help you out led me to look back through my posts, and I found you: 5th of June this year on the 'Anti-Nazi Rally' thread (post #108) and coming up with the exact same deluded dross.

Who knows, perhaps some day your archenemy from ICWales and 'Betsans blog' (whatever that is) may well pursue you here to U75; but for now please enjoy this appalled facepalm...

Sorry, fella.

 

[Infidel Castro]

So you can’t actually name any language Nazis. That anecdotal, ahem, ‘evidence’ btw is laughable. Piss poor, in fact.

Your notion that Welsh-speakers are elitist snobs is just ridiculous. They are no more elitist than folk from anywhere else. As for your inference that people who are from “inner-city Cardiff” are somehow less prone to snobbery or racism is daft. That’s a patronising, dewy-eyed, romanticised view of people who live in urban areas. I live on a council estate and know that it is bollox.

Um, you introduced race into this debate not me you silly sausage. Here’s you doing precisely that: “But then I'm not a language-nazi with anti-Cardiff sentiments. I suppose that for the usual white-centric 'old Welsh' folk, the idea that there might be a ground-swell of support for Cymraeg in inner-city Cardiff must be scary as fuck.”

Hope that’s plain enough for you.

Language-nazi hardly constitutes racist. It's a tongue-in-cheek expression. Like rules-nazis or parking-nazis. It's a way of highlighting an overbearing attitude towards something.

I have never once said that people from inner-city areas are racist, not racist, less racist or anything compared to anyone else. Read the post again.

White-centric 'old Welsh' is just a way of explaining that most Welsh-speakers are white. When Aled Brew speaks Welsh on S4C, it makes people pay attention. I saw a programme Welsh TV last year (or possibly in the last few years - my memory is poor) about a black woman in rural Wales who spoke Welsh and the locals were scared as fuck. Really opened their eyes. So I have at least some basis for calling the Welsh language white-centric.

And I told you I can indeed name ten folk, but the point remains that you wouldn't know them so the exercise would be pretty much pissing in the wind.

You must have magic eyes...

 

[badlands]

cracking spat,

Infidel, I think we should invite everyone somewhere for an open debate.

I suggest The Neville as a venue,

over a Pimms.

 

[Brockway]

Language-nazi hardly constitutes racist. It's a tongue-in-cheek expression. Like rules-nazis or parking-nazis. It's a way of highlighting an overbearing attitude towards something.

I have never once said that people from inner-city areas are racist, not racist, less racist or anything compared to anyone else. Read the post again.

White-centric 'old Welsh' is just a way of explaining that most Welsh-speakers are white. When Aled Brew speaks Welsh on S4C, it makes people pay attention. I saw a programme Welsh TV last year (or possibly in the last few years - my memory is poor) about a black woman in rural Wales who spoke Welsh and the locals were scared as fuck. Really opened their eyes. So I have at least some basis for calling the Welsh language white-centric.

And I told you I can indeed name ten folk, but the point remains that you wouldn't know them so the exercise would be pretty much pissing in the wind.

You must have magic eyes...

... Yes, they are nice. Thanks for asking.

You're wriggling like a wriggly thing there. If you wanted to say that Welsh-speakers are overbearing you could have just typed the word: overbearing. Instead you chose the word, Nazi, with all of its horrific connotations of fascism and racism. You then immediately followed it up by banging on about them being white, presumably to reinforce the point. Can't believe that you're still denying that you (not me) introduced the subject of race into this debate when it's there for all to see. And your above justification only confirms it.

I'm not sure what your inference is, in saying that most people who speak Welsh are white. Most people who speak English in England are white. Most people who speak Finnish in Finland are white. The Welsh-language is available to everybody, whatever their ethnicity. It's up to folk, black or white, whether they want to continue studying it in school or not. Or are you suggesting that there is a sinister plot to stop black people from learning Welsh in our schools?

So, come on then Infidel - name and shame these evil Welsh-language Nazis. Not those fantasy girls that you made up - what about those "old" gits that you initially mentioned, who are they then? Have they got two Christian names with ap in the middle? I bet they go to Eisteddfodau, don't they? Do they live in posh houses in Pontcanna or just inside your head?

 

[1927]

Hi 1927. Everything OK? Smashing.

If I were to draw up a Cardiff and its environs league table of snootiness I would put Penarth, Cowbridge, Rhiwbina, Lakeside, Lisvane, Radyr, Llandaff and Cyncoed above Pontcanna. Some people on this thread just really hate Welsh-speakers, which I find a bit disturbing.

And? I'm not from any of those places! And if you are a prime example its hardly surprising that folk hate welsh speakers.

 

[Brockway]

Hi 1927. How's things? Good.

Sorry if I've confused you with some other fella on here who is from Penarth. It's a shame that you hate me but, hey, I'll try and get over it. And I'm not a Welsh-speaker. All the best.

 

[teqniq]

I suggest The Neville as a venue,

over a Pimms.

Lol

 

[Karac]

'An extremely sad character with a lot of time on his hands'? how ironic of you to say that.

Had to think back then to some deluded prat earlier this years, labouring on and on at me with the exact same nonsensical disconnect. Vague recollections of having to help you out led me to look back through my posts, and I found you: 5th of June this year on the 'Anti-Nazi Rally' thread (post #108) and coming up with the exact same deluded dross.

Who knows, perhaps some day your archenemy from ICWales and 'Betsans blog' (whatever that is) may well pursue you here to U75; but for now please enjoy this appalled facepalm...

Sorry, fella.

Your the same troll UKIP/BNP or English Democrats who knows

 

[Silurian]

Your the same troll UKIP/BNP or English Democrats who knows

I hope you're senile, but either way I cannot help you. *shrug*

 

[la ressistance]

i slagged off the welsh language on here before and got called a racist. is it possible to be racist to speakers? i dunno. roll bloody eyes.

 

[Silurian]

i slagged off the welsh language on here before and got called a racist. is it possible to be racist to speakers? i dunno. roll bloody eyes.

Interesting indeed.

But I got labelled racist for criticising S4C as being too confined to a narrow social and cultural base, and for not spreading its reach to cater for the Welsh majority.

I'd be interested to hear why you were 'slagging off' the Welsh language. Too many consonants? or did you mean the Welsh Language Industry and its touch-sensitive defenders? If the latter, then you're on good ground.

As is highly visible whenever this topic is raised, people tend to congregate around two unfortunate and opposing camps. My own tendency, as a monoglot English-speaker, is to diagnose problems in the way Welsh speaking Wales views itself and impacts upon the Welsh majority. And from the other side, as seen in this thread, those seeking to defend Welsh speaking Wales and its institutions are apt to see racist conspiracies and British nationalist smear-tactics, wherever someone dares to question the status quo.

Some of the petty bickering in this thread alone would be a delight to anyone from the British authorities looking-on, and wanting to instill some old-fashioned Divide & Conquer. Which is what I suspect we are really dealing with here, since the difference which exist amongst those within or without the Welsh language are inflated disproportionately, and never to the benefit of Welsh people.

Its sad that many Welsh-speakers seek to follow RS Thomas' ethos in seeing 'true Welsh identity' as residing purely within the language, since 'One has to draw the line somewhere'. Considering the tiny population of Wales as a whole, attemps to sustain a sense of nationhood would be difficult enough already, without shrinking things back to a tiny rump of cornered communities in Y Fro Cymraeg and the better-off Cardiff suburbs. Plus the version of Welshness and the rather narrow backfooted attitudes rooted in such rural Welsh communities only sell Wales short - something written all over S4C's attitude and ouput, sadly.

We need to find a means to get beyond the phoney divide that has been cultivated by London, and helped no end by the upholders of professional Welshness. S4C could well be the means to achieve a huge chunk of that, not least by expanding its output and constituency to encompass the Welsh majority for the very first time. As for funding that, we need to get some fresh thinking on such matters.

How about a subscription service, or perhaps large parts of the work involved in making S4C work could be given over to volunteer contributors. I am sure there is a vast reservoir of un-tapped talent in Wales, especially amongst all those former Media Studies students working in mundane jobs. Maybe they could all do their bit for the national channel as a kind of un-official National Service?

 

[ernestolynch]

Gymraeg, Y Fro Gymraeg.

 

[la ressistance]

I'd be interested to hear why you were 'slagging off' the Welsh language.

because it sounds horrible.

 

[Infidel Castro]

... Yes, they are nice. Thanks for asking.

You're wriggling like a wriggly thing there. If you wanted to say that Welsh-speakers are overbearing you could have just typed the word: overbearing. Instead you chose the word, Nazi, with all of its horrific connotations of fascism and racism. You then immediately followed it up by banging on about them being white, presumably to reinforce the point. Can't believe that you're still denying that you (not me) introduced the subject of race into this debate when it's there for all to see. And your above justification only confirms it.

I'm not sure what your inference is, in saying that most people who speak Welsh are white. Most people who speak English in England are white. Most people who speak Finnish in Finland are white. The Welsh-language is available to everybody, whatever their ethnicity. It's up to folk, black or white, whether they want to continue studying it in school or not. Or are you suggesting that there is a sinister plot to stop black people from learning Welsh in our schools?

So, come on then Infidel - name and shame these evil Welsh-language Nazis. Not those fantasy girls that you made up - what about those "old" gits that you initially mentioned, who are they then? Have they got two Christian names with ap in the middle? I bet they go to Eisteddfodau, don't they? Do they live in posh houses in Pontcanna or just inside your head?

You know what? I'm going to stop here. My mam told me never to mess with trolls. I'll end on a couple of small points though:

The Welsh and English languages cannot be compared in the way you have in your post (one is a fringe language, the other the predominant language of business of most of the globe).

You write lots of words but choose to ignore in other's posts subtleties in language, idioms and other references. You do this wilfully, judging by your attempts to 'trap' me. That makes you a troll, of course.

I don't need to tell you any names of folk that I know as - once again - it's a futile exercise as you won't know them. If you want some names though (and just to keep in the spirit of your evasive and purposeful play-dumb tack), here are a few: Lewis Brewis, Hugh Pugh, Evan Bevan, Nerys, Cerys, Carys, Larynx, Spatula, Lleucu and Rhisiart. That'll do. You've got your names.





Some smiley faces there for you mate, just to add an element of mystique to my post (because it REALLY works for you).

Ta-ra fer now mate. Reply if you want, but there will be no follow up from me. I've probably gone outside of my mother's advice by even engaging this time, but I'm sure she'll understand this once. As long as I don't do it again she'll let me off. She's good like that see.

 

[Infidel Castro]

cracking spat,

Infidel, I think we should invite everyone somewhere for an open debate.

I suggest The Neville as a venue,

over a Pimms.

I get the feeling that Brockers ain't the sort to do real-life situations mate!

But a pint down the local before Christmas would certainly do the trick. For sure. We can stand around then spitting feathers at the Welsh-influenced decor .

 

[Brockway]

You do this wilfully, judging by your attempts to 'trap' me.

Do you suffer from paranoia? Somewhere else you mentioned a "vendetta". Honestly, just because someone happens to disagree with you on some issue on an internet messageboard doesn't make them a troll. Don't take it so seriously.

Cheers

Brockers

 

[davesgcr]

£105M per annum subsidy ? (how much per genuine viewer)

The language , thank God , is safe now - but is this VFM ? Plan , do , moniter , review .....

(PS I come from a very Welsh speaking area of West Wales ,and I dont think "shak - S4C" really hit it off with my very "Local" community .

 

[William of Walworth]

Having it folded into the BBC would probably do more to safeguard it than expecting C4 - a commercial organisation - to keep funding it.

From my limited knowledge, this seems at least a half way reasonable point in terms of sheer realism about finances?

I'd be interested to see responses to that point specifically from lewislewis and others mind.

I know this exchange was ages ago but I'd be really interested to see some response from S4C-knowledgeable types to that one, because it did seem to make some sort of pragmatic sense in financial terms at least?

 

[lewislewis]

£105M per annum subsidy ? (how much per genuine viewer)

The language , thank God , is safe now - but is this VFM ? Plan , do , moniter , review .....

(PS I come from a very Welsh speaking area of West Wales ,and I dont think "shak - S4C" really hit it off with my very "Local" community .

I wouldn't use the word 'subsidy', it's more of an investment of state money that mostly gets distributed to independent production companies and creative enterprises. It is a public service broadcaster as well.

With that said, there clearly need to be changes at S4C.