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Force feeding hunger strikers at Guantanamo

I am not surprised that prisoners who are being held at Guantanamo indefinitely have decided to go on hunger strike. They don't exactly have many options.

America could try them, or release them, but they seem to have some kind of policy paralysis about the whole issue.

As to force feeding the prisoners, it certainly looks unpleasant.
 
Have to say that he's a bit of a wuss. I've had 8 insertions of a NG tube in the last two years. They did put put me in a sweat and were deeply unpleasant but I like to think I handled it a lot more stoically than poor old Mr Def there.
 
Have to say that he's a bit of a wuss. I've had 8 insertions of a NG tube in the last two years. They did put put me in a sweat and were deeply unpleasant but I like to think I handled it a lot more stoically than poor old Mr Def there.
Were you on hunger strike and refusing food, so thereby having the tube forced into you against your will whilst physically restained? And you had 8 in 2 years, that's once every 3 months, by average. The hunger strikers will be having it forced into them daily. While he may appear to you to be a wuss, I think his distress, even if amped for the film, more than adequately shows what those who undergo this type of procedure on a daily basis must go through :(
 
Mos def did a service. It's gone viral on you tube & publicized the brutal method of feeding. There has to be a more humane way to do it.
 
Mos def did a service. It's gone viral on you tube & publicized the brutal method of feeding. There has to be a more humane way to do it.
or we could just let people exercise their right to protest in the way they see fit. I don't agree with any method of force feeding someone who doesn't want it (and that includes those that are terminal, as was the case with my nan).
 
or we could just let people exercise their right to protest in the way they see fit. I don't agree with any method of force feeding someone who doesn't want it (and that includes those that are terminal, as was the case with my nan).
Well, that's a unique way of looking at it. But they'd die. As you say, it's a protest......they don't want to die & I'd guess they expected some kind of efforts to keep them alive. They could do IV feeding.
 
Well, that's a unique way of looking at it. But they'd die. As you say, it's a protest......they don't want to die & I'd guess they expected some kind of efforts to keep them alive. They could do IV feeding.

They'd still have to hold them down - to stick a needle in. If you're on a hunger strike, one way or another, they'll be forcing something into you.
 
during the 1970s British authorities adopted the tactic of force feeding Irish prisoners on Hungerstrike in British jails . The effects were so horrific they ended up abandoning the tactic . One prisoner, Michael Gaughan from Mayo, died during it . Dolores Price , who later married the actor Stephen Rea, suffered mental scarring she never recovered from and died earlier this year . Her sister Marion Prices health also remains in a terrible state many years on .

This piece gives an indocation of what it involves for the victims

Within days, the prison authorities began force-feeding Dolores and Marion Price, Hugh Feeney and Gerry Kelly. They were brutally force-fed for 206 days. On 31 March 1974, Frank Stagg, Paul Holmes, Hugh Feeney and Michael Gaughan joined the strike. Twenty-three days into his strike, Michael was force-fed for the first time. The method of force-feeding hadn’t changed from the days when Thomas Ashe died due to the brutality of it in 1917. The brutality of the force-feeding and resisting the doctors and the warders took its toll on the hunger-strikers. It left them battered and bruised, drained physically and mentally. The physiological torture of this barbaric assault on a person also had an effect as one of the hunger-strikers recounted to a relative at the time: “The mental agony of waiting to be force-fed is getting to the stage where it now outweighs the physical discomfort of having to go through with it.”
During his hunger-strike Michael was force-fed 17 times, the last time on the evening of June 2. (click photo to view)
The physical toll on the hunger-strikers is borne out by Gaughan’s brother John’s statement of his condition when he last saw him. His throat had been badly cut by force feeding and his teeth loosened. His eyes were sunken, his cheeks hollow and his mouth was gaping open. He weighed about six stone.
Visitors to the hunger strikers were only allowed to see them through a glass screen, supervised by prison warders. In what must have been a very emotional visit Gaughan’s mother Delia saw him alive for the last time through this screen three days before his death.
On 3 June 1974, the prison authorities announced that Michael Gaughan had died. They later explained that he died from pneumonia, a result of the force-feeding tube having pierced his lung and food lodging in his lung. He was 24-years-old.
The manner of his death caused controversy in medical circles and the method of force-feeding was later abandoned by the British state.


so dont be in any doubt those Guantanamo prisoners are being tortured quite horrifically .
 
Well, that's a unique way of looking at it. But they'd die. As you say, it's a protest......they don't want to die & I'd guess they expected some kind of efforts to keep them alive. They could do IV feeding.

Why is it unique? They are protesting and using their lives as a tool of protest. I am sure that they fully expect to die for their beliefs. Self sacrifice for one's beliefs is not something new and has been used many many times where there is no other channel for protest. Our bodies and our lives should, imho, be under self determination and that's what makes this type of protest so special and poignant. I wish it were not needed but unfortunatly sometimes only the ultimate sacrifice achieves the ultimate goal.
 
They'd still have to hold them down - to stick a needle in. If you're on a hunger strike, one way or another, they'll be forcing something into you.
... and thereby denying the protester their protest. I wonder if TomUS would agree to protesters having their placards forceably removed, because denying someone the right to protest works at every level.
 
Well, that's a unique way of looking at it. But they'd die. As you say, it's a protest......they don't want to die & I'd guess they expected some kind of efforts to keep them alive. They could do IV feeding.


That's not really not possible with a non compliant patient. You need to put a line into the veins in your neck as the stuff used is too thick to go via the ones in your arms. And the patient needs to be monitored closely and infection is a high risk. Trying that on someone who does not want it done you would easily end up with a dead patient/prisoner.
 
In a way it is surprising that America is force feeding the detainees at Guantanamo.

They don't want to give them a fair trial in the USA because they don't want to reveal their spying methods, they don't want to give them a military trial for those and other reasons, they don't want to release them because they would be releasing committed, more than ever, enemies of America. So they are in limbo, they have no idea what to do with these people.

Surely if they were to die through a hunger strike it could mean fewer of them to deal with.
Merciless though that might seem.
 
In a way it is surprising that America is force feeding the detainees at Guantanamo.

They don't want to give them a fair trial in the USA because they don't want to reveal their spying methods, they don't want to give them a military trial for those and other reasons, they don't want to release them because they would be releasing committed, more than ever, enemies of America. So they are in limbo, they have no idea what to do with these people.

Surely if they were to die through a hunger strike it could mean fewer of them to deal with.
Merciless though that might seem.
They don't want them to become martyrs either though, that is most likely why they force feed them. Plus it is a demoralising and demeaning process which, though I am sure it is allowed under the geneva convention, really is tantamount to torture (see Casually Red's post above)
 
They don't want them to become martyrs either though, that is most likely why they force feed them. Plus it is a demoralising and demeaning process which, though I am sure it is allowed under the geneva convention, really is tantamount to torture (see Casually Red's post above)


As illegal combatants( the us made up term) their not covered by the Geneva convention which covers POWs and has pretty strict guidelines who and who isn't a POW. Though it is above my pay grade as what to do with people who are not POWs.
And I think the US had even less an idea of what to do with them then and even less now.
 
In a way it is surprising that America is force feeding the detainees at Guantanamo.

They don't want to give them a fair trial in the USA because they don't want to reveal their spying methods, they don't want to give them a military trial for those and other reasons, they don't want to release them because they would be releasing committed, more than ever, enemies of America. So they are in limbo, they have no idea what to do with these people.

Surely if they were to die through a hunger strike it could mean fewer of them to deal with.
Merciless though that might seem.

they cant give many of them a trial as theres little or no evidence of an offence being committed by many of them , unlawful combatant is basically someone who was fighting as an insurgent against foreign invaders. Which isnt actually a criminal offence as such. And many of them have been held there long after their release dates .
And any reading of history should tell you dead hungerstrikers usually means more fighters, not less .

Its also worth noting that this type of indeterminate arbitrary detention with no word of any release date is in itself a form of psychological torture . Add to that the horrors of force feeding and what you basically have there is a torture camp, even without the enhanced interrogation techniques, beatings and sexual assaults . Its also clear there arent any doctors carrying this force feeding out, its would make them little Mengeles, so theyve left it to orderlies and the like . Too disgusting for proper medics who rightly view it as a form of torture .
 
Why is it unique? They are protesting and using their lives as a tool of protest. I am sure that they fully expect to die for their beliefs. Self sacrifice for one's beliefs is not something new and has been used many many times where there is no other channel for protest. Our bodies and our lives should, imho, be under self determination and that's what makes this type of protest so special and poignant. I wish it were not needed but unfortunatly sometimes only the ultimate sacrifice achieves the ultimate goal.

I think its important to differentiate here that this protest isnt actually about their political or religious beliefs . This is solely about their human rights, which have been and are being gravely violated over a very long period of time with no end to it in sight.
 
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That is a bollox comparison. She is not restrained, in a comfortable medical setting and has the tube inseted by a caring professionals with a drink to help her swallow. Mos def had little or no lube that I can see, was restrained AND shackled and had the tube forced up his snout by two burly 'medics' in a hostile setting. The second girl has most likely had plenty of training and experience to carry out the procedure upon herself. Again, she is in a comfortable environment and is not shackled and restrained.

But I guess we all see what we want to see, innit :(
 
That is a bollox comparison. She is not restrained, in a comfortable medical setting and has the tube inseted by a caring professionals with a drink to help her swallow. Mos def had little or no lube that I can see, was restrained AND shackled and had the tube forced up his snout by two burly 'medics' in a hostile setting. The second girl has most likely had plenty of training and experience to carry out the procedure upon herself. Again, she is in a comfortable environment and is not shackled and restrained.

But I guess we all see what we want to see, innit :(

He had the normal amount of lube that you get get during the insertion of an NG tube. His tube looked like a paediatric one as well. Usually for adults it is three times as thick and can be kept in weeks at a time, as I can attest.

I abhor what is carried out ay gitmo, and this exercise has its points in getting across the abuses carried out there.

All the same, I feel that Mos Defs acting sensibilities came to the fore a bit there. Yes he was resisting, most people do a bit when the NG tube is inserted. Also you get some good doctors who walk you gently through it and some who are absolute brutes who force force it down and have to try 3 or 4 times to get it right.

This is personal opinion though and I still think good on him for publicising what's going on in Gitmo.
 
Gitmo was a mistake and to continue the farce is horrific they had no idea who they had captured innocent, cannon fodder or committed terrorist they even after years of torture appeared to have no clue.
They let dangerous men free
Kept the truly innocent and possibly spent years torturing cannon fodder who probably knew very little anyway.
 
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