Farewell to the original Thameslink trains

[teuchter]

With their distinctive cab-end and design for the specific requirements of the Thameslink route these trains seemed quite exotic to me, before I lived in London. More recently they have been the train that I get on from my local station.

New trains have been gradually replacing them for the past few months, and the next couple of days will be the final ones for the old units.

They were built in the late 80s by British Rail Engineering in York.

Last train on the Wimbledon Loop will be on Friday evening.

Last train on the Brighton line will be on Sunday evening.

Then they are off to the north of england for a new life.

 

[Pickman's model]

Bungle73

 

[editor]

Nice piece here:

The retractable door latch has been in widespread use for centuries. This simple device, familiar to any three-year-old, keeps the door shut until someone turns the handle. Thameslink uses a modified type of latch in most of its older carriages, one that gives a convincing impression of firm closure right up until the point where the train accelerates. The door then swings open, to the surprise of whoever just sat down in the neighbouring seat.

5 Things We'll Miss About Thameslink's Old Trains

 

[Chz]

Hahaha! Yeah, christ those end of carriage doors were useless.

The only thing I'll miss is the weird cafe/lounge thing in the old Brighton Express cars.

 

[A380]

The new ones (class 700s) are really uncomfortable. The seat pitch is too small for anyone over about 5'2'' to sit straight and the seats are too narrow. I know its so you can get more passengers in at rush hour on the Harpenden/StAlbans to St Pancras and Farringdon but they are bloody awful. Particularly if you do Gatwick /Bedford twice in four days as I've done recently. Horrid to sit in. I'll miss the old stock.

 

[oryx]

The new ones (class 700s) are really uncomfortable. The seat pitch is too small for anyone over about 5'2'' to sit straight and the seats are two narrow. I know its so you can get more passengers in at rush hour on the Harpenden/StAlbans to St Pancras and Farringdon but they are bloody awful. Particularly if you do Gatwick /Bedford twice in four days as I've done recently. Horrid to sit in. I'll miss the old stock.

Are they the ones without the tables, or any surface to rest things on on a longish journey? If so they're very annoying.

I witnessed an altercation between two men on the Brighton Thameslink train recently, who had just been chatting pleasantly about the breed of dog one of them had (it looked like a pug with a less squashed nose ).

Next thing I knew they were arguing hammer and tongs because Pugman had his feet on the seat to use his laptop!

 

[A380]

Are they the ones without the tables, or any surface to rest things on on a longish journey? If so they're very annoying.

I witnessed an altercation between two men on the Brighton Thameslink train recently, who had just been chatting pleasantly about the breed of dog one of them had (it looked like a pug with a less squashed nose ).

Next thing I knew they were arguing hammer and tongs because Pugman had his feet on the seat to use his laptop!

No tables of any kind. It's a nightmare. If there isn't a set of four seats free you have no hope of using a laptop. They are horrible.

 

[oryx]

No tables of any kind. It's a nightmare. If there isn't a set of four seats free you have no hope of using a laptop. They are horrible.

You don't have a pug-like dog, do you?

 

[A380]

Bloke who told me off was a wanker and he upset Mr Woofles.

No, don't have a pug....

 

[teuchter]

I don't mind the new ones. They do have a lot more space. I use them for short journeys - the seats are fine for that but I can see they might not be for longer journeys.

 

[Crispy]

The AC was broken on one of the new trains yesterday. Made it even hotter than the old ones, which at least had opening windows. Otherwise, they're a huge improvement. Much quicker to board/alight, more space, better toilets, walk-through carriages.

The thing I'm *really* looking forward to is the end to the game of chance at Farringdon (and other 12-carriage platforms in the central section) where your ideal boarding point could be 50m away from where you're waiting and you won't know to change until you can see the front of the arriving train. It's a farce seeing people craning their necks out over the tracks to see what's coming and then legging it up the platform.

 

[IC3D]

Fond memories of gratis trips from Finsbury Park to Brighton London Road most weekends then the paid for reasonably priced Luton to Brighton with family.

 

[teuchter]

The AC was broken on one of the new trains yesterday. Made it even hotter than the old ones, which at least had opening windows.

Most modern trains with AC have a couple of openable hopper windows in each carriage (can be opened with guard's key) to deal with this scenario. For some reason, the new Thameslink trains don't have anything at all.

 

[lazythursday]

I think I've been on some of the refurbished ones that have already arrived in the north. I don't like the 3+2 seats across layout - this is unsuitable for many of my wider northern compatriots and those of us who have to squeeze next to them - and it is reminiscent of the dreaded Pacer. And I don't like having to face other people either, especially not without the barrier of a table in between. I predict that this layout will cause carnage on late night trains and football match days as it positively encourages interaction between passengers which I know rarely happens in the capital but unfortunately does occur much too often up here.

 

[A380]

I think I've been on some of the refurbished ones that have already arrived in the north. I don't like the 3+2 seats across layout - this is unsuitable for many of my wider northern compatriots and those of us who have to squeeze next to them - and it is reminiscent of the dreaded Pacer. And I don't like having to face other people either, especially not without the barrier of a table in between. I predict that this layout will cause carnage on late night trains and football match days as it positively encourages interaction between passengers which I know rarely happens in the capital but unfortunately does occur much too often up here.

Are you dissing our cast offs?

I am surprised that hords from the North don't descend on London and burn it down given the way we southerners take the piss over transport infrastructure funding.

(I know Boudicca did, but she was from Essex. Now days she wouldn't get in on the Greater Anglia service.)

 

[T & P]

View attachment 114216

With their distinctive cab-end and design for the specific requirements of the Thameslink route these trains seemed quite exotic to me, before I lived in London. More recently they have been the train that I get on from my local station.

New trains have been gradually replacing them for the past few months, and the next couple of days will be the final ones for the old units.

They were built in the late 80s by British Rail Engineering in York.

Last train on the Wimbledon Loop will be on Friday evening.

Last train on the Brighton line will be on Sunday evening.

Then they are off to the north of england for a new life.

Out of curiosity, why did the Thameslink route trains require a different design to those servicing other lines?

 

[Crispy]

Out of curiosity, why did the Thameslink route trains require a different design to those servicing other lines?

Slightly smaller profile to fit through the tunnel at kings cross, dual power supplies for overhead and third rail, and the ability to exit the train through the drivers cab if it got stuck in a tunnel.

 

[T & P]

Slightly smaller profile to fit through the tunnel at kings cross, dual power supplies for overhead and third rail, and the ability to exit the train through the drivers cab if it got stuck in a tunnel.

Wow, most interesting. Cheers.

Is the King's Cross tunnel in question unique in its narrowness? And does it mean that in case of an emergency all passengers would have to disembark only through the driver's cab at either end?

 

[Crispy]

Wow, most interesting. Cheers.

Is the King's Cross tunnel in question unique in its narrowness? And does it mean that in case of an emergency all passengers would have to disembark only through the driver's cab at either end?

Yeah, just like the deep tube trains.

Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the tunnel in question is no longer in use, now that the new Thameslink station at kings cross is open. The new tunnel is wide enough for escape via the side doors (as are the existing tunnels between kings cross, Farringdon, and Blackfriars). Therefore the new trains can have normal cabs.

 

[A380]

Yeah, just like the deep tube trains.

Don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure the tunnel in question is no longer in use, now that the new Thameslink station at kings cross is open. The new tunnel is wide enough for escape via the side doors (as are the existing tunnels between kings cross, Farringdon, and Blackfriars). Therefore the new trains can have normal cabs.

I'm fairly sure the new St Pancras Thames Link doesn't use the narrow tunnels. Will look this morning.

Do you know if the old tunnels on the now defunct Moorgate /Barbican Thames Link spur narrow as well?

 

[Crispy]

The City Widened Lines, including the Metropolitan line, from KingsX to Moorgate were built (but not AFAIK ever used) for broad gauge trains, so they're wide enough for side-door escape.

 

[Chz]

Do you know if the old tunnels on the now defunct Moorgate /Barbican Thames Link spur narrow as well?

They're mostly pretty wide, because most of it was open-air and then built on top of. There are a few narrow bits, but I'm not sure if they're long enough to make a difference in an evacuation.
See here: https://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/in-pictures-a-walk-on-the-widened-lines/
Farringdon - Barbican - Moorgate BR

Maybe the portal to Barbican would be an issue?

 

[lazythursday]

Are you dissing our cast offs?

I am surprised that hords from the North don't descend on London and burn it down given the way we southerners take the piss over transport infrastructure funding.

(I know Boudicca did, but she was from Essex. Now days she wouldn't get in on the Greater Anglia service.)

Well, you send us your shitty old trains, we send you Brexit, what goes around comes around and all that...

Thankfully I won't have to put up with these clapped out Cockney trains on my local line as we don't have these newfangled electric wires and probably never will, as the government has announced they are far too complicated to rig up outside of the M25. The 319s have gone to the Liverpool-Manchester route mainly I think, the oldest passenger route in the world.

 

[Bungle73]

The AC was broken on one of the new trains yesterday. Made it even hotter than the old ones, which at least had opening windows. Otherwise, they're a huge improvement. Much quicker to board/alight, more space, better toilets, walk-through carriages.

The thing I'm *really* looking forward to is the end to the game of chance at Farringdon (and other 12-carriage platforms in the central section) where your ideal boarding point could be 50m away from where you're waiting and you won't know to change until you can see the front of the arriving train. It's a farce seeing people craning their necks out over the tracks to see what's coming and then legging it up the platform.

Why can't they put the next train's number of carriages on the departures board, and announce it over the PA? They do on Southeastern.

 

[Crispy]

Why can't they put the next train's number of carriages on the departures board, and announce it over the PA? They do on Southeastern.

They used to, when they ran 4-car trains (shudder). The new trains are just as long as the old ones so there's no way of telling them apart on the display, they just stop at a different place on the platform due to the different locations of the manual and automatic signalling in the central section.

Sometimes the Farringdon announcer would be kind and say if it's a new train approaching. All academic now anyway.

 

[davesgcr]

Well, you send us your shitty old trains, we send you Brexit, what goes around comes around and all that...

Thankfully I won't have to put up with these clapped out Cockney trains on my local line as we don't have these newfangled electric wires and probably never will, as the government has announced they are far too complicated to rig up outside of the M25. The 319s have gone to the Liverpool-Manchester route mainly I think, the oldest passenger route in the world.

Travelled on the 0952 Manchester - Liverpool on what you described as a "shitty old train" -319363 actually (old friend) , apart from being fully and nicely refurbished , spotlessly clean with a friendly conductor who checked all tickets , running at close on 90 mph some sections , what , please is the issue ? (or do you not live on a newly electrified route , in which case , please take it up with your local representatives - or maybe Transport for the North -whatever the new Quango is ...!)

PS - I will travel on a 319 in the morning on our local south of M25 branch line ,people do not complain about that ....

 

[Dogsauce]

Back when they first electrified the local lines north of Leeds the service was operated by cascaded EMUs from elsewhere - 305s/308s - 1960s units replacing 'modern' 1980s diesel units! It was a few years before new electric stock was delivered, the Siemens class 333s which aren't half bad.

 

[davesgcr]

Back when they first electrified the local lines north of Leeds the service was operated by cascaded EMUs from elsewhere - 305s/308s - 1960s units replacing 'modern' 1980s diesel units! It was a few years before new electric stock was delivered, the Siemens class 333s which aren't half bad.

All down to that great John Major and his privatisation initiative , - though to be fair , those 333's are great , especially when made up to 4 cars (which I had something to do with in a previous life/ job) - probably one of the best regional operations for quality etc ......(and a clear example of what you can do) ...

 

[nuffsaid]

The new ones are much better, you can get on at any carriage and mug everyone up and down the entire train without having to stop to open doors.

 

[ska invita]

my review of the new ones: Seats are hard and uncomfortable, colours and atmosphere is sterile. Big windows though, which are good