EU Residence Permits

[PazzyL]

Recently joined and first time poster. After some advice regarding residence permits and criminal record checks.

Now that the UK is out of Europe and we're no longer apart of ECRIS SISII and other real time database info sharing systems I've decided to leave the UK and start over in the EU. The catch is that I have a a criminal record and spent some time in prison during 2015. I got 18 months and spent a few in prison then on tag. For clarity I regret it, I fucked up and I got my punishment.

The upside is I'm highly educated to masters level and I have a super supportive wife who has stuck with me during this hard time. I've noticed some countries don't require police certificates for spouses and dependents of those on a work visa or EU blue card. So my wife has been applying in the EU and has subsequently received 3 job offers for different countries. She would get an EU blue card and I would come as a spouse. I've thoroughly checked the process and I do not have to submit any extract from my criminal record in any of these countries. Instead I need to tick if I have a criminal record or not. I will be ticking no on this.

I've never declared my criminal record in the EU before and I've never been in trouble within the EU. Any details of me on ECRIS & SISII should have been deleted. I understand these countries, that I go to as a spouse, will undertake some sort of background check. I'm wondering how in depth these will be? My two concerns is that the country will directly contact ACPO and request my PNC record(But I think unlikely). Alternatively use INTERPOL channels for any intelligence that may have been circulated of me. But how through would these be?

Unfortunately information surrounding this is scarce. Anyone with experience/knowledge or thoughts?

-Pazzy

 

[Flavour]

Depends on which country in the EU but I think you will get in major shit if you declare that you don't have a criminal record and they then find out that you do. Does your wife have EU citizenship?

 

[PazzyL]

Depends on which country in the EU but I think you will get in major shit if you declare that you don't have a criminal record and they then find out that you do. Does your wife have EU citizenship?

True, I would get in major shit. It would probably be the better option to be honest and hope to get the visa.

However why would it depend which country? Do some EU countries do background checks differently? How would a country find out about an old criminal record ?

 

[existentialist]

True, I would get in major shit. It would probably be the better option to be honest and hope to get the visa.

However why would it depend which country? Do some EU countries do background checks differently? How would a country find out about an old criminal record ?

Different countries in the EU still have different policing systems, laws, and attitudes towards past criminality. I could well imagine that, say, the Netherlands might take a more tolerant view of convictions for past drug use than one of the more authoritarian regimes would.

 

[Flavour]

True, I would get in major shit. It would probably be the better option to be honest and hope to get the visa.

However why would it depend which country? Do some EU countries do background checks differently? How would a country find out about an old criminal record ?

Immigration law is still largely a matter for Member States to decide autonomously, regardless of things like the Schengen Area and the rules for Asylum seekers.

 

[The39thStep]

For Portugal, you apply for residency through SEF now which is Border Control. Applying for Residence in Portugal – The Official Website of Portuguese Immigration

 

[PazzyL]

Different countries in the EU still have different policing systems, laws, and attitudes towards past criminality. I could well imagine that, say, the Netherlands might take a more tolerant view of convictions for past drug use than one of the more authoritarian regimes would.

That is true. My hesitancy is if I declare, my details would be fully on the EU system for who knows how long. And if I'm denied I'll probably always be denied so the repercussions of an entry ban for lying about past criminality is no worse than forever being denied entry/working visas in the future because I declared my record.

 

[PazzyL]

For Portugal, you apply for residency through SEF now which is Border Control. Applying for Residence in Portugal – The Official Website of Portuguese Immigration

Portugal ask for an extract from the person's criminal record, even for a family reunification visa.

 

[kebabking]

true. My hesitancy is if I declare, my details would be fully on the EU system for who knows how long. And if I'm denied I'll probably always be denied so the repercussions of an entry ban for lying about past criminality is no worse than forever being denied entry/working visas in the future because I declared my record.

Not true, different states will have different attitudes to previous convictions - what for, how long ago etc.. so you just need to work out which states are a better bet.

But, if you lie on your application, are subsequently found out, and have your visa/permit revoked, you are very unlikely to be accepted by any EU state for somewhere between X number of years and forever.

I'm sure your wife will be delighted if you get turfed out of whatever state she gets a job in, builds a life, career etc.. in, and then has to decide whether to return to the UK with your sorry arse, or to just ditch you and stay put.

She may stick by you again, or she may just decide you're a twat, and a liability....

 

[The39thStep]

Portugal ask for an extract from the person's criminal record, even for a family reunification visa.

I know two or three people who have received residency here since Brexit , none were asked about their criminal record .

 

[dessiato]

On what grounds do you expect your wife to get a blue card?

Here in Spain only 39 blue cards were issued in 2019. The application cost is over €400, and you need to earn almost €34k.

I‘m curious to know why you’d apply for a blue card and not residency.

 

[PazzyL]

On what grounds do you expect your wife to get a blue card?

Here in Spain only 39 blue cards were issued in 2019. The application cost is over €400, and you need to earn almost €34k.

I‘m curious to know why you’d apply for a blue card and not residency.

We both earn over £70k GBP (80k EUR) in the UK. It's enough for an EU blue card in any EU country except I think Luxembourg. Residency asks for criminal record extract to be submitted with application & neither of us fall under the withdrawal agreement so we need to get temporary residence in the country for 5 years before residency.

 

[PazzyL]

I know two or three people who have received residency here since Brexit , none were asked about their criminal record .

Hmm. Still states in the document article 98 paragraph 2 that it is required. Though I know if you are renewing your preexisting residence permit you no longer need to present your police certificate. So perhaps those Brits you know were just renewing?

 

[PazzyL]

Not true, different states will have different attitudes to previous convictions - what for, how long ago etc.. so you just need to work out which states are a better bet.

But, if you lie on your application, are subsequently found out, and have your visa/permit revoked, you are very unlikely to be accepted by any EU state for somewhere between X number of years and forever.

I'm sure your wife will be delighted if you get turfed out of whatever state she gets a job in, builds a life, career etc.. in, and then has to decide whether to return to the UK with your sorry arse, or to just ditch you and stay put.

She may stick by you again, or she may just decide you're a twat, and a liability....

I know. Most countries are less than a year or no time in prison or so I've heard. Though info is scarce. I know the stakes are high. This is why I'm asking how would they find out? As long as I'm a law abiding citizen living with my family why would my past criminal record ever come to light?

I've also used background checks via subject access requests like world-check and a few others to see what info, in any, appear. I'm pretty much a ghost on the internet. No records of my court dates. No google effect whatsoever.

 

[Nikkormat]

Really can't remember what I submitted for residency in Czech Republic, but maybe eight years ago I had to get a copy of my Czech record (you could get it from a post office at the time) and when it came it had a sheet attached with my UK record on it - they clearly routinely accessed UK records. All that was pre-Brexit, of course.

 

[A380]

My knowledge is about 10 years out of date but FWITW.

Lots of the old Eastern European countries don't worry too much on keeping up records of convictions - a couple even don't have any form of criminal records, basically once you complete your sentence there is no public record (The police do keep intelligence records). This was explained to me as a reaction to the old soviet record keeping and controls.

So, if you have a choice go East.

Because we weren't a full member of Schengen, ACRO record supply to EU nations was done on a bilateral basis, i.e state to state and not to the whole EU -unlike say the European arrest warrants. So I can't see why Brexit would have made any difference to data exchange - but as I say I haven't worked in this area for years.

I can't imagine counties like France, Germany or the low countries not checking for significant decisions like long term immigration. Most governments don't want the headlines of foreign criminals doing stuff, or even being there. So, for what its worth I think if you lie there is a high chance you will get found out. That might not mean a complete bar but it certainly ain't going to help especially if you are saying you did your time; learn't your lesson and turned over a new leaf. If your conviction was for dishonesty that would complete fuck any rehabilitation argument. Personally I'd declare, ask for a face to face interview and then lay on the whole "I paid my debt, learnt from it and am now a better person line."

However:

I speak to a specialist immigration lawyer from the country you want to go to, listen to what they say and follow their advice.

 

[dessiato]

We both earn over £70k GBP (80k EUR) in the UK. It's enough for an EU blue card in any EU country except I think Luxembourg. Residency asks for criminal record extract to be submitted with application & neither of us fall under the withdrawal agreement so we need to get temporary residence in the country for 5 years before residency.

That’s in the U.K. What will you be earning in the EU? It’s EU earnings that count, not what you used to earn in the U.K.

 

[PazzyL]

Really can't remember what I submitted for residency in Czech Republic, but maybe eight years ago I had to get a copy of my Czech record (you could get it from a post office at the time) and when it came it had a sheet attached with my UK record on it - they clearly routinely accessed UK records. All that was pre-Brexit, of course.

I guess this would be because UK were apart of ECRIS (EU criminal records). Meaning that Any country in the EU could access the PNC or any other EU's criminal database. UK is no longer apart of ECRIS and therefore all UK private data is not routinely accessible. The EU is pretty bureaucratic and sticklers for rules and with GDPR I do believe they would remove all UK related data they had stored previously.

 

[A380]

I guess this would be because UK were apart of ECRIS (EU criminal records). Meaning that Any country in the EU could access the PNC or any other EU's criminal database. UK is no longer apart of ECRIS and therefore all UK private data is not routinely accessible. The EU is pretty bureaucratic and sticklers for rules and with GDPR I do believe they would remove all UK related data they had stored previously.

ECRIS allowed access for intelligence purposes, which is / was different from getting a version of the information for legal purposes which , I think, would go through the UK Central Authority.

 

[PazzyL]

That’s in the U.K. What will you be earning in the EU? It’s EU earnings that count, not what you used to earn in the U.K.

She has 3 others for 3 different countries so far. All in the region of 60-80k Euros. She is eligible for EU blue card.

 

[PazzyL]

My knowledge is about 10 years out of date but FWITW.

Lots of the old Eastern European countries don't worry too much on keeping up records of convictions - a couple even don't have any form of criminal records, basically once you complete your sentence there is no public record (The police do keep intelligence records). This was explained to me as a reaction to the old soviet record keeping and controls.

So, if you have a choice go East.

Because we weren't a full member of Schengen, ACRO record supply to EU nations was done on a bilateral basis, i.e state to state and not to the whole EU -unlike say the European arrest warrants. So I can't see why Brexit would have made any difference to data exchange - but as I say I haven't worked in this area for years.

I can't imagine counties like France, Germany or the low countries not checking for significant decisions like long term immigration. Most governments don't want the headlines of foreign criminals doing stuff, or even being there. So, for what its worth I think if you lie there is a high chance you will get found out. That might not mean a complete bar but it certainly ain't going to help especially if you are saying you did your time; learn't your lesson and turned over a new leaf. If your conviction was for dishonesty that would complete fuck any rehabilitation argument. Personally I'd declare, ask for a face to face interview and then lay on the whole "I paid my debt, learnt from it and am now a better person line."

However:

I speak to a specialist immigration lawyer from the country you want to go to, listen to what they say and follow their advice.

Very informative, thanks. My crime wasn't dishonesty. For full disclosure my offense was of a violent nature. A single conviction in an otherwise 47 year conviction free life. Most countries don't look very favorably on violent offenses, so I've heard.

What about Nordic countries? I heard they are quite lenient on past crimes, what of their background checking process?

From your knowledge, countries like the low countries, Germany, France, Italy etc, would they use those bilateral agreements to specifically request data on visa applicants from UK authorities or would they rely on my applicant's own admission and run standardised database checks?

 

[Riklet]

Where do you actually want to live though and why? Sure you can probably still get residence in some states with a bit of paperwork and others with a work related visa or somesuch and others with a bit wedge of cash/investment.

If your conviction was a long time ago but still on the records, better to be honest than lie and have it come up in a search.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Check with a specialist lawyer, the system is too new to have any meaningful reference points, but based on the US and Australia, they won’t have access to your criminal record, so unless your crime was high profile or you grass yourself up you should be fine.

 

[Dom Traynor]

She has 3 others for 3 different countries so far. All in the region of 60-80k Euros. She is eligible for EU blue card.

Just get advice from an immigration lawyer in the country you're intending to visit. They won't grass you up. But I will say that lies and omission to bureaucracy has never let me down.

 

[A380]

Very informative, thanks. My crime wasn't dishonesty. For full disclosure my offense was of a violent nature. A single conviction in an otherwise 47 year conviction free life. Most countries don't look very favorably on violent offenses, so I've heard.

What about Nordic countries? I heard they are quite lenient on past crimes, what of their background checking process?

From your knowledge, countries like the low countries, Germany, France, Italy etc, would they use those bilateral agreements to specifically request data on visa applicants from UK authorities or would they rely on my applicant's own admission and run standardised database checks?

God knows, as I say its over 10 years since I worked in that field.

Speak to an immigration lawyer in the country you want to go to for advice. But if the country you want to go to has decided they don't ant people convicted of violent crime from other countries why are you different from the people they want to keep out? If you are a special case you really need to make the argument up front because you won't get a chance to if caught out later.

 

[MrCurry]

What about Nordic countries? I heard they are quite lenient on past crimes, what of their background checking process?

The Swedish police website has this form which says it’s only for Swedish and U.K. citizens to use. That might suggest they still have access to U.K. criminal records through some system perhaps? Also, this one states it still works for U.K. criminal records : Extract from another EU country’s criminal records registry | The Swedish Police Authority

That’s not the same as saying the migration agency (Migrationsverket) also does so, or would make use of it, but it’s possible. You probably realise that you can’t just move over easily any more, you’ll need a job offer and to apply for and be given a work permit against which a residence permit can be secured. And if you break the terms of those permits, by committing such serious crimes as not taking enough annual leave, for example, you won’t be allowed to renew it.