ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE - what's that all about?

[chico enrico]

just watched THIS on youtube :



i'm confused

what are they all about? i'd never heard of them before and whilst my initial reaction would be to think they were some sort of BNP front group, their banners and placards would suggest otherwise.

Also, a few years ago I went along to a NF anti-muslim march. for a laugh and to take the piss. and there was a big mob there called something like the United British Alliance who basically LOOKED like a far right group only with more Stone Island clobber and less of the child molestor/cat strangler types that nazi groups usually attract. basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike.

not that i saw many black/asian faces amongst them, or this EDL lot.

so what are they all about?

(and apologies if this topic has been done before - i'm a bit out the loop when it comes to politics these days)

 

[strung out]

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=297175

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Was looking at Y-Front just now and they were moaning about them flying an Israel flag and allowing black and asian people who were 'for england' to join.

 

[DotCommunist]

bunch of far right 'we aint rascist honestly guv' boneheads who are apparently protesting against sharia law. They should fuck off somewhere that actually has sharia law imo

 

[el-ahrairah]

They're not racists, they just help out when racists need a hand.

 

[butchersapron]

basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike.

One prominent one that day was 'One nation - many races'. The UBA as was was picked up by some more ideologically political types hoping to take advantage of the incoherence of the orignal UBA. When unable to take over the name proper set up their own little outfits, most of these new ones are not proper hoolies, they're mostly the green-street generation, but some of the old faces are still around.

 

[fogbat]

According to some stuff of theirs I've read, they're fed up of Muslims "taking the piss".

They're rather vague about how said piss is taken

 

[Spion]

They're rather vague about how said piss is taken

I think the fact they live in the UK is a bit much for them

 

[Shevek]

just watched THIS on youtube :



i'm confused

what are they all about? i'd never heard of them before and whilst my initial reaction would be to think they were some sort of BNP front group, their banners and placards would suggest otherwise.

Also, a few years ago I went along to a NF anti-muslim march. for a laugh and to take the piss. and there was a big mob there called something like the United British Alliance who basically LOOKED like a far right group only with more Stone Island clobber and less of the child molestor/cat strangler types that nazi groups usually attract. basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike.

not that i saw many black/asian faces amongst them, or this EDL lot.

so what are they all about?

(and apologies if this topic has been done before - i'm a bit out the loop when it comes to politics these days)

sorry couldn't face watching the whole thing. I dont claim to understand it either though.

 

[trevhagl]

just watched THIS on youtube :



i'm confused

what are they all about? i'd never heard of them before and whilst my initial reaction would be to think they were some sort of BNP front group, their banners and placards would suggest otherwise.

Also, a few years ago I went along to a NF anti-muslim march. for a laugh and to take the piss. and there was a big mob there called something like the United British Alliance who basically LOOKED like a far right group only with more Stone Island clobber and less of the child molestor/cat strangler types that nazi groups usually attract. basically they just looked like a big football firm and sure their banner said something like "against racist - for britain" or suchlike.

not that i saw many black/asian faces amongst them, or this EDL lot.

so what are they all about?

(and apologies if this topic has been done before - i'm a bit out the loop when it comes to politics these days)

would it be rude to ask what a mulsim is?

 

[trevhagl]

sorry couldn't face watching the whole thing. I dont claim to understand it either though.

well if you ever manage to understand it it can you explain it to ME! That was one of the wierdest videos i've ever seen. Did ya see the spokesman had a Red Hot Chili Peppers tshirt on!???

 

[Bajie]

They want stuff to stop, but apart from telling the people concerned to stop it, they are not sure what else to do about it.

In other words:

 

[behemoth]

They should fuck off somewhere that actually has sharia law imo

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

 

[Nigel]

Rule Of Thumb

Think it is a bit dodgy that 'domestic violence' cases are brought under civil proceedings of any kind, especially without any compensation given.
Surely assault and/or harrasement would be considered a criminal offence.

 

[behemoth]

My understanding is nowadays the police can and will prosecute for domestic violence even if the woman doesn't want them to. Will there now be pressure applied to not do so? Equally worrying is the inheritance issue. Were the women advised legally they were likely to get less than men, and was any undue pressure applied to go down this route? Would a proper court be allowed to overturn such rulings? I was also unaware of Jewish courts.

 

[Nigel]

As far as a I can work out the inheritence/divorce issue works in the favour of the divorcee, nullifying marriages and arrangements that would take years to deal with otherwise, most dowrys would go to family.

 

[purplex]

According to some stuff of theirs I've read, they're fed up of Muslims "taking the piss".

They're rather vague about how said piss is taken

The usual stuff

Protesting in returning soldiers faces
Implementing sharia law
Committing and plotting terrorist outrages and covering up for those that do
Supporting Al-Qaeda
Attempting to force their culture onto us (banning christmas etc.)

Check out paul rays lionheart blog for further reasons to be outraged at them muslims.

 

[frogwoman]

Same shit's been going on for Jewish courts for some years now (and the people who use them also tend to be fundamentalist wankers), either have none or have some Muslim courts as well.

 

[Diamond]

I'd argue for none. The French have the right idea. We need a secular state.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'd argue for none. The French have the right idea. We need a secular state.

I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik

 

[Fictionist]

I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik

The problem lies in the process when religious law is seen as being above any secular law - thereby rendering any appeal to secular law meaningless. In practical terms this might mean that an apellant seeking redress within a secular context (perhaps after engaging with a religious framework) would find themselves dislocated from a community that shares in the belief that religion is all. And therein is the rub.

 

[kenny g]

The problem lies in the process when religious law is seen as being above any secular law - thereby rendering any appeal to secular law meaningless. In practical terms this might mean that an apellant seeking redress within a secular context (perhaps after engaging with a religious framework) would find themselves dislocated from a community that shares in the belief that religion is all. And therein is the rub.

Well if the community feels that way how are you going to stop them? If people wish to belong to a community or organisation I think that community or organisation can be given the right to have its own tribunals / courts etc as long as there is the right of appeal through such mechanisms as judicial review to a higher Court outside the organisation.

Some of he arguments being used against Sharia Courts were used against people such as the Tolpuddle Martyres due to their alleged use of oaths etc.

At the end of the day much of the way that islam is practiced is non-sensical but the same goes for a whole host of belief systems. Personally I have no problems with Sharia Courts for consenting parties in the UK. I do , however object to people preaching bollocks to impressionable teenagers in order to encourage them to kill innocents. The latter is done by a few small sects who have been allowed to get away with it for far too long.

 

[Diamond]

I don't mind religious courts so long as they are subservient to a secular judiciary so that there is basically a right to appeal to a secular crown court. Which is how it is currently afaik

That still rankles with me. The idea of one set of laws being subservient to another different set of laws. We need consistency throughout.

 

[likesfish]

appears top be people who just want to have a ruck with brown people

 

[Citizen66]

appears top be people who just want to have a ruck with brown people

It's 'Paki bashing' under the guise of 'peaceful protest' from where I'm sitting.

 

[likesfish]

football hooligans looking for more trouble and racist thugs.

 

[Badger Kitten]

EDL 'like blackshirts', says Communities Minister

Protesters compared to blackshirts

(UKPA) – 9 hours ago

A Cabinet minister has raised fears of a return to 1930s fascism, comparing modern right-wing groups to Oswald Mosley's Blackshirts.

Communities Secretary John Denham's comments came as he announced a drive to prevent white working class people being "exploited" by extremists.

He singled out protests being organised by the English Defence League, some of which have turned violent over recent months, with hundreds of supporters expected to gather in Trafalgar Square on Sunday.

Protesters from the Stop Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) group were involved in a demonstration outside a mosque in Harrow, north east London, to mark the anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

"I think that the English Defence League and other organisations are not actually large numbers of people," Mr Denham told the Guardian. "They clearly, though, have among them people who know what exactly they're doing.

"If you look at the types of demonstrations they've organised... it looks pretty clear that it's a tactic designed to provoke and to get a response and hopefully create violence."

Mr Denham pointed to historical "parallels" with the so-called 'Battle of Cable Street' in October 1936, when Mosley, leader of the British Union of Fascists, attempted to lead supporters through a Jewish area of the East End of London, leading to violent clashes.

"You could go back to the 1930s if you wanted to - Cable Street and all of those types of things. The tactic of trying to provoke a response in the hope of causing wider violence and mayhem is long established on the far-right and among extremist groups."

EDL's supporters are alleged to include far-right activists and football hooligans filmed at recent protests chanting racist slogans and making Nazi salutes. Mr Denham said there was a need for a broader strategy from government to "undercut issues that racists try to exploit".

In the coming weeks ministers will unveil a programme targeted at mainly white, working-class communities, he said. "You need to be prepared to let people's real underlying fears and concerns come out, but to be able to address them frankly and openly."

see also
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8251958.stm

 

[El Jefe]

they were all over breakfast news this morning

 

[tbaldwin]

On radio 5 edl spokesperson has said the leader of the edl youth wing is Black does anyone know if thats true?

 

[Pickman's model]

well, there's an ad on the edl forum site for a moslem matrimonial agency so i suppose anything's possible