Employment Support Allowance - switching from Contribution to Income-based

[andysays]

I've now been on ESA for just over a year, and have recently had a letter saying I'm being switched from Contribution-based to Income-related. I've got a few questions as a result, which I'm hoping that the Urban benefits collective might be able to help me with:

1. It says that 365 days is the most you can receive contributions based ESA, unless you are in the support group. I haven't been assessed to go in either the support group or the other one (is that called the work group?). Might it be to my advantage to push to be assessed, and if so how do I find out more?
2. I was expecting they would send me a form to collect all the info they need to assess me for income-related benefit based on my current position, but instead they have assessed me based on the years ending April 2011 and April 2012 (and I'm getting exactly the same as when it was contribution based). Is there any reason why they would do this?
3. If I am now received income related benefit, does that mean I'm also automatically entitled to free prescriptions, dental appointments etc?

It is probably relevant to mention that I currently have a significant level of savings, which would probably effect the amount of income based benefit I get. As far as I can remember, I wasn't asked about this when I applied for ESA a year ago, but I have since told a DWP investigator something about it when called in for a customer compliance interview, as recounted in a previous thread. I seem to remember he told me I would be asked to provide full details about this when the year was up and the switch came, but so far, no mention of it...

 

[tufty79]

Not sure about the first two, but income based ESA does mean you're entitled to free prescriptions/dentistry/eye tests etc. Also, after six months on income based you are eligible to apply for things like budgeting loans if you need to - afaik you can't do this with contributions based claims.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

I've now been on ESA for just over a year, and have recently had a letter saying I'm being switched from Contribution-based to Income-related. I've got a few questions as a result, which I'm hoping that the Urban benefits collective might be able to help me with:

1. It says that 365 days is the most you can receive contributions based ESA, unless you are in the support group. I haven't been assessed to go in either the support group or the other one (is that called the work group?). Might it be to my advantage to push to be assessed, and if so how do I find out more?
2. I was expecting they would send me a form to collect all the info they need to assess me for income-related benefit based on my current position, but instead they have assessed me based on the years ending April 2011 and April 2012 (and I'm getting exactly the same as when it was contribution based). Is there any reason why they would do this?
3. If I am now received income related benefit, does that mean I'm also automatically entitled to free prescriptions, dental appointments etc?

It is probably relevant to mention that I currently have a significant level of savings, which would probably effect the amount of income based benefit I get. As far as I can remember, I wasn't asked about this when I applied for ESA a year ago, but I have since told a DWP investigator something about it when called in for a customer compliance interview, as recounted in a previous thread. I seem to remember he told me I would be asked to provide full details about this when the year was up and the switch came, but so far, no mention of it...

1. Not sure why you haven't been assessed yet but undoubtedly you will be

2. Can't understand why they haven't. Maybe it's due to the backlog

3. Yes, although your significant savings may scupper you on that

 

[andysays]

Not sure about the first two, but income based ESA does mean you're entitled to free prescriptions/dentistry/eye tests etc. Also, after six months on income based you are eligible to apply for things like budgeting loans if you need to - afaik you can't do this with contributions based claims.

Yeah, I was 90% certain about that, but it's good to get it confirmed.

Looks like I should book an appointment to see the dentist then

 

[wtfftw]

Definitely switched not just that your contributions are ending?

 

[andysays]

1. Not sure why you haven't been assessed yet but undoubtedly you will be...

This is something seperate from an ATOS assessment (which I also haven't had), right? Does it normally happen after the ATOS assessment, or is there no particular order or logic to it?

2. Can't understand why they haven't. Maybe it's due to the backlog...

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had this experience. It doesn't say we're going to do this as a temporary measure while we assess you on your current position, it's like they're not interested in my current position.

Of course, it also says the standard thing about "required to immediately report any change of circumstances", but the circumstances they've already asked me about haven't changed, and in fact the amount of my savings has gone down in the past 12 months...

 

[andysays]

Definitely switched not just that your contributions are ending?

Yeah, definitely switched.

They sent me a letter couple of months ago saying they were going to do it, now they've sent me a letter saying they're doing it, and another saying how much money I'll be getting now they've done it

 

[Chris.H.1961]

This is something seperate from an ATOS assessment (which I also haven't had), right? Does it normally happen after the ATOS assessment, or is there no particular order or logic to it?



I'd be interested to know if anyone else has had this experience. It doesn't say we're going to do this as a temporary measure while we assess you on your current position, it's like they're not interested in my current position.

Of course, it also says the standard thing about "required to immediately report any change of circumstances", but the circumstances they've already asked me about haven't changed, and in fact the amount of my savings has gone down in the past 12 months...

Not 100 % sure sorry.. no doubt someone will know

 

[mog1976]

Im not sure of the amount but u wont get anything till your savings are used up. You need to get the cash out of the bank as soon as poss. Say you lost it betting or somthing like that . You wont get anything else till you get under the max amount ( think its 10 or 15k)
Go to www.gov .co uk to find iut more

 

[andysays]

Im not sure of the amount but u wont get anything till your savings are used up. You need to get the cash out of the bank as soon as poss. Say you lost it betting or somthing like that . You wont get anything else till you get under the max amount ( think its 10 or 15k)
Go to www.gov .co uk to find iut more

I'm aware of how it's supposed to work, the issue is that they haven't asked me about savings.

Are you suggesting I should take the money out of my account (I could say I'd spunked it on a bet on the Indy ref) then draw their attention to the issue by sending them a bank statement they haven't asked for?

ETA: just in case anyone doesn't realise, this is a joke. I have no intention of defrauding the DWP, if I did I certainly wouldn't discuss it here, and I'm sure mog1976 isn't really suggesting such a thing. All of those would be wrong...

 

[mog1976]

No. Thay will ask for it tho. Thay also then check it again when thay review your clam

 

[andysays]

No. Thay will ask for it tho. Thay also then check it again when thay review your clam

I was fully expecting them to ask about now, at the point when it becomes relevant, but they haven't...

So are you suggesting I say nothing until they do ask?

 

[wtfftw]

How bizarre.

Careful with hiding money or even spending it to get rid - that's not allowed.

So have I got this right?
You applied for ESA and filled in the medical questionnaire but haven't had a result from that (work or support)?
You've been on contributions ESA for a year but have now been put on income based without having to fill in the income assessment.


It sounds like you're on the assessment rate (which is meant to only last 13 weeks) and due to inept backlog has carried on forever. Unless of course the assessment rate is the same as oh I don't know.

I wouldn't say anything or argue tbh. I'd just take the money and the income perks. go to the dentist
Although maybe consider amount of savings and if that could get you into overpayment arse later.

 

[tufty79]

This is something seperate from an ATOS assessment (which I also haven't had), right? Does it normally happen after the ATOS assessment, or is there no particular order or logic to it?.

I might be misunderstanding your post - it's usually the atos assessment results that decide whether you're in the support group or the work related activity group (although I've heard of decisions being made without an atoms assessment being carried out, but think that's quite rare).

I was in the work related group a couple of years ago, and they transfered me onto income based automatically after i'd been on contributions based for a year..

I think scifisam had a similar experience to yours with conts-based ending before her assessment - i might be misremembering though.

 

[mog1976]

Thay will ask and if its in the bank then its too late.

 

[andysays]

How bizarre.

Careful with hiding money or even spending it to get rid - that's not allowed.

So have I got this right?
You applied for ESA and filled in the medical questionnaire but haven't had a result from that (work or support)?
You've been on contributions ESA for a year but have now been put on income based without having to fill in the income assessment.

It sounds like you're on the assessment rate (which is meant to only last 13 weeks) and due to inept backlog has carried on forever. Unless of course the assessment rate is the same as oh I don't know.

I wouldn't say anything or argue tbh. I'd just take the money and the income perks. go to the dentist
Although maybe consider amount of savings and if that could get you into overpayment arse later.

Bizarre is right. I'm aware about the rules about spending/hiding money, and I'm not intending to do that.

Your summary is right, and the rate has been the same for the whole year (went up very slightly for the new financial year).

Question - are you suggesting that the work/support decision is made on the basis of the initial medical questionaire? If so, this hasn't happened (and I'm still required to provide medical certs from my GP).

I'm inclined to say nothing and see what happens, but obviously there is the worry of "overpayment arse"...

 

[andysays]

I might be misunderstanding your post - it's usually the atos assessment results that decide whether you're in the support group or the work related activity group (although I've heard of decisions being made without an atoms assessment being carried out, but think that's quite rare).

I was in the work related group a couple of years ago, and they transfered me onto income based automatically after i'd been on contributions based for a year..

I think scifisam had a similar experience to yours with conts-based ending before her assessment - i might be misremembering though.

OK, that makes (sort of) sense. I haven't had an ATOS assessment.

What are the consequences of being put in the work group or the support group?

Maybe scifisam will be able to give me the benefit of her experience

 

[wtfftw]

Yep. Work/support is based on the questionnaire and usually a medical (I don't know if the initial assessment has to involve a medical - sometimes reassessments are done without them).
I'd just sit tight tbh.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

Bizarre is right. I'm aware about the rules about spending/hiding money, and I'm not intending to do that.

Your summary is right, and the rate has been the same for the whole year (went up very slightly for the new financial year).

Question - are you suggesting that the work/support decision is made on the basis of the initial medical questionaire? If so, this hasn't happened (and I'm still required to provide medical certs from my GP).

I'm inclined to say nothing and see what happens, but obviously there is the worry of "overpayment arse"...

Sounds like similar to my bro-in-law.. He gets ESA but still has to provide sick notes. He just had his assessment so I guess they will get to you as and when..

I think 'signing off on the sick' has changed now

 

[andysays]

Yep. Work/support is based on the questionnaire and usually a medical (I don't know if the initial assessment has to involve a medical - sometimes reassessments are done without them).
I'd just sit tight tbh.

I'll cite you as my advisor when the DWP come knocking

 

[andysays]

Sounds like similar to my bro-in-law.. He gets ESA but still has to provide sick notes. He just had his assessment so I guess they will get to you as and when..

I think 'signing off on the sick' has changed now

It's certainly changed from when it was Incapacity Benefit, which was what it was when I had to claim previously.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

It's certainly changed from when it was Incapacity Benefit, which was what it was when I had to claim previously.

I was on IB but got assessed for the switch to ESA early last year. Bastards are after me again though now which is strange considering all the news saying ATOS were finished (see my other thread)

 

[tufty79]

The work related activity group means you're required to see a jcp advisor regularly at the very least. I think my friend has been given targets for applying for jobs while she's been in it.
I was placed in the support group in march - so far, they haven't asked me to do anything.

 

[Chris.H.1961]

The work related activity group means you're required to see a jcp advisor regularly at the very least. I think my friend has been given targets for applying for jobs while she's been in it.
I was placed in the support group in march - so far, they haven't asked me to do anything.

And they won't as long as you are in it.. you can ask for help, if you really want to

 

[andysays]

The work related activity group means you're required to see a jcp advisor regularly at the very least. I think my friend has been given targets for applying for jobs while she's been in it.
I was placed in the support group in march - so far, they haven't asked me to do anything.

So the support group doesn't actually do anything to even give the pretence of offering support? I must say I'm shocked to hear that...

 

[tufty79]

As Chris.H.1961 said, I think I can get in touch with them and see an advisor - it's just not mandatory iyswim.
But yeah, 'support' is a bit of a misnomer.

 

[wtfftw]

The support is financial innit and not having a work related component to be docked for non compliance. How generous.

Fwiw if you're work activity group but don't get money (say post contributions but with a working partner) they also give up on making you do anything as there's nothing to threaten you with. I could voluntarily have a jcp advisor but no thanks.

 

[tufty79]

The support is financial innit and not having a work related component to be docked for non compliance. How generous.

Yeah, there is that

 

[Frances Lengel]

So the support group doesn't actually do anything to even give the pretence of offering support? I must say I'm shocked to hear that...

Nah mate, the "support" in support group refers to the claimant needing support to live rather than help to get back into work - The support group is pretty much the same as the old IB.

The work group means that sooner or later you'll have to attend monthly appointments at the job centre to discuss your options IME they're a piece of piss, but that may vary from jobcentre to jobcentre/advisor to advisor - I'm in the work group anyway & if there's anything you want to know, please do ask.

And yeah, being migrated onto the income based ESA means you automatically qualify for free prescriptions etc. But if your savings are above six grand then they will affect your entitlement.

 

[andysays]

Nah mate, the "support" in support group refers to the claimant needing support to live rather than help to get back into work - The support group is pretty much the same as the old IB.

The work group means that sooner or later you'll have to attend monthly appointments at the job centre to discuss your options IME they're a piece of piss, but that may vary from jobcentre to jobcentre/advisor to advisor - I'm in the work group anyway & if there's anything you want to know, please do ask.

And yeah, being migrated onto the income based ESA means you automatically qualify for free prescriptions etc. But if your savings are above six grand then they will affect your entitlement.

Thanks for that Frances.

I think I've got all the info I need ATM, but I'm sure if I need further advice, The Urban Benefits Collective will sort me out.

And thanks to everyone else who chipped in - I think I forgot to say that before