Dulwich Hamlet vs ASPIRE

[B.I.G]

In this thread we discuss the relationship between ASPIRE and Dulwich Hamlet FC.

Especially as we have a new director who has stated that the future “looks bleak”.

We have a manager that also runs an academy that is linked to the club in some way I believe.

Anyone wish to comment on how this link works?

Does the existence of a link between the manager and the academy mean its more difficult than it would be otherwise to separate the manager from the club?

Does ASPIRE make a profit that otherwise would be part of the club’s turnover and profit?

 

[Paula_G]

Does ASPIRE make a profit that otherwise would be part of the club’s turnover and profit?

Presumably that is a matter for ASPIRE to answer but the cost of setting up an Academy from scratch would be highly prohibitive especially in the heavily saturated market. Why have a expensive handmade Saville Row suit when you can buy one off the peg? With most clubs with an established Academy set up if Gavin were to take that side of the club with him he’d have to drop down quite a few levels. Not sure that is his intention in the game but maybe you know differently?

 

[Paula_G]

Does the existence of a link between the manager and the academy mean its more difficult than it would be otherwise to separate the manager from the club?

In my book “No”, after all a number of the coaches are former Dulwich players like Peter Adeniyi & the fact he is manager of Carshalton Athletic has not impacted on either their youth team or our Academy.

 

[B.I.G]

Presumably that is a matter for ASPIRE to answer but the cost of setting up an Academy from scratch would be highly prohibitive especially in the heavily saturated market. Why have a expensive handmade Saville Row suit when you can buy one off the peg? With most clubs with an established Academy set up if Gavin were to take that side of the club with him he’d have to drop down quite a few levels. Not sure that is his intention in the game but maybe you know differently?

Bringing an Academy team that is affiliated to the club rather than part of it is simply cost effective… There are many other clubs at this level who have a similar set up. Things may well change when the new ground is complete enabling the ASPIRE Academy to operate from Champion Hill even if Gavin is no longer manager, after all a number of the Academy coaches are former Dulwich players who have moved on…

These other clubs that have a similar setup.

How many have the director of the academy as their first team manager?

 

[Paula_G]

Does ASPIRE make a profit that otherwise would be part of the club’s turnover and profit?

If you’re concerned then maybe just do some research on ASPIRE Development Limited at Companies House or Gavin as a company. If you have any further questions after that please post them here…

 

[Paula_G]

These other clubs that have a similar setup.

How many have the director the academy as their first team manager?

Frankly don’t know and don’t care.. Makes no difference to me but then my agenda is not whether or not the Academy benefits Dulwich Hamlet but whether Gavin can be sacked..

 

[scousedom]

Help a nouveau out as this is a topic I’ve often wondered about. What was the academy set before Gavin? Did he bring Aspire with him? Inherit it? Set it up while here?

 

[B.I.G]

If you’re concerned then maybe just do some research on ASPIRE Development Limited at Companies House or Gavin as a company. If you have any further questions after that please post them here…

Further questions.

What agreement in writing is there between the club and the academy in terms of funds received for sale of players that are registered to dulwich?

Was there any previous agreement between the club and ASPIRE that covers any players sold for money and has all money been paid to the club in line with that agreement?

What safeguarding checks does the club do on the academy?

 

[B.I.G]

Frankly don’t know and don’t care.. Makes no difference to me but then my agenda is not whether or not the Academy benefits Dulwich Hamlet but whether Gavin can be sacked..

You seemed very well informed on all matters. Now you don’t know and don’t care.

Do you consider that it would be more difficult to sack Gavin considering the links between ASPIRE and the club?

 

[Paula_G]

Further questions.

What agreement in writing is there between the club and the academy in terms of funds received for sale of players that are registered to dulwich?

Was there any previous agreement between the club and ASPIRE that covers any players sold for money and has all money been paid to the club in line with that agreement?

What safeguarding checks does the club do on the academy? Do all the coaches have the suitable checks for working with children for example and has this always been the case?

There is an agreement in place regarding player sales which has been published in the past. As I am not speaking in an official capacity I cannot say that it is the same now as it was when I was on the committee.
Money paid to the club? Any transfer from Dulwich Hamlet the fee is paid to Dulwich Hamlet. Perhaps the question should be rephrased to ask whether the Academy had received all the money that was due to it!
If ever a question showed how little understanding someone has of how youth football has been run in the U.K. for many years it is this one on safeguarding. Without a safeguarding policy & officer in place for every team affiliated to Dulwich Hamlet, men’s, women’s, academy, youth… the club would not be the holder of an FA Charter Standard Club Award..

 

[Paula_G]

You seemed very well informed on all matters. Now you don’t know and don’t care.

When it comes to other clubs what they do or don’t do is of no concern to me. But then again I don’t have a vendetta against the current club manager. You spend a lot of time asking questions on here. Perhaps at some point in the not too distant future you sit down with a list of these questions & at a club AGM post them directly to the chair of the club & the manager…

 

[B.I.G]

When it comes to other clubs what they do or don’t do is of no concern to me. But then again I don’t have a vendetta against the current club manager. You spend a lot of time asking questions on here. Perhaps at some point in the not too distant future you sit down with a list of these questions & at a club AGM post them directly to the chair of the club & the manager…

I have a vendetta? Based on what?

 

[B.I.G]

.

 

[B.I.G]

Help a nouveau out as this is a topic I’ve often wondered about. What was the academy set before Gavin? Did he bring Aspire with him? Inherit it? Set it up while here?

Apparently you shouldn’t be asking this on here but instead at the AGM. But if anyone knows the answer maybe it won’t get lost in the middle of the thread.

 

[Paula_G]

I have a vendetta? Based on what?

Your posts seem to rather give that away… “A manager we can’t sack” being very much a point in case… Perhaps you’d be better served coming straight to the point & start an honest thread on why you feel that Dulwich Hamlet, playing at the highest level in my nearly three decades of watching the club in front of crowds those of us still around from those days never dreamed of, to get publicity well beyond the a couple of columns three pages back in the South London Press or yours truly supplying prose to the Southwark News, should be sacking our manager because somebody doesn’t like the style of football being played or whatever…

 

[Paula_G]

 

[B.I.G]

Your posts seem to rather give that away… “A manager we can’t sack” being very much a point in case… Perhaps you’d be better served coming straight to the point & start an honest thread on why you feel that Dulwich Hamlet, playing at the highest level in my nearly three decades of watching the club in front of crowds those of us still around from those days never dreamed of, to get publicity well beyond the a couple of columns three pages back in the South London Press or yours truly supplying prose to the Southwark News, should be sacking our manager because somebody doesn’t like the style of football being played or whatever…

I heard the future “looked bleak” and we had a financial crisis.

Not sure how your three decades of watching the club are relevant when you base your opinion of my views on two days of posting.

A vendetta? Ridiculous.

 

[B.I.G]

.

 

[Paula_G]

Help a nouveau out as this is a topic I’ve often wondered about. What was the academy set before Gavin? Did he bring Aspire with him? Inherit it? Set it up while here?

Gavin brought the ASPIRE Academy with him from Beckenham Town, Dulwich had a stand-alone youth team prior that which had one of the best runs in the FA Youth Cup reaching the last 16. The ASPIRE Academy has grown since Gavin & Junior brought them here to cover a range of ages covering male & female football from the original under 18s squad.

 

[Paula_G]

I heard the future “looked bleak” and we had a financial crisis.

In case you haven’t noticed there has been a pandemic with games played behind closed doors & next to no income from supporters either via admission or bars. Yet players and staff still had to be paid & bills had to paid. That money still has to be recouped as the club goes forward. No matter our feelings as supporters about the National League, feelings shared by the directors by the way, if the club is to progress to & compete at the next level then income streams must be improved. The top division of the National League will probably double maybe even treble the budget factoring in travelling & player wages. Suppose some would be happy to have a couple of hundred fans rattling around the new Champion Hill playing back in ILS but I want Dulwich Hamlet to play at the highest possible level.

 

[B.I.G]

In case you haven’t noticed there has been a pandemic with games played behind closed doors & next to no income from supporters either via admission or bars. Yet players and staff still had to be paid & bills had to paid. That money still has to be recouped as the club goes forward. No matter our feelings as supporters about the National League, feelings shared by the directors by the way, if the club is to progress to & compete at the next level then income streams must be improved. The top division of the National League will probably double maybe even treble the budget factoring in travelling & player wages. Suppose some would be happy to have a couple of hundred fans rattling around the new Champion Hill playing back in ILS but I want Dulwich Hamlet to play at the highest possible level.

You want Dulwich to play at the highest level? So how do you feel about the number of seats in the new ground?

 

[Paula_G]

You want Dulwich to play at the highest level? So how do you feel about the number of seats in the new ground?

The highest POSSIBLE level… As a percentage of capacity it is pretty much the same as the current ground c. 16%…

 

[B.I.G]

The highest POSSIBLE level… As a percentage of capacity it is pretty much the same as the current ground c. 16%…

So the National League South then. But I agree the cost of playing at this level will probably double or treble under the current manager.

 

[Paula_G]

Apparently you shouldn’t be asking this on here but instead at the AGM. But if anyone knows the answer maybe it won’t get lost in the middle of the thread.

Not lost but am curious as to why when the opportunities are there to raise these concerns with the directors of the club?

 

[Paula_G]

So the National League South then. But I agree the cost of playing at this level will probably double or treble under the current manager.

Try read the words I actually wrote:

The top division of the National League will probably double maybe even treble the budget factoring in travelling & player wages.

 

[B.I.G]

Try read the words I actually wrote:

I saw. It will double just to stay in the same division.

 

[Paula_G]

I saw. It will double just to stay in the same division.

Based on what actual evidence?

 

[B.I.G]

Based on what actual evidence?

Inflation? but no actual evidence.

 

[Paula_G]

Inflation? but no actual evidence.

I know the economy is likely to take a hit because of the pandemic but somehow doubt that 100% hyperinflation will take hold of the U.K. even with the current administration. The only places I’ve been aware of that level was in Iran when a meal in Tehran went from around 200000 rials at the start of my trip there to 2 million at the end of the fortnight, Serbia / Former Yugoslavia where one could buy 500 billion dinar notes from street vendors as souvenirs… Add to that Zimbabwe & interwar Weimar Republic Germany neither of which I have experience of…

 

[scousedom]

Gavin brought the ASPIRE Academy with him from Beckenham Town, Dulwich had a stand-alone youth team prior that which had one of the best runs in the FA Youth Cup reaching the last 16. The ASPIRE Academy has grown since Gavin & Junior brought them here to cover a range of ages covering male & female football from the original under 18s squad.

So when that happened what happened to the Aspire players? Did they stay with Beckenham or did they move with the academy? If they moved with, did Dulwich pay Beckenham compensation/ transfer fees for those players? And is that a precedent to what would happen were Gavin to move from Dulwich?
To take a very unlikely example, say the next Class of 92 were in Aspire: could another club just get them by employing Gavin and him bringing Aspire with him leaving Dulwich with no academy and no compensation?