Dragon Age Inquisition

[Vintage Paw]

The next game in BioWare's Dragon Age series is due to be released in Autumn 2014.

http://www.dragonage.com/

It just premiered its first trailer at E3, and I'm already excited. Seemingly learning from many of the criticisms people made of DA2, they have said they are taking their time to make this, to ensure it's deep, complex and polished. It will be a "vast open world" experience, where your "choices are reflected" in the world.

Trailer @ Kotaku.

Even though she was speaking throughout, I totally didn't realise who it was at the end until I saw her..... ermahgerd.

 

[Vintage Paw]

http://www.destructoid.com/morrigan-returns-in-dragon-age-inquisition-255894.phtml

Varric <3

Edit: How the chuffing hell do you resize the pictures? Sorry they are so big.

 

[Stigmata]

I played the first one, which was ok rather than great. I heard part 2 was a bit limited. They need to make the setting a bit more interesting.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

I really liked 1 even if i didn't finish it.

2 didn't feel anywhere near as good as 1. the controls weren't as good with no proper top down style stuff. the setting was limited and the plot kinda disjointed.

I'm hopeful for number 3

 

[Cid]

Bioware, EA, hope.

 

[Epona]

Loved part one, part two was ok but not great (I didn't have the same hate for it that some people did and I did get some enjoyment out of it), part 3 can get fucked if it's only going to be on Origin.

I like Steam, release stuff on Steam or fuck off. I'm not installing another client onto my PC and remembering another set of passwords for the sake of one game when everything else I have bought is on Steam.

ETA: At least it looks a bit prettier than the last installment.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Loved part one, part two was ok but not great (I didn't have the same hate for it that some people did and I did get some enjoyment out of it), part 3 can get fucked if it's only going to be on Origin.

I like Steam, release stuff on Steam or fuck off. I'm not installing another client onto my PC and remembering another set of passwords for the sake of one game when everything else I have bought is on Steam.

ETA: At least it looks a bit prettier than the last installment.

This is why my ME3 copy is an evaluation copy.

 

[Epona]

This is why my ME3 copy is an evaluation copy.

What do you think about EA saying that they will only concentrate on a couple of big money games aimed at the mass market in the next cycle of development, rather than 12 or so games for different audiences?

I read that and just massively facepalmed on their behalf. And on our behalf too

 

[Stigmata]

I have the feeling i'll end up saving my gold coins for Project:Eternity and Tides of Numenera instead.

 

[Vintage Paw]

What do you think about EA saying that they will only concentrate on a couple of big money games aimed at the mass market in the next cycle of development, rather than 12 or so games for different audiences?

I read that and just massively facepalmed on their behalf. And on our behalf too

I'm not surprised, honestly. They stated a while ago (or someone in their employ did) that they just don't commission or green light new titles or take a risk anymore, because they have more of a guaranteed profit from sequels, dlc, the top handful of games that have already done well, amassed a following and will continue to sell well if you just throw a sequential number after the title. It's deeply depressing, because while there is a lot of talent and some great things coming out of indie gaming, there's also a great deal of talent and possibility under the umbrella of the big publishers, and all that talent and know-how is pretty much going to waste on churning out another same-old same-old. That's not to say fps #342 can't be a great game, just that it cannot be healthy for the industry to have more of the exact thing time and time again. The innovation seems to be completely restricted to how far they can push and improve the things they already do with new technology, as opposed to what new things they can do with creativity and storytelling and types of gameplay. I'd argue it needs both approaches, but the first guarantees that profit, the second is risky. They are spending more and more on game development now that they need to ensure they sell a certain amount. But pushing that technology further and further to the exclusion of all else in the hope of selling more games because there's more shiny makes production more expensive, so they are building their own prison. They've lost all idea of balance, their idea of expanding the market is having CoD players buying console games and having everyone else buy phone and tablet games. Even plants and freaking zombies is a shooter now. Shooters can be great fun, but when it's your entire business model (well, that or sports) it isn't healthy.

 

[golightly]

But pushing that technology further and further to the exclusion of all else in the hope of selling more games because there's more shiny makes production more expensive, so they are building their own prison.

There seems to be a parallel to this thread in Film and TV. Also, it seems that the big game companies are tied in with the hardware developers, so you can't get a shiney new game without shiney new hardware.

 

[Epona]

This isn't in any way related to Dragon Age or Bioware or EA. But just on the subject of developer fails, has anyone seen that Planetary Annihilation is being sold in a pre-Alpha state on Steam for nearly £70? Yeah seriously, pay £30 more than the retail price and essentially pay them whilst you test an early alpha version of their game. It's not even in Beta yet! Apparently they have based their pricing on the fact that lots of people pledged money on kickstarter for early access, therefore they should 'offer' the same on Steam.

No. Just No. Kickstarter is a funding site, Steam is a retail site. If a few people pledge £10k to help get your game developed on Kickstarter, it does not mean that the appropriate retail price for buying the game ought to be £10k.

Steam forums have erupted over this, and it just goes to show that indie developers can be just as downright fucking stupid as big publishers. This doesn't let EA off the hook mind you, but it does make me worry even more about the future of gaming if kickstarter projects are forcing the retail price up!

Fucking pillocks.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

i purchased kerbal space program as an early access game because i love the idea

i don't really play it but i love the idea and want to see the game do well

it cost about £12


you know i can kinda see why they have this price. it would annoy the fuck out of KS backers if they allowed new peeps to get what is essentially a KS reward tier for cheap.
seeing that the KS period is now over they don't want to deny a possible audience. each new steam buyer is more money in the pot to improve.

they are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Epona]

i purchased kerbal space program as an early access game because i love the idea

i don't really play it but i love the idea and want to see the game do well

it cost about £12


you know i can kinda see why they have this price. it would annoy the fuck out of KS backers if they allowed new peeps to get what is essentially a KS reward tier for cheap.
seeing that the KS period is now over they don't want to deny a possible audience. each new steam buyer is more money in the pot to improve.

they are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place.

No, now the Kickstarter is over, they don't want to deny anyone the opportunity of giving them that much money. But they are making a shit sales pitch for it by doing it on Steam, which is a retail site - it's garnering hate for the game and the developer.

A different way of doing it is with games in development like Dead State where they got money on Kickstarter (it only went on Kickstarter when it had already been in development for 3 or so years!), now they have a Paypal account for people who want to provide funding for the game. I doubt it will be 'offered' on Steam at 3 times the retail price for the dubious honour of beta-testing it. Or Age of Decadence, which also has Kickstarter funding, but which I have already beta-tested as part of public beta-testing without having to pay for that dubious privilege (I have no money to fund anything).

Since when did it become OK to charge people to test a game for you?

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

yeah i get it. i can see this as something they advertise on their site at actually slightly above KS prices.

The thing is KS made alpha access a money spinner. i do have mixed feelings about that. geting an alpha copy is a double edged sword. you don't want people bitching about an unfinished product so you want only team members or die hard fans talking about it.

giving backers alpha access is one thing. selling alpha access is another.


with things liks kerbal space program they have a niche gam which is constantly updated and this new steam thing makes sense for them

i think this new thiung by steam only works for a tiny number of games

 

[Epona]

You know what, I'm dubious about pre-ordering a finished game, let alone an unfinished one. If I had loads of cash, I would rather donate on kickstarter for a game in development than buy an unfinished game on Steam.

I will happily test games, and I'm good at trying to break things and then reporting exactly how I broke it. That was my job working with Oracle databases, back in the day. But fuck me I'm not going to pay extra for the privilege. If I were to pay £60/100/1000/10000 on Kickstarter, that is to help them develop the game, not because I think that is how the game should be priced! And I recognise it a donation, if anyone doesn't understand kickstarter and donates £100 and then is pissed off that the game retails at £30, that is their fucking problem.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

yeah

it kinda works with KBS because it's more of a sim. each itteration just adds more depth and fetures but the first version was a full game.


the price point is another matter,


with a game under £15 you can buy low and appreciate the upgrades. for a £40 game the expectation is diffrent

 

[Epona]

I have to really think hard before spending £40 on a game - that's a weeks worth of food budget for the two of us, so I find myself far more inclined to look at Steam sales and cheaper indie games these days. I do buy the occasional game at top whack when they are released but they have to be something I am really interested in.

No way am I paying that much for a game still in alpha, because the devs thought that was the right price to charge people to test a game for them! It's just a bad way of running business.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

there has been a revolution


i would never pay a publisher for an unfinished game

howerer


i think the relationship between developer and gamer is different

in the case of some peeops like double fine this is an intresting symbitic relationship

but the diffrence between symbiote and parasite is fine

 

[Epona]

I have to think very hard about any relationship that involves money going from my pocket into someone else's.

Deciding that I have some cash to fund a kickstarter project is one thing, seeing an unfinished alpha-build on a retail site like Steam at 3x the cost of most games I buy there is massively taking the piss.

Didn't they already double their Kickstarter target? They are just being moneygrabbing gits at this point, no better than any of the major publishers we hoped this process might circumvent.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

it's difficult. my judgement does err on the money grubbing side in this case but i do feel enought sympathy to understand why they got to this point.




the diffrence between alpha beta and basic release with expiations becomes blurred

 

[Epona]

it's difficult. my judgement does err on the money grubbing side in this case but i do feel enought sympathy to understand why they got to this point.




the diffrence between alpha beta and basic release with expiations becomes blurred

It's fairly simple for me - there is no fucking way on this earth that I am paying £70 for a game still in alpha and the chances of me buying even a finished game at that price is pretty much zero- do you know how much food I can buy with that money? What they want is ridiculous. I do occasionally buy a game for £30 or £40, but that's the exception (usually a birthday present or similar) rather than the norm.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

have you seen the star trek online legacy pack?

 

[Epona]

I dunno Shippy - Some bundle of games came up on Steam the other day that was £120 on special offer and it didn't take me more than a couple of seconds to decide that it was more important for me to make my mortgage payment this month. I tend to look out for games that are a tenner or less.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

it's a flash back to their life time subscribers pack wgen they wwere a subscription mmo

 

[Chick Webb]

I'm very excited for DA3. I really liked 2, despite being able to see exactly why people would have a problem with it (annoying Hawke, limited locations). I enjoyed all the characters, and the magey stuff, and the Qunari (phwoah). 1 is certainly a more immersive sort of game, with better replay value. I've been replaying it all morning as a really rude female elf. Telling priests where they can shove their "human nonsense" never gets old. The Dragon Age games are the only games I've really loved in years. I wish 3 was coming out sooner, but I suppose if they make a good job of it, the wait will be worth it.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I'm very excited for DA3. I really liked 2, despite being able to see exactly why people would have a problem with it (annoying Hawke, limited locations). I enjoyed all the characters, and the magey stuff, and the Qunari (phwoah). 1 is certainly a more immersive sort of game, with better replay value. I've been replaying it all morning as a really rude female elf. Telling priests where they can shove their "human nonsense" never gets old. The Dragon Age games are the only games I've really loved in years. I wish 3 was coming out sooner, but I suppose if they make a good job of it, the wait will be worth it.

Agree with you on all of that, really. Origins wasn't the most polished game ever, and it had its annoying moments as well (*hugs the 'skip the fade' mod* *spits at the deep roads*), but the story was really great. The part leading up to and including the Landsmeet was some of the best video game writing I'd experienced at that point. I love the lore of the DA universe, and have my own utterly convoluted ideas about what's going on, where I'd like to see it go, how I'd like to see certain characters developed, etc. And the theories about Flemeth, of course. And Sandal!

I enjoyed 2 as well, again like you despite acknowledging the flaws, because it certainly had them. I still loved playing it though, and still do.

I really do trust them to do their very best to make Inquisition the greatest game it can be. Their passion is certainly there. I used to spend far too much time on their forums, and the DA team always engaged with the fans to a far, far greater degree than the ME team ever did. They just kind of... get it. But then, that's sort of true about all of them at BioWare, a few notable exceptions of course.

I'd love to have the game right now this minute, but I'm actually really happy they are leaving it that long - all the more time to get it right.

 

[Epona]

I'd love to have the game right now this minute, but I'm actually really happy they are leaving it that long - all the more time to get it right.

It is encouraging that they have not released it in haste and are taking more time over it - honestly I feel the main flaws with DA2 (I didn't hate it either, it just wasn't as good as I hoped it would be after Origins, 6/10 from me is a solid score - enjoyable but not exceptional) were that in a lot of ways it felt rushed with the reused maps and kind of bland environments with little attention to detailing, unimportant filler NPCs having shockingly lo-res faces, and the fact that it ended more or less the exact same way regardless of which side you took - that sort of thing. All things that I am sure would not have been an issue had EA given Bioware more time to produce a polished game, rather than having them push out a sequel asap.

 

[8ball]

So VP - as out resident RPGer-in-chief - are those Dragon Origin games on the PS3 worth a pop, speaking from a 'really liked Skyrim' angle?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's fairly simple for me - there is no fucking way on this earth that I am paying £70 for a game still in alpha and the chances of me buying even a finished game at that price is pretty much zero- do you know how much food I can buy with that money? What they want is ridiculous. I do occasionally buy a game for £30 or £40, but that's the exception (usually a birthday present or similar) rather than the norm.

I've completely given up on paying for games in alpha now. I've done it a few times and all I've ended up with is an endlessly and irregularly updated app, of which I thought originally "this is a good idea I'll put some money in to fund that". Project Zomboid, UTO, all the ones that have been in Humble Bundles... no. No more. Not doing that shit any more. If I pay money for something it needs to fucking work right there and then.