Dissertation setback

[jasoon]

My dissertation has had a setback, and just wondered what others think I should suggest as course of action if the machine doesnt get fixed...
Basically Ive spend 4 weeks making this chemical thing, which I was planning to test over 1-2 weeks. In the first week it was fine, but the machine has now broke, so no testing=no data, and I have 1 or 2 bits of data of very very little (ie no) value currently.
My tutor seems very relaxed, and a bit too care-free, and contacted the manufacturers and was like, he didnt know when it would get sorted, maybe a week, maybe 2 And told me to wrote up what I can without the data.
I informed my head of year about this, and she said she'll discuss it with my tutor, as an extension that eats into revision easter break (which starts at the start of april) is not the best idea, and that there may be other options.
If the machine gets fixed my this Monday, then Im fine and havent set a major setback, IF its the monday after (ie 2weeks off), then im kind of pushed and it will be a rush, but I may be able to manage it. If its any longer, then forget it, its impossible.
Some people suggested my tutor provide me with data but a} that may affect my 'experimenting' marks, even though is not my fault b} i dont think there is any, if little, data availale if the thing im researching.
And thers no way they'd make me start a project from scratch.
Howver, a couple of people are doinf similar expts, in that it involves different chemicals etc, but the sam science, perhaps the tutor could give me their data (this problem also affects one of those students who hasnt finished).
Obviously, this may all be irrelevant as the problem can be fixed in a couple of weeks, or even a week, but these manufacturers probably hav bettre things to do, so if it isnt fixed...?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

When you actually write your dissertation, try and pay more attention to spelling and paragraphing.

 

[jasoon]

Why is that? Are you referring, quite comically to the SPAG in the above post, bevause I wrote it in a rush.

 

[J77]

When you actually write your dissertation, try and pay more attention to spelling and paragraphing.

Get out of bed the wrong side?

OP: I'd suggest that you write up a long introduction in the style of a review, that is, include all previous references to the work you're involved in, with in-depth discussion into what has been done already.

Then write up any theoretical work which has been done. Assuming it's not a PhD, this work can be copied from others. As long as you reference the source.

Hopefully, after you have done this, your machine will be fixed and you can write up the experimental part.

Don't worry, experiments always go wrong, and a 4 week build followed by 2 weeks experiment seems rather short for any concrete results.

(Also, write up a section on your experimental apparatus - this requires no results.)

 

[jasoon]

My tutor has emailed me to say it wil take a minimum of 2wks, therefore, no more results can be taken. (I had to email head of yr, who then spoke to him, I guess he probably would have just sat there twiddling his thumbs for 2wks if head of yr didnt contact him )
So I have to see him, fuck knows what now. If the dissertation turns out to be a 'review' because obviously it cant really be 'experimental' now, then that would be unfair, because those people doing reviews have had morw time for literature searches. And if it tunrs out that I am given the results, then he will always have in the back of his mind that these results are not mine, possibly resulting in negative marking.
fucking great,always fucking happens to me

 

[laptop]

If the dissertation turns out to be a 'review' because obviously it cant really be 'experimental' now...

Can't you get an extension?

Book face-to-face meeting to discuss with tutor. Now.

If they'll basically guarantee that the machine will be fixed in time for you to get some data before the (revised) deadline, then you can set out now writing up methods and motivation and sorting out the references. You can even draft the results section with "[was/was not] significant" (delete as applicable)

Will there be competition for use of the fixed machine? Can your tutor guarantee you time on it? Then it is all an exercise in deadline-juggling in co-operation with them...

If not, you need to discuss re-shaping it.

 

[jasoon]

Booked to see tutor tomorow. In the mail he said machine will take a minimum of 2wks, and most probably longer, therefore no data can be collected.

Theres 3 of us doing the expt, the other 2 ppl are doing a different thing to me (but with the SAME science and SAME machine. 1 of them has got excellent results and completed the expt, the other was in the process of collecting results like me. Its easier for the other person because I envisage the tutor telling the person to use the oher students' results because theyre doing the same thing).

So thats no more experimentation for me. I cant see him really digging up results for me because Im doing fairly new, innovative stuff. (whereas, theyre continuing the tutors past research and following a specific method, and I had to make my own methodology up).
So he'll either turn my project into a literature review (with my added tiny bit of virtually useless data that ive collected so far). Which aint good because my project will switch from an expt to a lit. review, ie become something different, and those doing a lit. review will have had more time, etc.
OR, he'll give me results that the other person has collected. Which is good because I can analyse something, but bad because I have to read up/catch up and waste time by figuring out what theyve done and collected, and what their data means.

Deadline is 31/03, ie 6 weeks, and I have to hand in a first draft whenever I can.

I dont really want to extend my deadline beauause hols start from start of april, and theyre only 3 weeks, and that is hardcore rev. time, and I dont want this hanging over my head. Simply, I wont have time to do project AND revise these final yr exams.

UNLESS, they can allow me to finish my exams (Im guessing start/mid-May, and THEN have my project extension). But this has to take into account that it may be unfeasible if graduation is mid July.
Having said that, an extension may not be even granted somehow, as Ive only been out of project action a week.

Dont know whats best- using others' results and catching up on the sceince of it, or having a lit review and trawling through hundreds of articles and catching up that way.

 

[hattie]

It sounds like if you want to do yourself and your dissertation justice you need to get your own results – so why not suggest to your tutor that you should wait until after your exams and do the experiments then. As Laptop says there should be plenty that you can write up already (especially if you have developed your own methodology etc). This can form a draught report to hand in to your tutor by the current deadline, and then the results and analysis will slot in later.

Its not your fault that the machinery is broken, but I suppose tutors might be lazy at finding a creative, fair way to solve your problem. So maybe you should go to the meeting tomorrow having done their thinking for them and propose that the solution is that you do a draught report now, with the experimental results etc added after your exams.

Or arrange to visit another college with a working machine – like an exchange student.

 

[equationgirl]

Ok, for a start I'm assuming this is your final year dissertation and would count quite highly. It is extremely unethical regardless of the circumstances to use someone else's results for your own work. This would count as plagarism and may jeapoardise your whole degree (and I bet your uni's got a policy on it).

Your immediate problem is a lack of data. One way round it, as others have suggested, is to try and get time on another machine nearby (although I don't know how feasible as an option this is). It may be that there is another machine in your uni (often departments aren't willing to share so get their own kit, might be worth a shot). Ask around. Another possibility may be to some molecular modelling or other computer based simulation work. This will still count as experimental data (my phd is completely simulation based). For example could you analyse the structure of your compound perhaps using mass spectrometry. Can you make any comments about the isomers (I vaguely remember something about compounds having the same structure but being different isomers - for example the thalidomide isomer is the dangerous one but if manufacturered correctly the isomer is the opposite one which is the good one).

You also mention that you had to come up with your own experimental methodology. That is also good new work - check in the literature for new methods in this area of research. How does your method differ from other methods commonly used? Why did you do it in a different way? What else have you tried? A negative result is just as valid as a positive one - it's important to know what doesn't work just as much as what does.

Don't worry about not having too much experimental data. You could frame your dissertation work as being a pilot or feasibility study which will be expected to have less data than a traditional experimental piece of work. You could, for example, frame your dissertation as a feasibility study of this new experimental methodology. Does your methodology work? How do your actual results differfrom your expected results? Do you know why (or can you make a guess as to why?)

Don't panic and give up just yet. You can do this

Part of doing research is being able to work out solutions to problems as much as doing the work. If research was easy and straightforward everyone would have a phd.

 

[jasoon]

Ok, for a start I'm assuming this is your final year dissertation and would count quite highly. It is extremely unethical regardless of the circumstances to use someone else's results for your own work. This would count as plagarism and may jeapoardise your whole degree (and I bet your uni's got a policy on it).
.

Hi, I dont mean copy it, I meant i'd use the results if the tutor gave it me (and I credit the other persons results)

 

[jasoon]

Your immediate problem is a lack of data. One way round it, as others have suggested, is to try and get time on another machine nearby (although I don't know how feasible as an option this is). It may be that there is another machine in your uni (often departments aren't willing to share so get their own kit, might be worth a shot). Ask around. Another possibility may be to some molecular modelling or other computer based simulation work. This will still count as experimental data (my phd is completely simulation based). For example could you analyse the structure of your compound perhaps using mass spectrometry. Can you make any comments about the isomers (I vaguely remember something about compounds having the same structure but being different isomers - for example the thalidomide isomer is the dangerous one but if manufacturered correctly the isomer is the opposite one which is the good one).

You also mention that you had to come up with your own experimental methodology. That is also good new work - check in the literature for new methods in this area of research. How does your method differ from other methods commonly used? Why did you do it in a different way? What else have you tried? A negative result is just as valid as a positive one - it's important to know what doesn't work just as much as what does.

Don't worry about not having too much experimental data. You could frame your dissertation work as being a pilot or feasibility study which will be expected to have less data than a traditional experimental piece of work. You could, for example, frame your dissertation as a feasibility study of this new experimental methodology. Does your methodology work? How do your actual results differfrom your expected results? Do you know why (or can you make a guess as to why?)

Don't panic and give up just yet. You can do this

Part of doing research is being able to work out solutions to problems as much as doing the work. If research was easy and straightforward everyone would have a phd.

Hi, I ll have the meeting tomorrow and see what he says, but I am upset because I was hoping to get 60-70% here as ive done shit in the other years and want a 2.1

tbh, I think this is the only machine in the whole uni, because he would have said otherwise.

I can suggest going to a nearby uni, and see what he says.

I cant really use what Ive got...Ive manufactured the compounds, yes, but the objective of my study was to analyse them, so what results I have got, are purely calibrative/baseline, in order to 'set' the machine up, ie completely useless (sorry for me negative, but its true!)..its like doing an acid and base reaction to produce salt and water..except having no acid to start with!

Regards to data modelling...you did mass spec..im doing summat similar But other ppl. doing I.T stuff say these things take as long as practical work, but again Ill suggest it.

Whether this turns into a lit. review or him giving me the other students data to work with, I just hope I dont get penalised/jeopardised for this, I was really really working for this and NEED to do well (it counts 33% of final year, and the final yr counts 60% of the whole thing)

 

[equationgirl]

I didn't do mass spec (but I have chemist mates that have, so have a smidgen of knowledge).

See how it goes in the meeting tomorrow, but unless it's all good news and you're happy you MAY want to consider putting things in writing to your head of department along the lines of failure to educate, not taking reasonable steps to make sure your work can be completed in a timely fashion and thus jeopardising your degree (especially as it's your final year dissertation) etc. The uni is more than happy to take fees for your degree - demand the service and contract fulfillment you are entitled too. Kick some butt

If you are given permission to use someone else's data, get it in writing that the student who did the work is happy for you to use their data, and get it in writing from your supervisor that you won't get penalised if you do. Include copies of the statements in your report - the last thing you want is to have an unhappy cross classmate making complaints because your supervisor ripped off their data without asking them -that WOULD affect your mark.

One other thing (bit of a longshot given the timescale but maybe worth a punt) - could you get your compound analysed by a commerical lab (at the department's expense)? If there is one locally (have a look in the yellow pages) they may even let you assist while they do they analysis - get your supervisor to phone them and find out.

Your main priority is to get the compound analysed after all, and a commerical lab may be able to assist with that.

Let me know how you get on.

 

[jasoon]

Had meeting with tutor and head of year today, and Im not filled with confidence afterwards...

Tutor: hadnt really thought anything through and just asked what I wanted to do. He's normally alright, but seemed to have given up and not bothered. Going to another uni: he said probably not possible, may have to pay etc. Him making up results for me to analyse: okay, but a 'pointless exercise'. Him giving me the other students results: no because its a different sort of pratical (in HIS opinion). Using another approach: which is very long winded and would basically mean starting again- ie, fuck that, I have 6 weeks to write it up and hand it in, and the science is different also. Completing it after the exams if the machine is fixed: yes, willing.

Head: had the nerve to fucking telling me that I should have done it earlier, fucking bitch. I start straight after exam and worked solid for 5 weeks the cow doesnt get it . Going to another uni: said was a possibility. Turning it into a 'review': no. Completing it after the exams if the machine is fixed: yes, as long as exams end by a certain date.

So the plan is: write up as much as I have (very little), graphs, the lot. IF the machine is fixed in the next 2.5weeks (very hit n miss), then yes I can continue and hit the dealine, though it would be a rush.

IF its not fixed by then (but fixed after exams are over) AND if the exams are over by a certain time in May 9we DONT know exam dates yet), then I can come in and work and get my results and it handed in in 2weeks (okay, but not th nicest way to celebrate the final year and my last 'big' holidays, and I dont know if I will a} be bothered after all that, b} get 'good' results anyway)

IF machine not fixed by then OR exams finish LATER than usual (we will hopefully know both these outcomes in the next few weeks), then we will do the 'pointless exercise' (his words, not mine, though the head liked the idea), of him literally making up results for me to analyse.

Obviusly as a matter of course, the head mentioned me attaching a note explaining the miss-hap, for when the externals come in. I was really hoping on pushing for a 2.1, it as always going to be an uphill struggle, and now the ball has been pushed that little bit further. I really do feel I will get indirectly penalised for this, and noen of them has made me confident afterwards.

Anway, thats how it looks, and I shall email them to confirm (if I can actually access my email!!)

 

[equationgirl]

Are you happy with this outcome?

Making up results would be extremely dubious in my opinion. It's not really the point of your dissertation. I don't know if your uni does interviews for borderline degree results, but what if you had one and you got asked about your data? Your external will go spare.

You may wish consider putting your dissatisfaction in writing to your head of department, stating that you find their approach to the problem and disinterest in helping you complete unacceptable, and that if the problem is not rectified to your satisafaction you will have no choice but to seek legal advice on the failure of the university to provide decent facilities iin a timely fashion in order for you to complete your degree work. Copy it to the university insurance officer - the merest hint of a potential lawsuit should have them putting pressure on your department to sort it out.

Try and push more for time on another uni's machine, bloody hell, tutor and HoD should have enough contacts to pull strings to get that done. It's not that hard. They're just being crap, and hoping to get away with it.
DON'T LET THEM!

 

[jasoon]

I emailed them both the timeplan I posted above, as agrred/discussed with them, also pointing out the possibility of using another uni's machine. The tutor apparently told the head that the uni in question (which is quite nearby, ie in the same city), usually comes over to use our uni's stuff. (I think this is a lie/exaggerated). The head did mention that if I went to another uni, they would hasve to get the results for me, ie the staff, due to legalities (fine by me!) Anway, ive not had replies back from either, so I assume theyre both happy with the time plan. I also stated clearly that I hope this would not and should not, personally jeopardise/penalise me in any way.

tbh, I didnt have much fun with the practical work, and would personally like to pack it in, but obviously Ive spent 5 weeks putting in the work, and I only need an extra week or so.

Just have to make do with what I have (quite a lot of work to be done), and in the meantime, wait and see when exams are/when the machine is back.

Re: the externals, it would be made clear which results are mine, and which results were computer generated and guesstimated by the tutor, and the external shouldnt have a problem with that because it would be clearly explained at the start, what went wrong with data collection.

Am I happy with it: at the moment not really as Ive not got anywhere near the results that I should have by today, but happy that Ive got time to get the write up done and not doing any practical work which was draining.

Never know, the machine might be back in a couple of weeks, and I can carry on, and by that time, i should have the majority of the write up completed, and I would just have to process, interpret and analyse the results as they come in.

I normally dont mind confrontation, but not with the guy thats marking my biggest piece of c/w! Nor with the head, whom Ive had troubles with not long ago (we wont get into that!)

 

[equationgirl]

Your dissertation should be being marked by more than one person, to eliminate accusations of personal bias etc by the student, so don't worry about that. I do understand that it's hard though - I find it incredibly difficult to talk to my supervisor sometimes (it doesn't help that he doesn't listen to what I tell him - for a recent job app. he was dying to be a referee, so I gave him the form and an envelope and told him to give it back to me so I could send it back with the rest of the application, and the blithering idiot told me he'd sent it to the place handling the applications (but he sent it to the wrong department)).

It's a good idea to get some writing underway now though, makes the whole thing seem less daunting. Getting started is the hardest thing, once that's done it gets easier. So long as you have a contingency plan (which you do) everything should be ok.

Well done for pushing them to get stuff sorted though, most undergraduates feel intimidated by staff and don't feel able to challenge their crapness.

 

[jasoon]

Yes, thanks for your advice. Yep, definitely not intimidated by authority, just like to explain things clearly to them and get them on board, so were viewing the picture from the same angle. Going to try and get a lot/most of the write up done this wk end (whihc is going to be difficult because it involves caluclations, graphs, and spreadsheets, which Im crap at, and which the tutor explained how to do quickly in about 5 minutes). Oh well, just have to wait and see about the rest. cheers

 

[equationgirl]

Don't worry about being crap with the graphs and spreadsheets stuff, there's plenty of people here on urban who can help with that. I can help you with excel stuff for example, and there's bound to be people who can help with other packages.

Just start at thread asking for help, and we'll all help out

 

[london manz]

LISTEN CAREFUL

The main bulk of a dissertation is usually the data collection and analysis, however when you have the data in front of you it is not too hard because most data analysis usually just involves stating the obvious conclusions.

There is nothing stopping you from completing a good literature review, methodology and introduction which makes about 50 percent of the word count in a dissertation.

Whilst you cant yet analyse your data dont sweat it because its a very straightforward area, providing you have a methodolgy and have prepared the ways in which you are to test and examine your data.

For now just focus on the chapters prior to data and conclusion and make sure they flow in succession and refer amongst one another because it is easy to write a good chapter but its worthless if you cant string them all together....

and just relax, you have plenty of time just cut down your social life temporarily

 

[jasoon]

Thanks, Ill be sure to make athread if I need help with the processing
Yep, defo have to concentrate on the prior data bits, esp the lit. review, which I kinda fucked up in my research proposal and got 35% in. Good thing is my tutor has given me a CD with all the relevant articles (but I was busy with other work and rev and ddint really concentrate it), so defo have to sort it out for the main rpoject which i can be getting on with (still not started anything yet mind)