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Diner opposite the Twin Towers

Favelado

Favelado

J'adore South Shore
Urban is very good at solving little mysteries and I wondered if anyone can help me with this one.

In August 2000 I visited the WTC. I think it's most likely that when I got off the subway I exited the station at a street level exit and then very soon after went into the nearest diner, which perhaps was as little as 30 or 60 seconds away. I can't be 100% sure though as I know there was a subterranean arcade and although I don't remember passing through ti first, it doesn't mean I didn't.

It seemed to be a relatively old school place. I had pancakes with sausages and maple syrup, the waiter I believe had a little paper hat on and I think the interior of the place was mostly white.

I think I then I just walked directly across the street into the square where the WTC was, although the more I look at videos, the more confused I get about which street I was on and which angle I entered the square from.

Now that that area of Manhattan is remodelled, I can't figure out which street it was from Maps either.

Does anyone remember such a diner and can anyone help me figure out where I was? - maybe by just asking me lots of yes/no deductive questions. Perhaps a pre 2001 Manhattan map of the area could help me to..

It's just become a little internal mystery and I'd love to know the name of the diner and be able to Google it. I always wondered if the waiter was okay on 9/11 and also a really rude woman (who I wished no ill!) who just worked as a lift/elevator attendant and didn't like it when I said hello to her.
 
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Not Katz's!

It was on the same street as the WTC. Directly opposite. I literally crossed the road from the diner and entered the WTC plaza. So that narrows it down to 4 streets and I think with some guidance I can figure out which one.
 
I'm looking on Google street view now and perhaps I was on Greenwich St as I can see the footprints of the towers there (i.e. the memorials).

The side of the street I was on is now just glass and steel skyscrapers and a bit lifeless - whereas I remember it was more shops and cafes and melée pre reconstruction.

The other possibilites are Fulton Street, West Street, and Liberty Street but it's hard to figure it all out because obviously the area is different.
 
Fez909 said:
Stage Door Deli?
Click to expand...

Not a bad shout. Old and new photos don't ring any bells but I'm still looking at them. It could be an unsolvable riddle but I'm grateful for anything that could jog my memory.

I wouldn't be surprised if it got permanently destroyed on 9/11.
 
Petee. I'm a bit sleepy so your post has gone over my head. What do you mean?

The diner i went to was directly across the road from the old WTC. There won't have been that many that fit the bill. I'm going to guess that somewhere between 2 and 8 could have fit the bill at the time.
 
Favelado said:
The diner i went to was directly across the road from the old WTC.
Click to expand...

but that covers alot of ground. across the road north, east, or south? (there was no room to the west then.) i was well familiar with the old WTC, as the NYS department of taxation was located there and i went to get forms (and ride the amazingly fast elevators). it was a time (the 90s) when this whopping modernist ... thing had been planted, but the old neighborhood of stationery stores, lofts with warehouses in them, and diners catering to stockbrokers or their secretaries or back-room traders, was still quite alive. there wasn't much to choose among them, is what i'm saying.

i haven't been in the area for years (all the tax stuff is on the web now) but you'd be hard pressed to find exactly the place you're speaking of, not least on account of the new street pattern.
 
petee said:
but that covers alot of ground. across the road north, east, or south? (there was no room to the west then.) i was well familiar with the old WTC, as the NYS department of taxation was located there and i went to get forms (and ride the amazingly fast elevators). it was a time (the 90s) when this whopping modernist ... thing had been planted, but the old neighborhood of stationery stores, lofts with warehouses in them, and diners catering to stockbrokers or their secretaries or back-room traders, was still quite alive. there wasn't much to choose among them, is what i'm saying.

i haven't been in the area for years (all the tax stuff is on the web now) but you'd be hard pressed to find exactly the place you're speaking of, not least on account of the new street pattern.
Click to expand...

This is useful - especially the thing about no room to the west. This is such a trivial thing - I'd just like to try and get to the bottom of it - but you are absolutely right that I might not. I think if I could find videos of people walking into the WTC plaza from different directions, there would be one that matched my memory of it, and then I'd know which side I came in from. i am doing research and maybe I will get there.

I don't think I can physically visit the place i went to - it's unlikely to be there - either closed down or destroyed. But I'd like to solve the riddle in my mind.
 
petee said:
but that covers alot of ground. across the road north, east, or south? (there was no room to the west then.) i was well familiar with the old WTC, as the NYS department of taxation was located there and i went to get forms (and ride the amazingly fast elevators). it was a time (the 90s) when this whopping modernist ... thing had been planted, but the old neighborhood of stationery stores, lofts with warehouses in them, and diners catering to stockbrokers or their secretaries or back-room traders, was still quite alive. there wasn't much to choose among them, is what i'm saying.

i haven't been in the area for years (all the tax stuff is on the web now) but you'd be hard pressed to find exactly the place you're speaking of, not least on account of the new street pattern.
Click to expand...

My mind boggled at the elevators.

I got in and a tired and grumpy lift attendant tutted and rolled her eyes when I said 'Hello' and smiled at her. I suppose she was just sick of being in there and sick of people. I've thought of her many times. I've wondered many times if she survived the following year and just this week I realised that the 9/11 attacks happened before the observatory opened in the morning. So if she still was an employee and it was her shift that day - hopefully she was okay and didn't get caught up in it. Hopefully.

After her greeting, the red LED went 10,20,30,40........ so quickly as we climbed and I remember my ears popped as they would on an aeroplane.
 
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Having looked at videos and images of the old WTC site, subway entrances, and mocked up footage of entrances to the WTC plaza, it seems about 80% likely that I was in Church Street and the diner was on Church Street itself in the area I've highlighted below.

Image.jpeg

So I need to try and find diners from the 90s-2000 in that section.

Any ideas?
 
Favelado said:
But a great idea and an avenue to investigate
Click to expand...

i checked the NYPL website and they have phone books from all over (including manhattan of course) but they aren't digitized and they are resticted circulation, for good reason.
 
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Lots of videos here of the World Trade Center and nearby streets pre-9/11 that might help

www.youtube.com

PRE-911 WTC

This channel is meant to preserve/document of what the Original World Trade Center complex was and not what it became. The Twin Towers deserve to be recognized as beautiful icons of America and not buildings that brought down by cowards. Any 9/11 content posted will not be common.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Yossarian said:
Lots of videos here of the World Trade Center and nearby streets pre-9/11 that might help

www.youtube.com

PRE-911 WTC

This channel is meant to preserve/document of what the Original World Trade Center complex was and not what it became. The Twin Towers deserve to be recognized as beautiful icons of America and not buildings that brought down by cowards. Any 9/11 content posted will not be common.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...
Will be studying closely
 
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