Did people really never see the colour blue until modern times?
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Bonfirelight
Crocodile
if blue is such a modern invention then how do they explain Miles Davis?
Gorm is also blue in Irish. Not green though, that's glas in Irish.
I remember being vaguely baffled to learn that a person who is black is called blue in Irish.
An fear gorm directly translates as a blue man but it means a black man.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
That's because if you said 'am fear dubh' which literally means 'the black man' you'd be talking about his hair, not his skin colour.
Yep, that certainly rings a dim and distant bell, now as you say it.
A bit like how a fox is an madra rua - a red dog.
maomao
普費斯
That means the cairngorms are the same word as qingshan which is quite cool.
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
The Danes were referred to as 'dubh' (black-haired or dark-haired) vs the Norwegians who were referred to as 'fionn' (fair-haired)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubgaill_and_Finngaill
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Sure, but this is what I was referring to:
http://www.aren.org/prison/documents/Asatru/black.pdf
http://www.aren.org/prison/documents/Asatru/black.pdf
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
ah! That's interesting
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
In Breton glas means the colour of the sea and applies to both green and blue.
Mumbles274
running from law and the press and the parents
kestrels see UV and can see the traces of urine left by rodents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kestrel
and mantis shrimps have such complex visual systems I couldn't even begin to explain!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_shrimp
Amazing stuff about feather colours and why we see blue feathers as blue
Just read it
Just read it
As one might expect from the amazing diversity of colors and patterns exhibited by more than 9,000 bird species found in the world, birds can see color. In fact, they can discriminate a greater variety of colors than humans; as some birds can see into the ultraviolet range.
The colors in the feathers of a bird are formed in two different ways, from either pigments or from light refraction caused by the structure of the feather.
In some cases feather colors are the result of a combination of pigment and structural colors. The greens of some parrots are the result of yellow pigments overlaying the blue-reflecting characteristic of the feathers.
Pigmentation
Pigments are colored substances that can be found in both plants and animals. The coloration created by pigments is independent of the structure of the feather. Pigment colorization in birds comes from three different groups: melanins, carotenoids, andporphyrines.
Melanins occur as tiny granules of color in both the skin and feathers of birds. Depending on their concentration and location, melanins can produce colors ranging from the darkest black to reddish browns and pale yellows.
Melanin provides more than just coloration. Feathers that contain melanin are stronger and more resistant to wear than feathers without melanin. Feathers without any pigmentation are the weakest of all. Many otherwise all white birds have black feathers on their wings or black wingtips. These flight feathers are the ones most subject to wear and tear. The melanin causing the tips to appear black also provides extra strength.
The red of the Northern Cardinal comes from a class of pigments called carotenoids. Carotenoids are produced by plants, and are acquired by eating plants or by eating something that has eaten a plant. Carotenoids are responsible for the bright yellows seen in goldfinches and Yellow Warblers as well as the brilliant orangish yellow of the male Blackburnian Warbler. Carotenoids can interact with melanins to produce colors like the olive-green of the female Scarlet Tanager.
Porphyrins, the third pigment group, are produced by modifying amino acids. Although the exact chemical structure of each porphyrin differs, they all share a common trait. They fluoresce a bright red when exposed to ultraviolet light, much the way certain rocks and minerals are known to do. Porphyrins produce a range of colors, including pink, browns, reds, and greens. Porphyrins are found in some owls, pigeons and gallinaceous species. They can also produce the brilliant greens and reds of turacos.
Color Abnormalities
When pigments are present (or absent) at unusual levels the appearance of a bird can change dramatically. These color abnormalities, while not common, do occur on a regular basis.
Structural Colors
Adding to the diversity of avian colors are colors produced by the structure of the feather. The best known example is the gorget (throat feathers) of many hummingbird species. The iridescent colors of the gorget are the result of the refraction of incident light caused by the microscopic structure of the feathers. The refraction works like a prism, splitting the light into rich, component colors. At certain angles little or no light is reflected back to the viewer and the gorget can appear black. As the viewing angle changes, the refracted light becomes visible in a glowing, shimmering iridescent display.
Many species of birds have feathers that exhibit iridescent colors, including the Purple Gallinule and Tricolored Heron pictured at the top of this page.
Not all structural colors are iridescent. Tiny air pockets in the barbs of feathers can scatter incoming light, resulting in a specific, non-iridescent color. Blue colors in feathers are almost always produced in this manner. Examples include the blue feathers of bluebirds, Indigo Buntings, Blue Jay's and Steller's Jays.
The blues seen in the feathers of these 3 species are structural colors. (Left to right: Indigo Bunting, Mountain Bluebird and Stellar's Jay)
If you find the feather of a Blue Jay or Steller's Jay you can see for yourself how this works. First, observe the feather in normal lighting conditions and you will see the expected blue color. Next, try back-lighting the feather. When light is transmitted through the feather it will look brown. The blues are lost because the light is no longer being reflected back and the brown shows up because of the melanin in the feathers.
Metal Malcolm
ODT resident emo
I assume it's similar to this optical illusion.
The grey squares A and B are the same shade, but because your brain processes the 'shadow', it alters the shade of grey that you see.
Well, he was only kind of blue...
i'm so so sorry
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
this reminded me of mantis shrimp, who see a whole spectrum of colors we don't see.
most people have probably heard of them and their exceptional eyes, but I sort of wonder if (to them) the plain looking ones are actually more amazingly colored than the rainbow ones?
most people have probably heard of them and their exceptional eyes, but I sort of wonder if (to them) the plain looking ones are actually more amazingly colored than the rainbow ones?
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
Glas is green? It means blue in Welsh, green is gwyrdd.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Bleen by now, surely?
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Drugs. Lots and lots of drugs.
mwgdrwg
Be a Pisces. Jam.
I didn't think you could, as I'd never heard it used like that. But after some discussion here, I recalled the word for grass is glaswellt. The blue blue grass of home, anyone? Also, I've heard the old Welsh word for green was "Glasto"!
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Cid
Proper break this time
Not quite sure how the translation works, but blue is emphasised when talking about the religion of Ghengis Khan; Tengri, the eternal blue heaven. The Khanate/Yuan dynasty is relatively recent in China's history I suppose.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yeah but a colour is a thing for descibing what things look like. So if it looks blue, then it's blue.
That cat looks alive, but if you grind it up into little bits you'll see it's actually dead.
Your house may look white, but if you burn it down you'll see it's actually black.
nice - and there are so many similarities between Scots and Irish Gaelic, but in Ireland we differentiate, gorm is blue (also 'black skinned', for example, 'fear goirme' is 'black man') and we always say 'glas' for green.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Yep, hence that weird camo pattern with bright orange bits. So other hunters can see you but the deer can't, and if you get shot you'll know it was on purpose.
[linking across to another post I made in other thread that is related to this because hopefully the recommendation is worthwhile - the important point being that it's more a question of to what degree does language literally mediate perception rather than language mediating colour alone...]
Did you happen to read this brilliant book about language and colour/perception by any chance:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Language-Glass-Different-Languages/dp/0099505576
It covers off the "blue" issue, with particular regard to Gladstone's theories about Homer and the absence of descriptions of blue in Classical Greek texts (where Homer systemically describes the sea as being wine-dark), essentially explaining that cultures perceive and then name colours as they develop in light of their circumstances and needs, with blue being one of the most advanced, and therefore least universally necessary colours, in the spectrum, which rather raises the tantalising prospect that there are many more colours that we are not "seeing" out there right now because our brains have not named them yet.
It also raises the question of whether different cultures with different linguistic traditions fundamentally see the world in different ways. For instance, there's lots of interesting stuff about remote tribes, such as one in Mexico that has no sense of the cardinal points (North, East, South, West) and instead use ideas of uphill, downhill, and, IIRC traversing one way and then the other for orientation because they live on a particular mountain, which raises an interesting idea about what happens when members of the tribe relocate. There's also a description of another Amazonian tribe who have a ridiculous number of verb tenses that are dependent on things like specific units of time and distance.
Did you happen to read this brilliant book about language and colour/perception by any chance:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-Language-Glass-Different-Languages/dp/0099505576
It covers off the "blue" issue, with particular regard to Gladstone's theories about Homer and the absence of descriptions of blue in Classical Greek texts (where Homer systemically describes the sea as being wine-dark), essentially explaining that cultures perceive and then name colours as they develop in light of their circumstances and needs, with blue being one of the most advanced, and therefore least universally necessary colours, in the spectrum, which rather raises the tantalising prospect that there are many more colours that we are not "seeing" out there right now because our brains have not named them yet.
It also raises the question of whether different cultures with different linguistic traditions fundamentally see the world in different ways. For instance, there's lots of interesting stuff about remote tribes, such as one in Mexico that has no sense of the cardinal points (North, East, South, West) and instead use ideas of uphill, downhill, and, IIRC traversing one way and then the other for orientation because they live on a particular mountain, which raises an interesting idea about what happens when members of the tribe relocate. There's also a description of another Amazonian tribe who have a ridiculous number of verb tenses that are dependent on things like specific units of time and distance.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Fair enough, I think you're right. Still interesting how they do it, though.
andysays
Love and solidarity
There has been such a load of nonsense spouted on this thread that I thought I would leave it until it had stopped before making my contribution. The colour blue has been with us for centuries and was called indigo. It is a dyestuff that was traded throughout the ancient world although I think it originated in India. Ancient Japan Egypt, Greece all used indigo to dye cotton and other textiles which they obtained by trading with India. Indigo is made from a plant. The colour is expensive and considered a luxury. Similarly Woad was a plant based dye used by the people of what is now Britain.
As mentioned in an earlier post Lapis Lazuli was a rare and expensive pigment used in painting. It was the colour used to represent the blue robes of the Virgin Mary in religious paintings and was more expensive than gold. It comes from Afganistan which I understand is the only place in the world where it can be found. So blue has a long history even if it does not appear as such word in literature.
As mentioned in an earlier post Lapis Lazuli was a rare and expensive pigment used in painting. It was the colour used to represent the blue robes of the Virgin Mary in religious paintings and was more expensive than gold. It comes from Afganistan which I understand is the only place in the world where it can be found. So blue has a long history even if it does not appear as such word in literature.
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