Cycling in Holland...how it should be in the UK
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gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I've been cycling for decades and I totally lack that sense of balance.
I think that's one of Markenlei's videos - here's his channel :-
https://www.youtube.com/user/markenlei/videos
I think that's one of Markenlei's videos - here's his channel :-
https://www.youtube.com/user/markenlei/videos
I think that sums up the more relaxed attitude to cycling - no lycra, no helmets, no flash bikes and no racing about.
Here people who cycle are 'into cycling' and so take it a bit too seriously.
Of course two important differences are the terrain and segregated cycle infrastructure. None of the stuff in that video is going to happen if you've got a hill on your commute or a bus up your backside!
Here people who cycle are 'into cycling' and so take it a bit too seriously.
Of course two important differences are the terrain and segregated cycle infrastructure. None of the stuff in that video is going to happen if you've got a hill on your commute or a bus up your backside!
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I do find them a bit fast and close though - but perhaps it's because I'm used to British cyclists with dodgy attitudes.
There's a reason people who are going to be on a bike for a long time wear lycra....or at least some kind of cycling-specific clothes. They're more comfortable and practical for cycling than normal clothes.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
Some more Dutch cycling.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Nonsense unless you want to go fast. Lycra is a performance material. Normal clothes are more practical than lycra for everyday cycling because you don't have to carry a change of clothes around for when you get to work, shops, friends, wherever.
Geography is a red herring too, places like kiel (iirc) in Germany are very hilly but have good infra and high rates of cycling participation. I can't watch the vid in the op atm though. Bristol is very hilly too and has >10% share iirc with little infra in place, would be much higher if there was infra.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
That's my take too.
I'm lucky in that my employer has a relaxed dress code.
I'm lucky in that although I almost always work up a sweat, all I need is a clean tee shirt.
I've learned that most of the year I don't need waterproof leggings for a sprinkle when the journey is only half an hour and worst case I always keep spare trousers at work. I put on the rubber trousers only a handful of times a year and often regret doing so.
On camping trips in mid summer, I've encountered no problems simply allowing myself to get soaked and then dry out.
The only time my layers of cotton let me down is if I go for a 20 mile ride on a winter's day - when hypothermia can get a grip if I don't brave the cold, strip off and put on a dry tee shirt - so I repeatedly consider getting a base layer.
That said, when it's really cold on my commute, I'm glad that I have a pretty well unbustable bike so I haven't had to stop for repairs more than once every few years.
If I didn't live in the mild south west, I would probably have to rethink my strategy.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Base layers are great if you're cycling distance/speed for wicking sweat away, doesn't need to be lycra though, sports top does just as well, I guess there's aerodynamic advantages to lycra tops if you're pushing at the margins.
It's not "nonsense". For a start cycling shorts have a padded insert, which you really need if you're going to be on a bike for a long time. They will also let your legs move more freely than normal trousers will. And clothes designed for cycling will wick sweat away and not leave you in a cold damp mess like cotton will.
fredfelt
Mostly unknown member
You have a point though. It seems that people can have an aversion to activities requiring specialist clothing. Cycling as part of getting around on a day to day basis is a thoroughly normal activity in plenty of countries. People don't need to bother with lycra or helmets as this detracts from the utility of cycling, and is not necessary when you can take it easy on proper cycle paths.
Due to hostile roads in the UK it's less of a 'normal' activity and is often a sporting activity - hence it's association with lycra and a sporty pastime, rather than a regular day to day activity.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
It is nonsense though Bungle, I can happily cycle 10 miles wearing jeans, I won't sweat at all as I plod along at a sedate pace, using the bike as a way to get from A to B, no need for specialist clothing at all.
I loved cycling in Holland when i lived there. No helmet no racing normal clothes. Own traffic lights. Cars always give way. Never horn you even you are in their way .
I even saw people cycling together holding hands, mothers with newborns on the back.
Cycling there is like walking. A total norm.
I even saw people cycling together holding hands, mothers with newborns on the back.
Cycling there is like walking. A total norm.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Everyone must see the *shit forgotten the name of it* vid - it's basically a (short) showing of various cyclists round the world, and highlighted about it's a rare UK/US thing where we're the only countries to get 'dressed' for cycling and see it as sport or something that needs to be done quickly. For the rest of the world it's just a means of getting from A to B.
That's all true, but I'm hardly going to kit myself up in dayglo lycra just to cycle a couple of miles to work, am I? Point is, cycling shouldn't have to be something you need to take very seriously - just a handy, cheap and pollution-free means of getting about in town.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
It depends how far you have to travel, my commute is nine miles with quite a bit of climbing and I want it over with fast. Doing it in appropriate clothing makes it easier and more comfortable. I don't need a gym membership or any of that nonsense, and would have had a shower in the morning anyway, I just do it at the other end of my journey and my employer pays for the hot water! Cheaper than the bus too, even with maintenance & clothing costs.
It should be possible for cycling to be a 'normal' activity like in Holland and I'm very supportive of getting good infrastructure here, it's just there is no serious political will, drivers cannot be inconvenienced. The schemes we do get often remove priorities that you would otherwise have, we're getting a thirty million quid scheme here in Leeds yet you're still expected to stop and press a button at some side roads. It's bullshit.
It should be possible for cycling to be a 'normal' activity like in Holland and I'm very supportive of getting good infrastructure here, it's just there is no serious political will, drivers cannot be inconvenienced. The schemes we do get often remove priorities that you would otherwise have, we're getting a thirty million quid scheme here in Leeds yet you're still expected to stop and press a button at some side roads. It's bullshit.
You really bought into all this haven't you?
Unless you're doing the tour de France or racing why the fuck bother?
It's like buying a racing car and wearing a helmet for your commute to work.......
I see too many pricks in all the lycra gear racing about like complete idiots, only for me to overtake them later on a hill, wearing my office attire a waterproof coat and not even breaking a sweat!
Must admit, when I commuted by bike (I don't now - bike storage is a problem and it's an easy walk anyway) I used to take a faintly malicious pleasure in buzzing along on my clapped out old bike in jeans and a T-shirt, overtaking all the serious cyclists as I went. Dogsauce is right, though: it does depend on how far you're going. For a couple of miles on the flat there's no need to bother with any special gear, but if you're doing several miles uphill and down dale then it's probably worth it.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Padded shorts are good for distance, but really legs move perfectly freely in normal trousers, the good thing about lycra in this context is it's not flappy so no chance of getting caught in chain, but chain guard, trouser clips or just tucking your trousers into your socks will do the job just fine.
Lycra is not the only material that wicks away sweat, any base layer will do this.
Thing about it all is that the video in the OP - which I've now been able to flick through - doesn't show speed or distance cycling, it shows people pootling around town - doing the kind of stuff I mentioned in my post, going to work, shops, friends. Even cycling 10-20miles you don't need to break into a sweat, and certainly not the kind of sweat that cotton can't deal with.
I'll remind you that in the post I replied to you said "for cycling" not "for cycling long distances" or "for cycling for a long time". The whole you must wear lycra to cycle stuff puts loads of people off cycling. I think it is nonsense that lycra is more practical "for cycling" than normal clothing - for cycling at speed, yes - as I said, and you are right about distance as well, if people are doing proper audaxes and that, but most people's cycling is going to be 5-10miles max, and lycra is not neccessary and is less practical than normal clothing because you have to carry the normal clothing around and have somewhere to get changed in at your destination. I find lycra uncomfortable as well and much prefer to use a standard sports top base layer when I'm exercising, along with tracksuit or cotton trousers or shorts depending on the weather.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
I have the luxury of being able to keep work clothes at work at this means lycra is by far the most practical option for commuting. After a ride like yesterday I arrived absolutely soaked (water had gone through Goretex shoes and Goretex socks) and I just changed into dry clothes.
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I also said "or at least some kind of cycling-specific clothes". Why are you fixated with lycra?
Why do you think places like Evans are chock full of cycling clothes? And it's not because all their customers see themselves as potential Tour de France entrants.
Umm.........
I also said "or at least some kind of cycling-specific clothes". Why are you fixated with lycra?
Why do you think places like Evans are chock full of cycling clothes? And it's not because all their customers see themselves as potential Tour de France entrants.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, apologies, I did misread that. Too many people are fixated with Lycra, it's an issue, as is just the general notion that cycling specific clothes are needed for cycling.
Lord Hugh
Multiply and
My rule is if I'm on the bike for less than 45 mins or an hour, I don't bother with the padded arse. After that, the rub of my (prolific) body hair does make it very uncomfortable.
It's the difference between commuting and sport/exercise, mostly. There is sadly an elitism that does go with it sometimes, that it's only "cycling" when you're speeding around on your millimeter thick bike on a hill so steep you're going backwards in clothes so tight that the only blood in your body is in your giant red head. But I think you get that in anything, and most cyclists even in their lycra are happy to see anyone else on a bike (I certainly am).
Cycling hand in hand is hard!! I've tried a couple of times, only managed a few seconds before we nearly crashed into each other.
It's the difference between commuting and sport/exercise, mostly. There is sadly an elitism that does go with it sometimes, that it's only "cycling" when you're speeding around on your millimeter thick bike on a hill so steep you're going backwards in clothes so tight that the only blood in your body is in your giant red head. But I think you get that in anything, and most cyclists even in their lycra are happy to see anyone else on a bike (I certainly am).
Cycling hand in hand is hard!! I've tried a couple of times, only managed a few seconds before we nearly crashed into each other.
hello! new poster 
my favourite (and only) piece of bicycling research was by a chap who rode around town with/out a helmet and wig, to see how it affected drivers' behaviour toward cyclists (it did, significantly).
so, even though i'm speaking as a fully paid up member of the campaign against middle aged men in lycra, I do think dressing up like Bradley whatsisiface nonetheless serves a useful purpose in communicating to other road users how you're likely to behave. which is a good or a bad thing, depending on how you see it.
personally I try to cultivate the most eccentricly visible presence I can (including lack of helmet and long flowing locks) to see me safely through my 12 miles a day of London rush hour traffic.
ETA oh, and someone had to be the first to say it: saddle sores :-\
my favourite (and only) piece of bicycling research was by a chap who rode around town with/out a helmet and wig, to see how it affected drivers' behaviour toward cyclists (it did, significantly).
so, even though i'm speaking as a fully paid up member of the campaign against middle aged men in lycra, I do think dressing up like Bradley whatsisiface nonetheless serves a useful purpose in communicating to other road users how you're likely to behave. which is a good or a bad thing, depending on how you see it.
personally I try to cultivate the most eccentricly visible presence I can (including lack of helmet and long flowing locks) to see me safely through my 12 miles a day of London rush hour traffic.
ETA oh, and someone had to be the first to say it: saddle sores :-\
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