Cycle route mapping - recommendations?

[DownwardDog]

I don't really get why these things are devices rather than apps. Everyone has a smartphone now... Surely just buying a handlebar mount would be cheaper.

Apart from the battery issue phones don't have ANT+ so you can't connect power meter, HRM, Di2, etc.

Also, another endorsement for the Wahoo Roam. They are way better than any Garmin. They also don't have Garmin's warranty policy which is basically: stick your broken computer as far up your arse as you can get it.

 

[Winot]

The older version is B&W but still has maps. Thats the new colour version. And yes, you can zoom in and out.

FWIW I think the B&W screen is better - less clutter somehow and it's easier to make things out with a quick glance at speed.

I've got the b+w one, and have never had any problems following the map

Thinking of getting one.

Q1: can you set a ‘via’ route, i.e. I want to go from A to C but via B?

Q2: can you map your own route before you ride e.g. on Google maps then upload it to the device?

Ta

 

[kropotkin]

Yes and yes
It integrates with every mapping tool: google maps, strava routes, komoot etc.

 

[Winot]

Cheers

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Thinking of getting one.

Q1: can you set a ‘via’ route, i.e. I want to go from A to C but via B?

Q2: can you map your own route before you ride e.g. on Google maps then upload it to the device?

Ta

You use your phone for route planning, on whatever app you fancy (well, I’m sure there might be some obscure thing that isn’t supported but all the major ones are fine), then synch the route to the unit.

 

[Cid]

Just to clarify with Wahoo they're all elemnts (why not just lmnt wahoo? or are you worried we'd confuse it with 'lament'?). The old one is just the elemnt, there's also an elemnt mini which I think is also now 'old'.

Current range is the Bolt and the Roam. Bolt is black and white, Roam is colour. Roam also has the added functionality that it has built in route planning, so you can change the route on the device itself rather than using your phone. I have a bolt, but tbh haven't really done much with the map functions yet... I'm interested to see how it copes when I have no reception.

Other brands are available of course... Many do rate the Garmins. But the thing for me with that is that almost every review also says that their reliance on touchscreen is a bit of a pain with gloves/rain. And, in case you hadn't notice, we ain't in California. Wahoo has zero touchscreen functionality, just buttons. Very easy to get your head around buttons.

 

[Winot]

Just ordered a Roam

 

[Cid]

Just ordered a Roam

Flash git...

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I've stopped using RideWithGPS now as you can't edit the route without paying. Or am I missing something with the web app?

MapMyRide seems to work OK so have switched to that. Found the editing on BikeMap.net got really clunky.

 

[Cid]

Using Komoot myself. I suspect Strava have timed their move of some features to premium poorly, given that other apps are really coming into their own (and, y'know, the whole pandemic thing). But I forget exactly what's paid on there.

 

[Nivag]

I've just started seeing this website being mentioned as a good way to plan routes.
Haven't tried it myself yet.

Free Route Planner for Outdoor Pursuits - plotaroute.com

Route Planner. Powerful and accurate route mapping tool that makes planning and measuring routes easy. For walks, runs and bike rides, on or off-road.

www.plotaroute.com

 

[teuchter]

Just ordered a Roam

Have you been using this yet Winot ? If so does it live up to expectations?

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I've just started seeing this website being mentioned as a good way to plan routes.
Haven't tried it myself yet.

Free Route Planner for Outdoor Pursuits - plotaroute.com

Route Planner. Powerful and accurate route mapping tool that makes planning and measuring routes easy. For walks, runs and bike rides, on or off-road.

www.plotaroute.com

i've used this and it's easy to use and does most things but.....there's a limit on how many routes you can plot, as with most sites there's always a restriction somewhere.

 

[Winot]

Have you been using this yet Winot ? If so does it live up to expectations?

Yes I’ve used it a few times.

TLDR - not bad for urban journeys but probably better for rural use. Expensive for what it is.

Setup is straightforward. UI not bad. Its own navigation software works well for a basic route that you’re not going to change. Button control on device works well.

Mapping could be clearer but it’s quite a small screen so perhaps I’m expecting too much. Re-routing was poor to start with but seemed to have settled down and got better (I hadn’t realised that I needed to update local maps so perhaps that explains it).

What was excellent was planning a bespoke route on RidewithGPS (free registration) and then syncing with the device - that worked seamlessly.

 

[teuchter]

Yes I’ve used it a few times.

TLDR - not bad for urban journeys but probably better for rural use. Expensive for what it is.

Setup is straightforward. UI not bad. Its own navigation software works well for a basic route that you’re not going to change. Button control on device works well.

Mapping could be clearer but it’s quite a small screen so perhaps I’m expecting too much. Re-routing was poor to start with but seemed to have settled down and got better (I hadn’t realised that I needed to update local maps so perhaps that explains it).

What was excellent was planning a bespoke route on RidewithGPS (free registration) and then syncing with the device - that worked seamlessly.

Thanks.
Sort of matches my impression from watching a few reviews.

It looks to me like the mapping is pretty basic and narrow in view compared to what I'm used to on my smartphone. I like to follow a line (or make it up as I go along) and understand where I am, rather than using turn-by-turn instructions.

Really the only things that don't entirely work with the smartphone solution for me are (a) battery life and (b) visibility in bright sunlight.

I started to think, maybe I'd keep the smartphone on the handlebars, and have one of these things next to it, only turning the smartphone on when I need a better map view. But then £300 seems a lot, and maybe something a lot more basic, in conjunction with a smartphone, makes more sense.

Now I'm thinking, if I'm going to end up with two devices attached to the bike, might as well just make one of them a battery pack and have it connected to the phone.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You can zoom in or out on a Wahoo to make the map as detailed or wide ranging as you want...

 

[Winot]

You can zoom in or out on a Wahoo to make the map as detailed or wide ranging as you want...

Yes and the zoom works well.

The problem I have been having with navigation is that the ‘you are here’ marker is a fixed point at the bottom centre of the screen, rather than a blue dot (say) in the middle of the screen as with Google maps. Also I am missing voiceover that you get on Apple Watch. It may just be a case of getting used to a new GUI.

 

[teuchter]

You can zoom in or out on a Wahoo to make the map as detailed or wide ranging as you want...

It looks like the maps themselves are pretty basic though - much less info than what I'm used to, which is something more like the second image.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It looks like the maps themselves are pretty basic though - much less info than what I'm used to, which is something more like the second image.

View attachment 220514View attachment 220515

Ah. I find the “less is more” approach easier to follow when riding at speed - a quick glance shows the info I need, rather than having to pick out from a load of clutter. The detail is good when actually planning the route, once on the move i just don’t need it.

 

[newbie]

Now I'm thinking, if I'm going to end up with two devices attached to the bike, might as well just make one of them a battery pack and have it connected to the phone.

ime the wire falls out

 

[teuchter]

Ah. I find the “less is more” approach easier to follow when riding at speed - a quick glance shows the info I need, rather than having to pick out from a load of clutter. The detail is good when actually planning the route, once on the move i just don’t need it.

Yeah, I get that - some of the time the less cluttered approach is fine/better but I'd like to be able to look at a "proper" map at least some of the time. For example when I'm not using a pre-planned route, and looking for a specific address, when things like street names become important. Or making a judgement on what kind of road might be available.

Or on a long ride, even having a look at the route ahead to see where might be nice for a lunch stop.

I'm not the time trials on Strava type of cyclist. Maybe this kind of thing is aimed more at that market.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm not the time trials on Strava type of cyclist. Maybe this kind of thing is aimed more at that market.

Yes, it’s definitely aimed at the “sporty” end of the market, and designed around that - all the various power/cadence/performance metrics it can show, integration with Di2 gearing and so on.

I think Garmin do a couple of units that are aimed more at the cycle touring market that put the navigation side first, rather than the data.

Garmin’s New $249 Edge Explore Full Mapping & Navigation Bike GPS: Everything you ever wanted to know

In the lead-up to Eurobike, today Garmin announced the new Edge Explore. Now, you’ve probably heard the Edge Explore or ‘Touring’ names battered around for half a decade or so. Usually along with a numerical identifier like ‘Edge Explore 1000’,

www.dcrainmaker.com

 

[teuchter]

That looks to be more aimed at what I want, yes.

The only metrics I'm really interested in are speed, location and altitude.

I'm not really clear what exactly justifies the expense of the Wahoo things. Unless it's simply that they've cornered a market through good software design and support. They don't appear to offer anything all that special hardware wise.

 

[thebackrow]

My experience trying to navigate with Garmin devices has been poor over a number of generations of them. The screens on the cycling devices just aren't large enough (except maybe no the very expensive 1000 model) and the routing was completely screwy. (I have an older generation Edge Touring). The Touring occasionally spontaneously resets to factory settings just for good measure and a few times when I tried navigating by postcode in London it actually took me to the wrong place - about a mile away from the correct location. Garmin car satnavs were fine so don't know how they mess this up.

I actually had much more success navigating with much older generation, no internal mapping, black & White 'walking' units and I've heard if you actually want to navigate something like the Oregon is much better now.

For recording rides, time, distance etc, the edge 130 is really nice (though battery life should be better - it's never run out on my on an all day ride, but it's been close)

For navigating in London my preference is google maps on my phone giving audio directions via headphones. I then decide when to ignore it (if it's putting me on a busy road) and if you miss a turning it redirects you - better than peering at a screen in traffic.

 

[newbie]

Yeah, I get that - some of the time the less cluttered approach is fine/better but I'd like to be able to look at a "proper" map at least some of the time. For example when I'm not using a pre-planned route, and looking for a specific address, when things like street names become important. Or making a judgement on what kind of road might be available.

Or on a long ride, even having a look at the route ahead to see where might be nice for a lunch stop.

I'm not the time trials on Strava type of cyclist. Maybe this kind of thing is aimed more at that market.

I can't fully recommend any of the current range, because what I use is ancient, but you might find Memory Map worth looking at. There's an Android trial on the playstore. IOS too I guess.

I use V4 (my maps are mostly from 2004) and gave up on upgrading because for years their pricing and general attitude was so poor. However, V6 is a much better looking deal and I might upgrade. I can certainly vouch for tracking using offline maps so no signal issues, their OS and A-Z maps which I find clearer and easier to read than eg Google or OSM, route planning, use on a PC with simple transfer to/from Android, and track splitting and joining so you can keep a track for posterity without showing the detour via a cafe, join days together or whatever.

My version doesn't have turn by turn navigation and it doesn't look like that's included, but on the odd occasion I've ever needed it I just use google.

 

[thebackrow]

altitude

hilarious - missed this. my older Garmin edge used GPS to get altitude. Supposedly not very accurate (as its tringulating off something very high up) but was good enough. the new edge has a barometric altimeter in it. Much more accurate in theory. And yes, it gives a reasonable figure for total climb/descent. But it's changed by weather changes and half the time it tells me I'm 100m under sea level at the top of Crystal Palace. If you can be bothered to spend 5 minutes or more faffing at the strat of a ride you can manually calibrate it but you'd have thought they could just do it automatically off the satellite.....

 

[teuchter]

I can't fully recommend any of the current range, because what I use is ancient, but you might find Memory Map worth looking at. There's an Android trial on the playstore. IOS too I guess.

I use V4 (my maps are mostly from 2004) and gave up on upgrading because for years their pricing and general attitude was so poor. However, V6 is a much better looking deal and I might upgrade. I can certainly vouch for tracking using offline maps so no signal issues, their OS and A-Z maps which I find clearer and easier to read than eg Google or OSM, route planning, use on a PC with simple transfer to/from Android, and track splitting and joining so you can keep a track for posterity without showing the detour via a cafe, join days together or whatever.

My version doesn't have turn by turn navigation and it doesn't look like that's included, but on the odd occasion I've ever needed it I just use google.

Thanks, will have a look at that.

I actually find OSM ok. The maps themselves I think are pretty good, and a hundred times better than Google maps. The app I use on my phone - OSMand - is a bit clunky but I have learned to live with it. It allows me to have fully detailed maps offline (even including contour lines) which is useful abroad or in places without mobile reception.

 

[teuchter]

hilarious - missed this. my older Garmin edge used GPS to get altitude. Supposedly not very accurate (as its tringulating off something very high up) but was good enough. the new edge has a barometric altimeter in it. Much more accurate in theory. And yes, it gives a reasonable figure for total climb/descent. But it's changed by weather changes and half the time it tells me I'm 100m under sea level at the top of Crystal Palace. If you can be bothered to spend 5 minutes or more faffing at the strat of a ride you can manually calibrate it but you'd have thought they could just do it automatically off the satellite.....

I think GPS is often a bit sketchy on altitude, at least on my smartphone ... a run round my local park sometimes includes sudden ascents and descents of 100s of metres. On the bike, as long as it's generally within 10m or so, with occasional blips, that's fine. Mainly I'm just interested in how much more hill I've got left to climb.

 

[newbie]

Thanks, will have a look at that.

I actually find OSM ok. The maps themselves I think are pretty good, and a hundred times better than Google maps. The app I use on my phone - OSMand - is a bit clunky but I have learned to live with it. It allows me to have fully detailed maps offline (even including contour lines) which is useful abroad or in places without mobile reception.

Your eyesight must be better than mine. I gave up on Osmand for various reasons but mostly readability, expand the view to read the streetname and the words immediately shrink again. Vector maps made by teenagers with good eyes.

Further investigation of the M-M website shows their business practices haven't improved, the unambiguous £40 suddenly turns into £100, the £30 historic maps become £240, nothing's transparently explained. If they'd had a different attitude years ago they could have cleaned up, as it was they spent so long arguing about DRM on phones that someone else made the first Android app for their content (prior to that it was Windows mobile on a PDA), which they then tried to close down and got ridiculous when they found the internet laughing at them. Their own product was a) years late and b) unusable, I wasn't alone in drifting away. the trial I've just downloaded seems ok though, we'll see.

 

[Nivag]

Thanks, will have a look at that.

I actually find OSM ok. The maps themselves I think are pretty good, and a hundred times better than Google maps. The app I use on my phone - OSMand - is a bit clunky but I have learned to live with it. It allows me to have fully detailed maps offline (even including contour lines) which is useful abroad or in places without mobile reception.

I use OSMand on my offroad motorbike, it gives me plenty of options for tagging different waypoints or POI's - it's routing isn't as slick as Google or Waze if only using it on the road but for logging byways/UCR's it good enough for me and imports/exports GPXs without any problems.
A similar app is Locus, which my mate prefers over OSMand.

It's definitely a bonus having the maps I need pre-downloaded to the phone because even in the UK the data signal can be patchy when looking for routes.