Champion Hill: Proposed Ground Redevelopment

[GregDHFC]

Is there room in the plans for bars to be set up in other corners of the ground? In my opinion that has been the improvement that has made the most difference to queueing times.

We can have the best club bar in the world, but they'll still struggle to serve 1500 people in 15 minutes.

Is there room for food stalls too?

 

[Jimbob73]

Apparently there is room for temporary structures on match day, for beer and food, in the corners of the ground.

 

[Cardinal]

So it looks like we could get away with no covered standing, but there is a stated preference for cover on more than one side of the ground and I can't think of another ground above county league level with no covered standing. (Yeovil had none when it was opened around the same time as our current ground, but there was a 2,500 seat stand on each side!)

There are a couple I can think of off the top of my head. Boreham Wood and Welling have no covered terracing: both have got A grades, and both have recently spent time in the National League. Also, I haven't been to Bromley's ground since they put up their new stand but their previous level of "cover" was pretty pathetic and didn't keep any rain off. However, all of those grounds have covered seated accommodation on at least two sides so that does comply with the preference for cover on more than one side of the ground.

With respect to the covered terracing issue, I'm pretty sure that Chelmsford's 'ro-ro' terraces are counted towards the capacity calculation at Melbourne Park, and one of those is even covered. If you could put in similar temporary structures which were only erected for home games that may get round the issues with MOL sightlines. However, you would need somewhere to store the terraces when not in use, and that might be a bigger problem.

 

[pinknblue]

Personally I'd say it is when you're at a spectator event and it's blindingly obvious other people have to watch from behind you as there isn't enough room for everyone at the front. I don't even own an umbrella and haven't done for a very long time. I simply check the weather forecast before a match and dress appropriately .If we can ban people from bringing their own booze into the ground we can ban them from bringing in umbrellas.

That's pretty OTT! You'll be banning people in shorts for having 'antisocial knobbly knees next'! Or 'antisocial hipster beards that spoil the ambience'!

 

[Jimbob73]

Anyone know where we can see the full plans or when the club are going to present them to us?
I'm sure someone mentioned an open meeting was going to be scheduled to show us.

 

[Crispy]

Anyone know where we can see the full plans or when the club are going to present them to us?
I'm sure someone mentioned an open meeting was going to be scheduled to show us.

Major planning applications like this can take weeks to validate. They have to make sure all the required information (drawings, reports etc.) has been submitted correctly. The limit is 35 days. The last application for the scheme took 18 days to validate, so we might expect to see something on the Southwark planning website in the second week of July.

EDIT: There won't be much more to see than the plans we've already seen, a few pages up. Elevations, sections etc. will come, and some pretty graphics, but nothing that can't be inferred from the plans. More interesting will be the interpretations of policy, the wording of the design statement etc.

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

Good to see last week’s wraparound has become an actual news story this week, from the look of it nothing added from any press release, if there was one.

 

[editor]

Good to see last week’s wraparound has become an actual news story this week, from the look of it nothing added from any press release, if there was one.

I didn't get one, if there was one. I've learnt more about the proposed development from Crispy than anyone else.

 

[scousedom]

I didn't get one, if there was one. I've learnt more about the proposed development from Crispy than anyone else.

Have you been in contact with club officials in the week since the news broke?

 

[tasty_snacks]

Anyone know where we can see the full plans or when the club are going to present them to us?
I'm sure someone mentioned an open meeting was going to be scheduled to show us.

^^^^^This^^^^^^

All good points raised here. Would like to get the chance to quiz those ITK at some point soon.

It's blindingly obvious that bad weather impacts attendances. To say 'just wear a hat and a suitable coat' is bloody daft if you look at it from a casual supporters perspective, and what factors go into the decision to go to a match on any given Saturday.

I'm also unclear how the new bar will help things. It seems longer, but not that much longer? Surely the main factor is sheer weight of traffic? With attendances on a big match day up nearly a third in the new ground, will the old problems not persist?

 

[editor]

Have you been in contact with club officials in the week since the news broke?

Ever worked in journalism? Ever run a free local blog run by volunteers? You'll find that there's precious little time to go around pestering individuals for any possible news updates. The customary way for community ventures is to send out timely press releases to interested parties, prioritising the ones who have been staunch supporters for a very long time.

 

[Latahs]

Oh behave

 

[editor]

Oh behave

OK. I'm backing out. This doesn't feel like the Hamlet I started supporting a decade ago.

 

[Latahs]

Editor- I’m sorry for taking a cheap shot that was too good to pass up.....But I’m not sorry for expressing my frustration at the tone of some of your posts (my club - bleurgh) and the fact you seem to be demanding your views are give some level of priority due to a perceived debt the club owes for your support.

This is a forum about a club on your website. The fact that any of the official parties involved in the club talk on here at all is a complete concession- which also demands the time of volunteers.

No one who uses this forum should expect to shriek into it demanding answers of anyone like some sort of dhfc/dhst batlight.

 

[editor]

Editor- I’m sorry for taking a cheap shot that was too good to pass up.....But I’m not sorry for expressing my frustration at the tone of some of your posts (my club - bleurgh) and the fact you seem to be demanding your views are give some level of priority due to a perceived debt the club owes for your support..

I don't think the club owes me a debt at all, although several people have said that I played a significant part in increasing the awareness and the crowds at Champion Hill in recent years. Or maybe I dreamt that.

And I don't think my views deserve any more priority than anyone else - this is an open forum and no one carries any more weight than anyone else - but I was disappointed to see my ideas - crap though they may be - being belittled and dismissed out of hand with patronising responses like I was some kind of idiot.

 

[scousedom]

I don't think the club owes me a debt at all, although several people have said that I played a significant part in increasing the awareness and the crowds at Champion Hill in recent years. Or maybe I dreamt that.

And I don't think my views deserve any more priority than anyone else - this is an open forum and no one carries any more weight than anyone else - but I was disappointed to see my ideas - crap though they may be - being belittled and dismissed out of hand with patronising responses like I was some kind of idiot.

Have you stopped for a minute to think how patronising you were being to the club, to the people who've worked immensely hard to get us back to Champion Hill, to the people who have been helping with the planning proposal, with what you've been saying? Do you honestly think no one among those people has thought "Hmmm, cover might be nice"? And therefore that if it isn't included in the plans it might be because there's a damned good reason? Maybe you could ask the club what that reason is/was, instead of just calling plans embarrassing. A comment/question like that from a regular contributor is one thing, but from a journalist and moderator it carries far different weight.

 

[B.I.G]

We had a new stadium built for us fairly recently because the old one was unsuitable, how long was it before we needed a new one?

 

[editor]

Have you stopped for a minute to think how patronising you were being to the club, to the people who've worked immensely hard to get us back to Champion Hill, to the people who have been helping with the planning proposal, with what you've been saying? Do you honestly think no one among those people has thought "Hmmm, cover might be nice"? And therefore that if it isn't included in the plans it might be because there's a damned good reason? Maybe you could ask the club what that reason is/was, instead of just calling plans embarrassing. A comment/question like that from a regular contributor is one thing, but from a journalist and moderator it carries far different weight.

I will be a bit embarrassed to tell visiting fans in winter that there is zero cover for the vast majority of the crowd and none for anyone standing. That's my honest opinion. Should I lie about that?

And since when do you speak for 'the club' by the way? Now that is patronising.

Anyway, to repeat: I'm backing out of this debate so please don't bother delivering another of your lectures.

 

[scousedom]

And since when do you speak for 'the club' by the way? Now that is patronising.

I don't speak for the club in any way. To be clear. I just wanted to defend it from what I believe is an unfair attack.

 

[Taper]

Aren’t we missing the issue here. We don’t own our current stadium. And the club remains in a precarious situation because of this. We will effectively own the new stadium. And Whatever the faults in the planning, we can and will improve it. Ownership is the big issue.

 

[B.I.G]

Aren’t we missing the issue here. We don’t own our current stadium. And the club remains in a precarious situation because of this. We will effectively own the new stadium. And Whatever the faults in the planning, we can and will improve it. Ownership is the big issue.

True and a great point. Will we have the right to put in our own planning permission requests as a tenant?

 

[Roger D]

If we are paying for it any such request is likely to be seriously considered. If someone else is paying for it..... Everything has its price.

It appears there is a working relationship and Dulwich have a reasonable degree of input. Sadly unless someone has a few million spare to fund a new stadium that's probably all they will get .

The current ground was supposed to have more cover and terracing I believe. Strangely enough the developer ran out of money for those features. Not the first or last time in non league.

Dulwich are very unlikely to get a perfect stadium, if planning permission is granted. Pragmatism will be needed. Sadly cover and terracing are easy to cut back and the MOL rules may have a say too.

 

[MrFouldsy]

Let's all get along and fight the real enemy.

Mishi

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

Let's all get along and fight the real enemy.

Mishi

Are you saying that I am the real enemy? If not then who is the real enemy?

 

[Dulwich Mishi]

If we are paying for it any such request is likely to be seriously considered. If someone else is paying for it..... Everything has its price.

It appears there is a working relationship and Dulwich have a reasonable degree of input. Sadly unless someone has a few million spare to fund a new stadium that's probably all they will get .

The current ground was supposed to have more cover and terracing I believe. Strangely enough the developer ran out of money for those features. Not the first or last time in non league.

Dulwich are very unlikely to get a perfect stadium, if planning permission is granted. Pragmatism will be needed. Sadly cover and terracing are easy to cut back and the MOL rules may have a say too.

There were also ‘strong rumours’ of, rather than money just running out, of money being diverted elsewhere...allegedly!

 

[Jimbob73]

There were also ‘strong rumours’ of, rather than money just running out, of money being diverted elsewhere...allegedly!

Outrageous! Just don't ask me where I got all these Nectar points from

 

[BrandNewGuy]

The planning application and associated documents are now on Southwark's planning site, though the application hasn't been validated yet, so there are no dates with regard to responses, committee dates etc:
19/AP/1867 | Redevelopment of the Dulwich Hamlet Football (Champion Hill) Stadium, including the demolition of existing buildings and land at Greendalle and redevelopment to provide: - the erection of a new stadium with relocated playing pitch, part two-part three storey clubhouse building with sports and leisure facilities, with capacity for 4,000 spectators (Use Class D2), multi-use games area (MUGA) and associated floodlighting and boundary treatment; - the erection of a series of buildings between four and six storeys in height to provide 224 residential dwellings (89 x one bedroom, 67 x two bedroom and 68 x three bedroom), (Use Class C3); - associated car parking, cycle parking, refuse storage and access road; - creation of a new public linear park and associated hard and soft landscaping; - the relocation of telecommunications equipment, together with associated areas of hard and soft landscaping, car and cycle parking, means of access and plant and equipment. | DULWICH HAMLET FOOTBALL CLUB, EDGAR KAIL WAY, LONDON, SE22 8BD

 

[editor]

The planning application and associated documents are now on Southwark's planning site, though the application hasn't been validated yet, so there are no dates with regard to responses, committee dates etc:
19/AP/1867 | Redevelopment of the Dulwich Hamlet Football (Champion Hill) Stadium, including the demolition of existing buildings and land at Greendalle and redevelopment to provide: - the erection of a new stadium with relocated playing pitch, part two-part three storey clubhouse building with sports and leisure facilities, with capacity for 4,000 spectators (Use Class D2), multi-use games area (MUGA) and associated floodlighting and boundary treatment; - the erection of a series of buildings between four and six storeys in height to provide 224 residential dwellings (89 x one bedroom, 67 x two bedroom and 68 x three bedroom), (Use Class C3); - associated car parking, cycle parking, refuse storage and access road; - creation of a new public linear park and associated hard and soft landscaping; - the relocation of telecommunications equipment, together with associated areas of hard and soft landscaping, car and cycle parking, means of access and plant and equipment. | DULWICH HAMLET FOOTBALL CLUB, EDGAR KAIL WAY, LONDON, SE22 8BD

Crispy - given your expertise on planning matters, would you fancy doing a piece on Buzz explaining the details of this application?

 

[Jimbob73]

I feel a bit happier looking at these plans. First impressions good, Main stand looks great but my main worry is still the lack of any facilities or cover on any other part of the ground. (File attached - I've cut out the pages from the plan with the ground details)

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

So it looks like what was expected by a lot of people. The main building is to be on the existing site and the remainder of the ground is more or less on the site currently occupied by the artificial pitch - on MOL. So is the key issue here whether that constitutes development? Have to say my instinctive reaction would be that it does, but I'm not an expert.