anortherner
Member
It's basically the fully automatic mode 
Canon powershot S95 or Panasonic LX5?
- Thread starter DAN87676
- Start date
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Dan, you will find that there are many ways you can use your camera and still get the same results.
I know an experienced photographer who uses P mode but he very skillfully compensates for light levels using Exposure Compensation.
I tend to use full Manual in which I have two wheels on the camera controlling aperture and the other shutterspeed, I use the in camera spot meter to decide how much of aperture and shutter speed I want for each shot.
Then in various situations you could use S Shutter priority or A Aperture priority, but you should make an effort to understand exposure compensation if you are going to use these or P modes.
In any mode, the only actual things that can be adjusted are 1) ISO 2) Aperture & 3) Shutterspeed.
I know an experienced photographer who uses P mode but he very skillfully compensates for light levels using Exposure Compensation.
I tend to use full Manual in which I have two wheels on the camera controlling aperture and the other shutterspeed, I use the in camera spot meter to decide how much of aperture and shutter speed I want for each shot.
Then in various situations you could use S Shutter priority or A Aperture priority, but you should make an effort to understand exposure compensation if you are going to use these or P modes.
In any mode, the only actual things that can be adjusted are 1) ISO 2) Aperture & 3) Shutterspeed.
anortherner
Member
Oh really? I thought there was more to it than that. Can you please summarise those 3 quickly then I will stop posting I'm probabaly doing your head in by now lol thanks for your help and advice though
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh really? I thought there was more to it than that. Can you please summarise those 3 quickly then I will stop posting I'm probabaly doing your head in by now lol thanks for your help and advice though
ISO = the sensitivity of the chip
Aperture = the size of the hole in the lens through which light comes
Shutter speed = the amount of time the shutter stays open to let the light in.
Those are the three basics of every exposure and whatever shooting mode you choose it is basically these three features that you are setting / choosing for each photograph.
Beware though because you need to understand why you might want to use f11 aperture rather than f2 or why you might want to use 1 second exposure rather than 1/100 of a second.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Understanding Exposure
In P mode or A or S mode your camera has no idea what scene you have pointed it at so has no idea exactly how to expose the image. What the camera meter does is it assumes the scene is on average 18% grey and sets the camera up to expose the subjects in the scene as if they were 18% grey. Green grass in sunlight is about 18% grey.
So on a normal day, some sunlight or perhaps slightly overcast you can just point and shoot in P, A or S modes because the scene will probably average out to 18% grey and the camera will render it pretty much as you see it. Some photographers will stick to the camera's default setting all the time, seemingly to no loss.
However, there are scenes which will trick the camera's on board automatic metering and this is when you may want to consider Exposure Compensation.
Exposure Compensation
You could use exposure compensation when the scene in front of you does not resemble 18% gray, perhaps it is a lot lighter or perhaps a lot darker than 18% gray.
Consider the scene of a white swan floating on dark waters. Remember the camera will want to render the scene overall as 18% gray, but the water, which covers a lot of the image, is much darker than that. If you shoot at the meter recommended settings, the dark water will come out over exposed and gray rather than dark black and the swan will be a blob of over exposed white. So what you might want to do, to expose the dark water and the white swan how you see them, is to compensate your exposure. In practice you would want to let in LESS light than the camera meter suggests so that the dark water remains dark. Less light is negative compensation, so you could dial in a click or a couple of negative compensation and get darker waters and a less over exposed swan.
Consider the opposite, a scene that is much brighter than 18% gray, perhaps a white snow scene or a sandy beach on a sunny day. In this case the camera's meter which intends to expose the scene at 18% grey would result in grey snow or an overcast beach. Taking the snow scene, you want the snow to come out white because that is what you see, here you would need to let in MORE light than the camera's onboard meter proposes. To do this you could dial in some positive compensation, dial in a couple of clicks and hey presto you will have white rather than grey snow in your image.
In P mode or A or S mode your camera has no idea what scene you have pointed it at so has no idea exactly how to expose the image. What the camera meter does is it assumes the scene is on average 18% grey and sets the camera up to expose the subjects in the scene as if they were 18% grey. Green grass in sunlight is about 18% grey.
So on a normal day, some sunlight or perhaps slightly overcast you can just point and shoot in P, A or S modes because the scene will probably average out to 18% grey and the camera will render it pretty much as you see it. Some photographers will stick to the camera's default setting all the time, seemingly to no loss.
However, there are scenes which will trick the camera's on board automatic metering and this is when you may want to consider Exposure Compensation.
Exposure Compensation
You could use exposure compensation when the scene in front of you does not resemble 18% gray, perhaps it is a lot lighter or perhaps a lot darker than 18% gray.
Consider the scene of a white swan floating on dark waters. Remember the camera will want to render the scene overall as 18% gray, but the water, which covers a lot of the image, is much darker than that. If you shoot at the meter recommended settings, the dark water will come out over exposed and gray rather than dark black and the swan will be a blob of over exposed white. So what you might want to do, to expose the dark water and the white swan how you see them, is to compensate your exposure. In practice you would want to let in LESS light than the camera meter suggests so that the dark water remains dark. Less light is negative compensation, so you could dial in a click or a couple of negative compensation and get darker waters and a less over exposed swan.
Consider the opposite, a scene that is much brighter than 18% gray, perhaps a white snow scene or a sandy beach on a sunny day. In this case the camera's meter which intends to expose the scene at 18% grey would result in grey snow or an overcast beach. Taking the snow scene, you want the snow to come out white because that is what you see, here you would need to let in MORE light than the camera's onboard meter proposes. To do this you could dial in some positive compensation, dial in a couple of clicks and hey presto you will have white rather than grey snow in your image.
anortherner
Member
Thanks for the explanations mate very helpful!
I know I sound like a miserbale sod but I really do love the camera. The JJC automatic lens cap arrived yesterday, its great it really finishes it off. I can't stop looking at the camera and holding it, it really is a thing of style and beauty, much nicer than the S95 although obviously I am very biased.
Was thinking of getting this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographe...Z3ZM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319890494&sr=8-3 that is specfic to the LX5 but not sure if I would be better with a more general book.
I know I sound like a miserbale sod but I really do love the camera. The JJC automatic lens cap arrived yesterday, its great it really finishes it off. I can't stop looking at the camera and holding it, it really is a thing of style and beauty, much nicer than the S95 although obviously I am very biased.
Was thinking of getting this book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Photographe...Z3ZM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1319890494&sr=8-3 that is specfic to the LX5 but not sure if I would be better with a more general book.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Probably not a bad idea to get the camera specific book, will tell you a lot about your camera...
You can learn about general aspects of photography online... for free .. (or get a book indeed)
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Couple more for you. Aperture and shutter speed in a little more detail.
Aperture – (aka fstops)
Aperture is one of the aspects of your camera settings which you can adjust, photograph to photograph.
At its most basic, the aperture is the hole in the lens through which light can enter the camera and find its way to the chip. You can adjust the size of this aperture to let in more or less light, as you wish. A big aperture is denoted by a small fstop number, so f1.8 or f2.8 is a big aperture (A big hole which will let in a lot of light) while f16 or f22 is a small aperture which will let in a much smaller amount of light.
Aperture and shutter speed. Assuming you are looking at a constant scene, a larger aperture will let in more light and will require a faster shutter speed for the same exposure. If you open the aperture, perhaps from f2.8 to f2 you will be letting in more light - so to avoid over exposure you will want to reduce the amount of time the shutter is open to return to a balanced exposure.
Equally, if you wanted to change from a small aperture f16 to f22 (an even smaller one) you would be letting in less light and consequently would have to leave the shutter open for longer in order to get the same exposure. Exposure in this case meaning the total amount of light you let into the chip.
Aperture and depth of field.
Depth of field is the amount of the photograph front to back that is in focus and sharp. A photo of a person (perhaps taken at f2) with the background all blurred would be said to have a narrow depth of field because only the bit in which the person is - is sharp and in focus. Correspondingly a photograph of a landscape (perhaps taken at f22) where the foreground and background details are all sharp would be described as having a large depth of field.
Your selection of Aperture affects how much depth of field you will have in the resulting photograph. A large aperture (f1.8, f2 etc) will give a shallow depth of field while a small aperture (f16, f22) will give a large depth of field.
Your selection of aperture will affect shutter speed, so if you want to select f22 for a landscape you will find that you need a slow shutter speed to properly expose the scene. If you are selecting f2 for a portrait, and want the background out of focus, you will have to select a relatively fast shutter speed.
Shutter Speed
Apart from aperture, the other critical setting you can adjust between shots is shutter speed.
The shutter is a curtain that covers the chip. It can be opened to let light in for varying amounts of time, described as shutter speeds. A shutter speed of 1/100 means that the shutter is open (letting light in) for one hundredth of a second. 1/1000 means it is open for one thousandth of a second.
Shutter speed and aperture are related, for the same scene if you open up the aperture (let in more light) you will require the shutter to be open for a shorter time for the same exposure. If you close down the aperture (let in less light) you will require the shutter to be open longer for the same exposure.
Hand holding
A rule of thumb is that you can hand hold the camera down until the shutter speed is slower than the lens length, so if you have a 50mm lens you can probably hand hold the camera down to 1/50, if you have a 20mm lens you may be able to hand hold the camera down until 1/20 of a second. If shutter speeds fall below this rule of thumb you are recommended to use something to steady the camera, perhaps a monopod or a tripod.
Blur
You may want to introduce blur into your photographs to indicate movement. A mountain stream shot at 1/1000 will be frozen at that shutter speed and will not indicate movement. You could also shoot it at a full seconds worth of shutter speed which would have the water blurring and showing motion. Equally a panning shot of a racing car taken at 1/1000 will freeze the car and background as if the car was stationary, whereas a shot at 1/125 might permit the wheels and background to blur slightly, indicating motion.
anortherner
Member
Yeah it probably would be best to get both. So which control mainly affects the noise level then? just the iso or a mixture of all 3 settings? Can I get noise levels down in artifical light or am I just asking for too much in this area?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Looks like we posted at the same time above.
I would think that noise is mainly about ISO.. ISO100 being the cleanest. I don't think fstop and shutter speed really affect noise levels. Yes you can get very clean images under artificial lights but I am thinking of studio lights rather than domestic ones. HoweverI have photographed objects (products) in a light tent lit only by a couple of daylight energy saving bulbs, the shutter was open for a while but the results were quite good enough for what we wanted at the time.
If noise is an important aspect for you, there are software products available that attack noise in images, I think one is called "noise ninja" it might be interesting to you to have a look at them.
anortherner
Member
anortherner
Member
Then there are pictures like this where the problems don't seem to really occur. I'm confused, maybe I'm just getting obsessed about the whole noise thing... I just want to make sure there is nothing wrong with the camera because on the reviews I read they gave the impression that there would be next to no noise.
Attachments
weltweit
Well-Known Member
The first picture you posted there is a lot of noise in the sky. Can you tell us what the ISO setting was in that picture ?
I would not worry, you are still early enough to return it if there is a problem.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
What shooting mode did you use for the first picture? I wonder if the camera thought to itself it is dark and you need shutter speed for handholding so I will select ISO1600 or ISO3200 .. perhaps the camera can select its own ISO in that shooting mode. I would check the manual for that shooting mode to see if it can self select ISO level.
anortherner
Member
That was 1250 iso in automatic mode. Maybe I would just be better off to get a replacement or maybe there is nothing wrong with it and it's just me :S
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well hold your horses a minute Dan, ISO1250 is pretty sensitive and will likely be pretty noisy, certainly way more than ISO100.
Can you select a shooting mode in which you set the ISO rather than the camera. Set the ISO to ISO100, rest the camera against something stable and take the shot (or a similar one) again?
anortherner
Member
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Dan, they should not really get lighter the higher the iso that you use because you should adjust other things like aperture or shutter speed to match. But the ISO800 one is very clean, hardly any noise at all, as are the images at lower ISOs. Based on those four images I don't there is anything wrong with your camera.
But, if you are out in the dark, there is moisture in the air and your camera sets the ISO to 1250 it seems you will end up with a noisy image. It is a charachteristic of the camera I would say, not necessarily a defect. You now know this is a possibility so at night you may have to select a shooting mode which does not permit the camera to self select ISO levels.
BTW I have sent a message to editor, hopefully he will pop by and give us the benefit of his views.
But, if you are out in the dark, there is moisture in the air and your camera sets the ISO to 1250 it seems you will end up with a noisy image. It is a charachteristic of the camera I would say, not necessarily a defect. You now know this is a possibility so at night you may have to select a shooting mode which does not permit the camera to self select ISO levels.
BTW I have sent a message to editor, hopefully he will pop by and give us the benefit of his views.
anortherner
Member
OK cheers mate thanks a lot for your help
I just want to be sure it's me, not the camera as its a lot of money to spend on a defective item.
I just want to be sure it's me, not the camera as its a lot of money to spend on a defective item.
editor
hiraethified
You're shooting in the dead of night, so for that kind of shot you'd need a tripod, a cable release and a much lower ISO.
editor
hiraethified
That's actually good for a compact! I'd never use such a high ISO unless I was really desperate.
Tip: set the ISO manually to 200 or something, put the camera on a flat surface and use the self timer.
anortherner
Member
I see! I guess my expectations were unrealistically high. Please forgive me I am new to the world of photography
The images are fantastic in daylight and I am very pleased with this camera, although a bit disappointed with night time results, I now know the limitations of a compact camera and the benefits of setting a lower iso, using a tripod etc. After doing some more playing around with lower iso settings there does seem to be improved quality and lower noise
I now look forward to 'playing about' some more and really getting into the manual controls of this delightful camera. Thanks for all the help and advice this really is a great forum community.
Cheers
Dan
anortherner
Member
Well I'm slowly starting to get a hang of the camera, liking it more and more each day. Here's a few shots I took tonight could you guys please tell me what you think? the noise levels seem ok to you?
ps the people are really blurry is that normal?
Regards
Dan
ps the people are really blurry is that normal?
Regards
Dan
anortherner
Member
Sorry if I am spamming the board with pics I'll take them down afterwards if it's a problem
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Hi Dan, these look a lot better than your earlier attempts at night photography, presumably you are getting the hang of the controls better now. The pictures look ok to me, the bits that should be black are, and the bits that are lit are relatively noise free. They look fine to me.
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