Call for £20 4x4 congestion charge

[Descartes]

what, allow people a choice, ohhh heaven forbid, what ever next, believing that you use of the car is the only and proper way of travel. Long journeys, tosh, pople only do that going on holiday, Don't they?


If you don't need to go off road, then why do you need one? It's called freedom of choice. and having the money to afford it..

what I despise more is fascist, keyboard warriors What a lovely phrase. I wonder who fits that role?

What I really enjoy, pictures of american registered vehicles that are not available over here and the models that are available.... are so few it doesn't matter...

Imports, limited numbers, very few in london... but, when did that ever stop a
a good rant.

 

[Loki]

... but what I despise more is fascist, keyboard warriors.(not necessarily directed at you t/pony)

Well you've chosen the wrong place to lurk then

 

[Descartes]

Wow, Unbelievable, |The UK Comission for Intergrated Transport has stated.....and I take the liberty to quote:

Whilst, sales of 4x4 and sports vehicles have been rising over recent years, these vehicles have also seen above average improvements in fuel consumption rates. Thus, the impact of these vehicles on average car fuel consumption is perhaps not as great as some might imagine. We expect continued strong improvements in fuel consumption rates going forward, despite any continued small rise in 4x4 and sports car sales.

 

[Gixxer1000]

Wow, Unbelievable, |The UK Comission for Intergrated Transport has stated.....and I take the liberty to quote:

Whilst, sales of 4x4 and sports vehicles have been rising over recent years, these vehicles have also seen above average improvements in fuel consumption rates. Thus, the impact of these vehicles on average car fuel consumption is perhaps not as great as some might imagine. We expect continued strong improvements in fuel consumption rates going forward, despite any continued small rise in 4x4 and sports car sales.

The bizarre thing is that demand for these types of vehicles, which once had abysmal mpg, has forced manufacturers to direct research/techniques to improve fuel economy which has the spin off to benefit all types of vehicle.
The only people likely to suffer at the hands of Herr Livingstone are those who can only afford older less efficient vehicles.

 

[paolo]

If you don't need to go off road, then why do you need one? It's called freedom of choice. and having the money to afford it..

...and fuck everyone else?

 

[Descartes]

..and fuck everyone else?

Beautiful turn of phrase, reflects the true nature of your feelings towards your fellow man, but there are always those who will bring up the subject of sex to detract from the argument.

Dare I ask if you are old enough to drive? or are you still on the little bike with the stabilisers?

 

[Gmart]

Surely a tax system based on emissions and fuel efficiency would be easy to do? We live in a liberal society, or should be trying to, just make it more expensive for them. I am not keen on ushering Authoritarianism in just because one set of people don't particularily like another set of people.

 

[paolo]

..and fuck everyone else?

Beautiful turn of phrase, reflects the true nature of your feelings towards your fellow man, but there are always those who will bring up the subject of sex to detract from the argument.

Dare I ask if you are old enough to drive? or are you still on the little bike with the stabilisers?

Eh?

I mean honestly, WTF are you on about?

 

[Descartes]

Sorry, do you find words of more than one syllable confusing?

 

[Gmart]

it's so much more fun to carry on insulting each other rather than return to the subject at hand.

 

[T & P]

From Monday Albert Bridge will have only one lane for each direction, instead of the two northbound lanes it had until now. This is because selfish twat 4x4 owners are using the bridge even though it has a two-tonne weight limit and engineers are concerned about the integrity of the weak structure.

In comparison with normal cars (1.2-1.5 tonnes) the monster trucks some wankers insist on driving in cities weigh as much as 2.6-2.7 tonnes (Range Rover and the BMW offering). Even smaller ones easily go over the 2 tonne mark.

So that's yet another instance of twattish urban 4x4 users fucking things up for the rest of us.

But hey, we should embrace "freedom of choice" eh?

 

[sleaterkinney]

what, allow people a choice, ohhh heaven forbid, what ever next, believing that you use of the car is the only and proper way of travel. Long journeys, tosh, pople only do that going on holiday, Don't they?


If you don't need to go off road, then why do you need one? It's called freedom of choice. and having the money to afford it..

And when that freedom of choice affects other people then that's when we need to curb it. Tough eh?.

 

[Gmart]

And when that freedom of choice affects other people then that's when we need to curb it. Tough eh?.

But all our actions affect each other, surely there has to be tolerance of other people as well. I may not agree with the choices of other people all the time, but i will defend their right to do what they like within the law. The key is to have a law system which reflects how society is, rather than how people wish it would be.

 

[Gixxer1000]

From Monday Albert Bridge will have only one lane for each direction, instead of the two northbound lanes it had until now. This is because selfish twat 4x4 owners are using the bridge even though it has a two-tonne weight limit and engineers are concerned about the integrity of the weak structure.

In comparison with normal cars (1.2-1.5 tonnes) the monster trucks some wankers insist on driving in cities weigh as much as 2.6-2.7 tonnes (Range Rover and the BMW offering). Even smaller ones easily go over the 2 tonne mark.

So that's yet another instance of twattish urban 4x4 users fucking things up for the rest of us.

But hey, we should embrace "freedom of choice" eh?

Funny how the council still wont enforce the 2T ban isnt it? Please dont forget how many MORE vans also fall foul of the weight limits on this structure which is long overdue strengthening works
But hey lets not let the truth get in the way of a good topical story eh

 

[Gixxer1000]

. The key is to have a law system which reflects how society is, rather than how people wish it would be.

No no, please keep up in the back, you should be threatening to key a 4x4

 

[sleaterkinney]

But all our actions affect each other, surely there has to be tolerance of other people as well. I may not agree with the choices of other people all the time, but i will defend their right to do what they like within the law. The key is to have a law system which reflects how society is, rather than how people wish it would be.

That's a bit of a nonsence answer, we need to have laws which protect important things and the environment, road safety etc are important things, more important than a bit of status anxeity.

 

[Gixxer1000]

Boils my piss that bull bars can still be legally fitted to 4x4's, so if you're waiting for legislation............

 

[laptop]

The key is to have a law system which reflects how society is, rather than how people wish it would be.

So murder should be a teensy bit legal, burglary a bit legal, tax-fiddling almost entirely legal and speed limits entirely optional?

 

[TonkaToy]

From Monday Albert Bridge will have only one lane for each direction, instead of the two northbound lanes it had until now. This is because selfish twat 4x4 owners are using the bridge even though it has a two-tonne weight limit and engineers are concerned about the integrity of the weak structure.

In comparison with normal cars (1.2-1.5 tonnes) the monster trucks some wankers insist on driving in cities weigh as much as 2.6-2.7 tonnes (Range Rover and the BMW offering). Even smaller ones easily go over the 2 tonne mark.

So that's yet another instance of twattish urban 4x4 users fucking things up for the rest of us.

But hey, we should embrace "freedom of choice" eh?

If the bridge can't handle more than a tonne, then they should put a weight restriction on it or strengthen it. It's stupid to blame 4x4 drivers.

 

[Gixxer1000]

If the bridge can't handle more than a tonne, then they should put a weight restriction on it or strengthen it. It's stupid to blame 4x4 drivers.

Got to be impressed by Councils spin. They havent spent the 10million required to strengthen it or enforced the unenforcable so they reduce the number of carriageways and blame everyones favourite bogeyman .

 

[editor]

Got to be impressed by Councils spin. They havent spent the 10million required to strengthen it or enforced the unenforcable so they reduce the number of carriageways and blame everyones favourite bogeyman .

So, no blame in your eyes due to the people driving 4x4s over the bridge then, no?

 

[Gixxer1000]

So, no blame in your eyes due to the people driving 4x4s over the bridge then, no?

No more than anyone driving a van,estate car etc.
Read this;
"Albert Bridge was built in 1873 and this grand Victorian suspension bridge links Chelsea to Battersea. After World War II the Victorian bridge was too weak to bear the increased weight of modern traffic. When the LCC announced that they intended to demolish Albert Bridge there was a huge outcry from the Chelsea conservationists, led by Sir John Betjeman. Fortunately the conservationists overcame the town planners and Albert Bridge was saved. As a result Albert Bridge is the only bridge in central London never to have been replaced. At each end of the bridge is a notice instructing the soldiers of nearby Chelsea Barracks to break step when marching over the bridge. It is thought that the vibrations caused by marching in step would damage the delicate structure"
Kind of puts it into context dosent it

 

[editor]

No more than anyone driving a van,estate car etc.
Read this;

Err, fascinating.



So the current trend for manufacturing oversized, overweight, resource-hogging, noisy, polluting, over-engineered style statements over smart, efficient, sensibly proportioned, urban vehicles more appropriate for the job and the environment doesn't bother you in the slightest, no?

And you'd be happy to see the roads clogged up with endless rows of 4x4s, yes?

 

[T & P]

Funny how the council still wont enforce the 2T ban isnt it? Please dont forget how many MORE vans also fall foul of the weight limits on this structure which is long overdue strengthening works
But hey lets not let the truth get in the way of a good topical story eh

How do you propose they enforce it?

There are metal posts limiting the width of any vehicle going through. Larger vans and trucks will not fit through. 4x4s, unfortunately, do. Just about. But the cunts will go as slow as it takes (so they're fucking up the traffic behind them as well, on the Enbankment) so they can cheat and drive through a bridge they're not allowed to fucking drive through.

As the recent study showing that 4x4 drivers are far more prone to driving like dickheads or being on the phone when driving, it would seem they have a fair amount of law breakers amongst them as well.

 

[editor]

As the recent study showing that 4x4 drivers are far more prone to driving like dickheads or being on the phone when driving, it would seem they have a fair amount of law breakers amongst them as well.

Indeed. The study found that drivers of 4x4s "were almost four times as likely to be using hand held mobile phones. They were also more likely to not be wearing seatbelts."

But of more concern is the conclusion of report author Dr David Walker, as quoted in The Independent: "In general 4x4s reduce the risk for their occupants but increase the risk for everyone else. In using a 4x4, instead of a normal car, one's chance of death or serious injury falls by four in 1,000 but the chance of killing or injuring others rises by 11 in 1,000, with a resulting cost to the community."

 

[Loki]

So-called "risk compensation" - due to feeling more secure in your vehicle, you take more risks.

 

[laptop]

How do you propose they enforce [the Albert Bridge weight limit]?

Battersea Park, soon

 

[Gixxer1000]

Err, fascinating.



So the current trend for manufacturing oversized, overweight, resource-hogging, noisy, polluting, over-engineered style statements over smart, efficient, sensibly proportioned, urban vehicles more appropriate for the job and the environment doesn't bother you in the slightest, no?

And you'd be happy to see the roads clogged up with endless rows of 4x4s, yes?

Sorry i'll condense it for those with a short attention span (Geddit!!) -the bridge is underengineered.
I think you will find that I have previously stated that I despise 4x4's but I was looking for a reasoned arguement based on facts.

 

[Gixxer1000]

How do you propose they enforce it?

There are metal posts limiting the width of any vehicle going through. Larger vans and trucks will not fit through. 4x4s, unfortunately, do. Just about. But the cunts will go as slow as it takes (so they're fucking up the traffic behind them as well, on the Enbankment) so they can cheat and drive through a bridge they're not allowed to fucking drive through.
.

Short of having a weighbridge either side its unenforceable. The council could stick up a couple of signs identifying which vehicles are specifically banned (by default from manufacturers data, which is usually a "dry" weight, I suggest that quite a few saloons once fully laden would also transgress) but they dont, why? because the real problem is the cumulative effect of vehicles backed up on the bridge at peak times.

 

[TonkaToy]

Err, fascinating.



So the current trend for manufacturing oversized, overweight, resource-hogging, noisy, polluting, over-engineered style statements over smart, efficient, sensibly proportioned, urban vehicles more appropriate for the job and the environment doesn't bother you in the slightest, no?

And you'd be happy to see the roads clogged up with endless rows of 4x4s, yes?

You're loading up his position with loads of assumptions there. No one wants to see endless rows of any particular type of car - that would be boring.

First off someone made the claim that 4x4s are the reason for Albert bridge being restricted to one lane. They are no more the reason than other vehicles.

I also don't see how you can claim that 4x4s are noisy compared to other cars. Quite the reverse. Underpowered cars will also be more noisy than overpowered cars. Ever heard that awful hairdryer like screech that mopeds emite? It's because they are underpowered with a 2 stroke engine. In any case, to tax a product because it's noisy would be a silly thing to do. £200.00 noise tax on sound systems over 100 watts anyone?

There are many products in our daily lives that are over engineered and could be made so they only just manage to serve the purpose they was intended for. The problem there, is, who gets to decide who has the right to use that product for that purpose and who get's to decide what the REAL purpose is of the product.

It's best to tax people for their fuel consumption. Socially if you want to laugh your tits off at people that have bought £40,000 on a vehicle that doesn't best serve them, then by all means, I'd be quite happy to laugh along side you.

However, I'm worried that what you want is the government, be it central or local government to set dangerous precidents that will punish people unfairly and restrict choice.