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Box sash windows : replace or repair?

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Changing the facts
Couldn’t find an existing thread so here is a new one.


I‘ve decided to upgrade my windows. It will be pricey, my budget is limited, but it will save me money, and it has to be done because some of the windows are rotten.

My main question is:
Would it be better to get one of those specialist dedicated companies in to do the lot, or should I seek out an independent chippy who would upgrade them? (Which would then set me off on a quest to find such a chippy.)

Edwardian flat.

Mostly sash windows

All the sash cords have been painted. Some of the fixtures and fittings have been painted, most have been replaced.

Two original windows that are painted shut and rotten. They’re beaded across the top of the top pane to create squares, which have coloured glass. I’d like to keep the coloured glass but might switch to different colours or maybe some stained glass or fused glass.

An original sash window in the bathroom with original brass fittings, which have been painted over to fuck. This one opens fine top and bottom. Someone suggested replacing the bottom pane with stained or fused glass. I like this idea, for privacy. The blind that was here caused damp and mould to build up behind, so I’ve taken it down and put opaque plastic over the lower pane.

A much larger original sash window in the bedroom, which is pretty rotten, replacement fittings. I’m on the ground floor and I’d really like to get some kind of security fitting on this window so I can open it at night without worrying. Would it be best to get that sorted at the same time, or afterwards?

Two beaded windows that are replacements, so in good nick.

Kitchen has two windows, neither is box sash, one that is just set into the wall, no way to open it and I’d like to replace that with sash, I think (small galley kitchen gets really hot with the oven on) and a modern window with casement opening at the top.


So I want to have proper top spec heat retaining windows that will last me the rest of my time here. Also want them to protect me from heatwaves, but I can do that with blinds. I don’t really want plastic

And I want to get it all done before this winter.

My own research suggests I’m looking at anything up to a couple of grand per window. Can this be true??

Advice and guidance from the Urban work crew would be deeply appreciated.
 
We were looking at a house in a "conservation area".

The box sash windows that were approved by the local council were £4,000 each.

We didn't buy the house.

It is appalling that given the climate crisis and cost of living crisis so many restrictions are placed on people getting decent double glazing. Even £2k a window is prohibitively expensive for most people (and certainly isn't something a buy to let landlord will bother with).

£2k sounds pretty reasonable. Check whether you are in a conservation zone though.
 
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On the specialist company vs local chippy question:

If you want properly performing thermally efficient windows then what's important is that they are carefully specified and then properly manufactured. It's not impossible to achieve this via the "local chippy" route but I would tend to say, go with a specialist window supplier.

Modern windows with double (or triple) glazing, proper air seals and so on are a bit of a different beast from the single glazed edwardian or victorian ones they often replace. They need to be made with fairly high precision, and that's best done in factory conditions by people who do it every day.

You should also think about things like whether you can get them with a warranty. That applies to the window frame, the glazing units and the installation of the completed windows. It's better really if all of those things are covered by the same company so that if there are problems, you aren't in the situation where you have multiple people blaming each other.

Get a few quotes from different companies, and then compare them carefully, because they won't all be offering you the same thing. Pay attention to the glazing spec.

There are a few window threads on urban, some of which have various boring essays from me on them. Might be worth reading through a couple of those threads.
 
I looked into specialist firms when i needed mine done but they had huge waiting lists. Went with a very local joinery company who were really good.

I've big sash windows. Got two completely replaced as they were rotten and the others double glazed. It was about eight years ago and yes, it was really expensive. Made a huge difference temperature wise to my flat though.

(Also remember you'll need to get the frames painted afterwards too.)

Eta re teuchter 's point about local joinery firms. The one i used does do other stuff but the vast majority of their business is sash windows. They talked me through things at length to work out exactly what I wanted/what was possible. The two guys who installed them had both worked for the company for like 20 years each. I also got whatever the certificate thing is. (Can't remember the acronym right now.)
 
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Also - if you want to do it properly, don't bank on it being possible to do it before this winter.
 
We were all set in our block (8 flats) to replace all our front sash windows (many of which, mine included, are quite rotten and need replacing) with new ones. These are UPVC (not that you can tell until you're six inches away and I'm on the second floor), fully functioning sash windows with double glazing, very reasonably priced and should last a lifetime. But we can't get planning permission (as in a conservation area). So now we're stuck, facing the £4000 per window dilemma (that's £96,000 for the block!) I might just have to get someone in to patch them up.
 
Small joinery firm my sister used to work for could make double glazed sash windows. Even used to cast their own lead weights. Wouldn't be cheap though.

I have seen some uPVC windows that look like sash windows until you open them when they open outwards.
 
These are UPVC (not that you can tell until you're six inches away and I'm on the second floor), fully functioning sash windows with double glazing, very reasonably priced and should last a lifetime.
What manufacturer/system specifically?
 
There are independent specialist chippies who do this work too. It's worth looking at that third option but you will find they have waiting lists. I'm learning to do my own because I've had a quote for 8k for one of my windows and I have 9 that need doing. ;)
 
What manufacturer/system specifically?
From a local supplier/fitter, but not sure what the system is. We've had some fitted at the back of the block (no planning permission needed) and they look great (and they are fully functioning sash windows.)
 
Rest of neighbours' windows have been replaced with plastic, I love the wood so have kept mine. Had a mate (is a painter and decorator) come round and paint them up on the outside - I did them last year but thought I should have it done properly.

He's done a nice job apart from painting one of them shut and painted the other two open :facepalm: I've got one of them to close but he said he'd come round to sort it two weeks ago.

Next time I'll have them taken out and painted for a proper proper job.
 
From a local supplier/fitter, but not sure what the system is. We've had some fitted at the back of the block (no planning permission needed) and they look great (and they are fully functioning sash windows.)
Reason I ask is that I've not dealt specifically with box sash windows for a little while so I'm not entirely up to date with what the PVC look-alikes are like now. I know they are quite a bit better than they were.

The problem at least used to be not just that you could tell they were plastic (eg from the way the frames were jointed together) but the frames were considerably chunkier than the original windows and they just didn't look the same.

Were you refused planning permission solely because they are made of plastic? Or were there comments about the frame detailing not replicating the original windows (because I think those criticisms can be valid if it's a historic building)
 
Mentioned it on another thread but I've added secondary glazing with magnetic strips which work really well. Best secondary glazing I've seen though was in a pub in Falmouth - separate wood frame windows inside the others, looked lovely.
 
Front of our place has six large sash windows which I have preserved with regular coats of white gloss.they are about two hundred years old but they still slide up and down nicely .Useless for keeping out draughts the glass is paper thin so our winter solution has been large sheets of acrylic on the inside of the box with pivoting plastic fasteners at each edge.back of the house gets all the weather here there are only three surviving sash windows the others are modern two by three pine efforts.About nine months ago we realised that we couldn't afford new windows .Since that time there is only the acrylic sheet keeping the weather out on the windward side and the three ancient sash windows are starting to break up.Bits fall off onto our back strip of garden but no-one goes around the back since the milkman took Ill so the sash windows will stay until they don't.
 
(Subscribes to thread.) We need windows replacing. We're grade two listed. It's going to be a major problem)
 
I've got a friend who is local to you who does replacement sash windows. I'll PM his details but he's on holiday in Italy at the moment.
 
What manufacturer/system specifically?

I’ve got some upvc sashes, they are way cheaper than wooden sashes, don’t need painting, open just like regular sashes and as other posters have said are practically indistinguishable. Go to a double glazing showroom and look at them.
 
I’ve got some upvc sashes, they are way cheaper than wooden sashes, don’t need painting, open just like regular sashes and as other posters have said are practically indistinguishable. Go to a double glazing showroom and look at them.
Yes, I'm aware that some are pretty good now but assume some are better than others and that the better looking ones are more expensive. I'm wondering on what grounds the permission for Leighsw2's windows were refused permission.
 
I’m a bit overwhelmed by all this tbh. Which is why I’ve already left it so late in the year (I know it’s becoming increasingly unlikely to get this done before the winter, but hope springs eternal).

Boudicca thank you for the PM. I will definitely be following up on that.

And thanks also to everybody else who is taking the time to post a reply here.

teuchter I did make a cursory search for other threads last night, and will be seeking those out for your informative essays in the coming days.

If anyone knows whether or not it’s possible to incorporate arty glass class into any of these windows I’d be grateful. Alternative is obviously just to fit coloured or stained glass over the window once it’s in place.
 
If anyone knows whether or not it’s possible to incorporate arty glass class into any of these windows I’d be grateful. Alternative is obviously just to fit coloured or stained glass over the window once it’s in place.
You can have stained glass in double glazing I've see it done before.

Wether it affects the performance of the double glazing I'm not sure.
 
A couple of recent threads



Additionally there are bits of window related discussion spread throughout these two threads (search function may be your friend)



I believe bimble is a recently qualified expert in window replacement and DIY refurb, can't recall if she had a specific thread or whether discussion was in those two above.
 
If anyone knows whether or not it’s possible to incorporate arty glass class into any of these windows I’d be grateful. Alternative is obviously just to fit coloured or stained glass over the window once it’s in place.
If you have double or triple glazing, you can choose different types of glass (frosted, reeded, coloured, etc) for either of the panes of glass. Double glazed frosted bathroom windows are common for example.

But if you want the window to contain multiple sections of different glass patterns/colours, as in a traditional stained glass window then it's usually done like this:

 
Sash windows are such a pain. I hate them. They cause nothing but grief, and cleaning them on the outside is also an ball ache if you live high up with no access to a ladder or balcony.
 
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