BBC accused of antisemitism

[HeAthen]

Yeah, right........

TV and film industry letter accuses BBC of antisemitism

The letter says the BBC should be "worried they might have a serious, institutional racism problem".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[krtek a houby]

Oh, they're antisemitic now, is it?

 

[HeAthen]

Oh, they're antisemitic now, is it?

Apparently so. I'm not convinced.

 

[krtek a houby]

Apparently so. I'm not convinced.

Have heard many, many accusations towards the BBC over the years but this is a new one.

 

[Richard46]

Former Panorama producer Neil Grant said: "When Jews tell you they feel antisemitism, don't question it or define it for us.

I am sure these feelings are real but they cannot be used to 'define' the actions of others as antisemitic.

 

[teqniq]

What bullshit is this?

 

[two sheds]

It does seem to need to be separated out from 'any criticism of Israel's actions in Palestine is antisemitic'

 

[tim]

The assumption that these complaints are made in bad faith is nudge-nudge, wink-wink antisemitic bullshit. The implication is that we shouldn't believe Jews who say they feel threatened or discriminated against

 

[Plumdaff]

It does seem to need to be separated out from 'any criticism of Israel's actions in Palestine is antisemitic'

Particularly as both the cited instances of alleged antisemitism cited in the article relate to criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza, surprisingly enough.

 

[cesare]

Particularly as both the cited instances of alleged antisemitism cited in the article relate to criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza, surprisingly enough.

Exactly.

 

[teqniq]

Wrt to reportage on what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank, the BBC goes absolutely out of it's way to appear impartial. In fact it goes too far imo.

 

[two sheds]

The assumption that these complaints are made in bad faith is nudge-nudge, wink-wink antisemitic bullshit. The implication is that we shouldn't believe Jews who say they feel threatened or discriminated against

But there again accusations of antisemitism need to be backed up with clear examples. I can quite imagine that BBC personnel have made antisemitic comments on social media in which case that certainly needs to be handled. The example given in that article concerned criticism of Israel's actions, though.

I'd go further than teqniq and say that BBC like most other British media is biased towards Israel in coverage of the slaughter in Palestine.

 

[zedr]

It would be useful for news channels to provide the full text of the letter rather than picking their ow choice quotes from it. I can't find the full text online, does anyone have a link?

 

[two sheds]

and the BBC's response - the article said there was one.

 

[Silas Loom]

The JC has rather more detail about a series of letters.

Furious Jewish staff say BBC’s handling of antisemitism echoes the Huw Edwards scandal

More than 200 Jews in the BBC and broadcasting industry have written a letter of complaint

www.thejc.com

The main beef seems to be junior people at the BBC overtly celebrating the October 7 attacks and getting away with it.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The assumption that these complaints are made in bad faith is nudge-nudge, wink-wink antisemitic bullshit. The implication is that we shouldn't believe Jews who say they feel threatened or discriminated against

It depends on why they feel like that, is it real antisemitic stuff, or just anti-Israel's actions, TBF I wouldn't be surprise if some Arabic staff have overstepped the mark, because of the history in the region.

 

[krtek a houby]

It depends on why they feel like that, is it real antisemitic stuff, or just anti-Israel's actions, TBF I wouldn't be surprise if some Arabic staff have overstepped the mark, because of the history in the region.

I believe BBC Arabic staff were let go, not because of any alleged antisemitism, but because of cuts to the World Service.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I believe BBC Arabic staff were let go, not because of any alleged antisemitism, but because of cuts to the World Service.

Nope, they are mentioned in that article, in respect of SM posts, and the BBC still has the BBC News Arabic TV service.

In 2011, as the British government cut funding to the BBC, leading the BBC World Service to close down its services in five languages, the government simultaneously increased funding to the BBC Arabic service, in the words of Foreign Secretary William Hague, to "assist the BBC Arabic Service to continue their valuable work in the region". WIKI LINK

 

[Richard46]

The assumption that these complaints are made in bad faith is nudge-nudge, wink-wink antisemitic bullshit. The implication is that we shouldn't believe Jews who say they feel threatened or discriminated against

I agree unless there is actual proof of bad faith the assumption should be that the feelings are real. Those feelings however are not evidence of the antisemitic intent of whatever caused those feelings.
By the same token that the default should be that the feelings of the Jews involved should be believed then denial of antisemitic intent should be credited unless there is evidence.

I don't see the evidence here to know if the claims about antisemitism behind the scenes at the BBC are substantial (I am sure there is some) but I do know that the claims about the reporting being antisemitic are wrong because I watch a great deal of BBC coverage.

 

[krtek a houby]

Nope, they are mentioned in that article, in respect of SM posts, and the BBC still has the BBC News Arabic TV service.

Sorry, I mean the radio service. That went last year, iirc.

 

[Duncan2]

I agree unless there is actual proof of bad faith the assumption should be that the feelings are real. Those feelings however are not evidence of the antisemitic intent of whatever caused those feelings.
By the same token that the default should be that the feelings of the Jews involved should be believed then denial of antisemitic intent should be credited unless there is evidence.

I don't see the evidence here to know if the claims about antisemitism behind the scenes at the BBC are substantial (I am sure there is some) but I do know that the claims about the reporting being antisemitic are wrong because I watch a great deal of BBC coverage.

Agreed- if the suggestion is of bias against Israel in BBC reporting of the conflict it's laughable.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I don't see the evidence here to know if the claims about antisemitism behind the scenes at the BBC are substantial (I am sure there is some) but I do know that the claims about the reporting being antisemitic are wrong because I watch a great deal of BBC coverage.

Although I am guessing not the BBC News Arabic TV service coverage.

But, the complaints seem to about both coverage and social media posts, but mainly the SM posts -

The letter referred to documents sent to BBC chairman Samir Shah, in which the group claimed there had been multiple breaches of the broadcaster's social media guidelines.

The same month, BBC director general Tim Davie told MPs some tweets by BBC Arabic staff were "unacceptable", and maintained that the broadcaster was "acting fairly and judiciously".

 

[Knotted]

These accusations have been made in bade faith. It's blatant. They want the want the BBC to stop reporting on Gaza. They may also contain valid criticisms of the BBC and we shouldn't assume they don't. But this is why complaints like this are so harmful. So much easier for all the conspiracy theory bullshit to hide behind "we're just criticising Israel" when these attempts to kill two birds with one stone are made.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

These accusations have been made in bade faith. It's blatant. They want the want the BBC to stop reporting on Gaza. They may also contain valid criticisms of the BBC and we shouldn't assume they don't. But this is why complaints like this are so harmful. So much easier for all the conspiracy theory bullshit to hide behind "we're just criticising Israel" when these attempts to kill two birds with one stone are made.

I don't think that's fair at all. They definitely don't want the BBC to stop reporting on Gaza.

 

[8ball]

The assumption that these complaints are made in bad faith is nudge-nudge, wink-wink antisemitic bullshit. The implication is that we shouldn't believe Jews who say they feel threatened or discriminated against

I doubt this would play well if it was a different minority group involved.

 

[cupid_stunt]

These accusations have been made in bade faith. It's blatant. They want the want the BBC to stop reporting on Gaza. They may also contain valid criticisms of the BBC and we shouldn't assume they don't. But this is why complaints like this are so harmful. So much easier for all the conspiracy theory bullshit to hide behind "we're just criticising Israel" when these attempts to kill two birds with one stone are made.

I don't that's fair, especially in view of this comment.

The same month, BBC director general Tim Davie told MPs some tweets by BBC Arabic staff were "unacceptable", and maintained that the broadcaster was "acting fairly and judiciously".

 

[mojo pixy]

Former Panorama producer Neil Grant said: "When Jews tell you they feel antisemitism, don't question it or define it for us.

I am sure these feelings are real but they cannot be used to 'define' the actions of others as antisemitic.

Well, it has been suggested in this forum in the last day or two that women are experts on misogyny, and it seemed to be broadly accepted as true (ie. only one poster took issue with the sentiment, and it did get a number of likes) . So that being the case, can jews not be 'experts' on anti-semitism?

 

[Serge Forward]

Well, it has been suggested in this forum in the last day or two that women are experts on misogyny, and it seemed to be broadly accepted as true (ie. only one poster took issue with the sentiment, and it did get a number of likes) . So that being the case, can jews not be 'experts' on anti-semitism?

Jews are, most definitely experts on anti-semitism. And Zionist shills are experts at conflating even the mildest criticism of Israel's actions with anti-semitism.

 

[Richard46]

Well, it has been suggested in this forum in the last day or two that women are experts on misogyny, and it seemed to be broadly accepted as true (ie. only one poster took issue with the sentiment, and it did get a number of likes) . So that being the case, can jews not be 'experts' on anti-semitism?

I am sure they can be. My specific point is that offence taken cannot be used as evidence of offence intended. I think I would apply that across different contexts.
However I do think that anyone who is told by whoever feels the offence that what they did or said gives offence/hurt/pain etc then they should listen.
In this case if anyone told me that criticism of the actions of the present Israeli government was antisemitic I would listen and then firmly reject the charge.

 

[mojo pixy]

I am sure they can be. My specific point is that offence taken cannot be used as evidence of offence intended. I think I would apply that across different contexts.
However I do think that anyone who is told by whoever feels the offence that what they did or said gives offence/hurt/pain etc then they should listen.
In this case if anyone told me that criticism of the actions of the present Israeli government was antisemitic I would listen and then firmly reject the charge.

Yeah that's all very well but it opens the door to a reply like oh come on, I was just joking, stop taking me so seriously, you're too sensitive, the caught-out bully mantra. So no, IMO offence taken is the baseline, not offence intended.

As for criticism of Israel being or not being anti-semitic, it 100% depends on who says it, what is said, and how it's framed. There's plenty of racist criticism of Israel (and Palestine too, fwiw) and still plenty of people who fall into both.