Archive chat from 2007: Dulwich Hamlet FC. Anyone fancy going on Saturday ? (Aug 2007)

[JTG]

Cheers,

Looked like an amazing day but at the same time makes me cringe further for scottish football.

Does anybody think that the fact that there is a pyramid system in england add to lower league football insofar as it allows for a theoretical roy of the rovers scenario where a team from the bottom can go all the way to the top?

Yeah, I think greater fluidity is healthy anyway. Very bottom to very top isn't gonna happen but there have been significant movements through the leagues in either directions in recent years and it does mean that if the worst happens (Darlington, Wimbledon, Newport, Chester etc) then there is a way back which may not take too long with a fair wind and determination. Contrast that with eg Clydebank: no way back into the Scottish League ever unless someone goes bust or whatever. In many ways English football is a complete stitch up at the top but largely it's pretty honest. You can rise or sink to the level you merit

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Cheers,

Looked like an amazing day but at the same time makes me cringe further for scottish football.

Does anybody think that the fact that there is a pyramid system in england add to lower league football insofar as it allows for a theoretical roy of the rovers scenario where a team from the bottom can go all the way to the top?

Nah, not really tbh. It's not really plausible that Dulwich could go up by more than a couple of divisions at the absolute most (actually it's probably a lot easier for a small team to get higher in Scotland). I'm not sure many people who go would want them to - the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed than at even league 1/2 teams.

 

[ska invita]

Cheers,

Looked like an amazing day but at the same time makes me cringe further for scottish football.

Does anybody think that the fact that there is a pyramid system in england add to lower league football insofar as it allows for a theoretical roy of the rovers scenario where a team from the bottom can go all the way to the top?

i think it might do - i know its a fantasy ive had about Dulwich and its something that happened for AFC Wimbledon. I think Bromley made it up into the proper league not long ago which was a big deal of sorts.

I went to watch Peckham Town a couple of times who play Sunday league football and they won their league and there was no other league to go up to, they just keep playing in that same one, which didnt seem too exciting.

Can you say more about scottish football and the problems you alluded?

Overall a good club is about making good links with the community and nurturing a good atmosphere. Personally ive had two bad run-ins with some of the DH management (minor rudeness), but theres a good enough atmosphere amongst the regulars to make me feel welcome. Thats got be the key thing hasnt it?

 

[xslavearcx]

Yeah, I think greater fluidity is healthy anyway. Very bottom to very top isn't gonna happen but there have been significant movements through the leagues in either directions in recent years and it does mean that if the worst happens (Darlington, Wimbledon, Newport, Chester etc) then there is a way back which may not take too long with a fair wind and determination. Contrast that with eg Clydebank: no way back into the Scottish League ever unless someone goes bust or whatever. In many ways English football is a complete stitch up at the top but largely it's pretty honest. You can rise or sink to the level you merit

Totally agreed with the contrast between the closed shop nature of scottish football and the open infrastructure to english football. For a long time, i've been of the opinion that the best thing to happen to scottish football would be if there was an amalgamation between the SFA and FA. As expected, not a very popular opinion, particularly amongst the folks who are into the national team (i'm not), but i think it do a lot to break the stagnancy up here in terms of governance, dominance of the old firm etc. Never in a million years it would happen though!

 

[xslavearcx]

i think it might do - i know its a fantasy ive had about Dulwich and its something that happened for AFC Wimbledon. I think Bromley made it up into the proper league not long ago which was a big deal of sorts.

I went to watch Peckham Town a couple of times who play Sunday league football and they won their league and there was no other league to go up to, they just keep playing in that same one, which didnt seem too exciting.

Can you say more about scottish football and the problems you alluded?

Overall a good club is about making good links with the community and nurturing a good atmosphere. Personally ive had two bad run-ins with some of the DH management (minor rudeness), but theres a good enough atmosphere amongst the regulars to make me feel welcome. Thats got be the key thing hasnt it?

Scottish football closed shop. No access from junior football to senior football unless a team goes bust. And then theres the whole old firm thing ie. a league set up designed to maximise those fixtures (rangers problem notwithstanding) total media coverage, an unhealthy dependance towards the OF from smaller clubs and a lack of willpower to alter such situations....

. I also think a fluid nature also allows for the formation of teams and rivarlies that reflect changing social situations. For example, partick thistle and clyde a pretty irrelavant fixture now, St Mirren V Morton, does Paisley and Greenock have a meaningful 'rivalry' now or is that part of an industrial past?

Yeah scottish football sucks - only started going to games again this season cause for the first time i can be a glory hunter

Edited to add: yeah its all about feeling part of something. I think its very hard if one is a non-old firm supporter to feel connected to anything at all in scottish football.

 

[xslavearcx]

Nah, not really tbh. It's not really plausible that Dulwich could go up by more than a couple of divisions at the absolute most (actually it's probably a lot easier for a small team to get higher in Scotland). I'm not sure many people who go would want them to - the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed than at even league 1/2 teams.

Yeah its a polished chalice i think going up to the top in terms of policing, all sorts of compromises to mass media and what not, its just i guess more the idea that a roy of the rovers scenario can happen, not it actually happening that makes english football at the bottom level imo seem better...

 

[xslavearcx]

I wondered yesterday whether they actually had any fans....and today I found out they're bottom of the table in terms of attendances

Can't think why that might be....

http://www.isthmian.co.uk/attendance-tables.php

They could totally sing that 'no-one likes us' song with justification

 

[JTG]

Nah, not really tbh. It's not really plausible that Dulwich could go up by more than a couple of divisions at the absolute most (actually it's probably a lot easier for a small team to get higher in Scotland). I'm not sure many people who go would want them to - the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed than at even league 1/2 teams.

Point is, small teams can't move anywhere in Scotland - within leagues yes but not between leagues. There's the SPL/SFL set up - closed shop. Then there's the Highland, East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues - ostensibly below the SFL but with no promotion/relegation. There's also the Juniors, completely separate with their own FA and who often get bigger crowds than the lower sides in the SFL but again no way to move between leagues.

Granted, DHFC may be at roughly the level they want to be and can sustain but the possibility is there for teams to grow (and indeed shrink). That simply isn't available to the same extent in Scotland

 

[editor]

I'm still seriously considering buying an urban75 billboard for next season.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Point is, small teams can't move anywhere in Scotland - within leagues yes but not between leagues. There's the SPL/SFL set up - closed shop. Then there's the Highland, East of Scotland and South of Scotland leagues - ostensibly below the SFL but with no promotion/relegation. There's also the Juniors, completely separate with their own FA and who often get bigger crowds than the lower sides in the SFL but again no way to move between leagues.

Granted, DHFC may be at roughly the level they want to be and can sustain but the possibility is there for teams to grow (and indeed shrink). That simply isn't available to the same extent in Scotland

Yeah, I didn't know that. The English way does sound better tbf.

 

[JTG]

Yeah, I didn't know that. The English way does sound better tbf.

It is. Even before 1987 there were occasional changes with teams having to apply for re-election to the League and the present non-league pyramid structure has been in place for over 30 years. Scotland is way behind

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It is. Even before 1987 there were occasional changes with teams having to apply for re-election to the League and the present non-league pyramid structure has been in place for over 30 years. Scotland is way behind

The depth of the league is England's real strength IMO. There's a lot that's better about Spain and Germany in particular but none of them have the sheer number of clubs with decent support.

 

[JTG]

The depth of the league is England's real strength IMO. There's a lot that's better about Spain and Germany in particular but none of them have the sheer number of clubs with decent support.

There's a lot of silly hype about how good English football is but this is a point I agree that it is. Even down to non-league level where a team like Dulwich can pull hundreds when doing well (just to bring the discussion back home!). No reserve teams clogging up the lower divisions either, unlike Spain and Germany

 

[ska invita]

What i really like about lower league football is 1. i can afford to go occasionally 2. its truly local and 3. i would hope there isnt the corruption that there is at the higher end. Id like to think theres no match fixing and bribed officials and what not.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

What i really like about lower league football is 1. i can afford to go occasionally 2. its truly local and 3. i would hope there isnt the corruption that there is at the higher end. Id like to think theres no match fixing and bribed officials and what not.

TBF beyond loads of fans whinging there's not really any evidence that match fixing or bribing officials happens to any degree higher up the league.

 

[vornstyle76]

I can't imagine the theoretical chance of promotion to the Football League is too much of an issue in the average non-league fan's mind (obviously aside from phoenix clubs like AFC Wimbledon going through the chore of consecutive promotions Leaguewards). As Saturday proved, we go absolutely, euphorically wild for success at our current level.

As for attendances at Champion Hill, they're in the hundreds as standard (except for midweek deep-winter London Senior Cup games) and push beyond 500 when we do very well. Interestingly, if non-league was ordered by this season's average crowds we'd be in the Conference South. Can expect some sort of median boost next season: higher status, more away fans (and more Greater London clubs) & people catching the DHFC bug over the last month.

 

[ska invita]

TBF beyond loads of fans whinging there's not really any evidence that match fixing or bribing officials happens to any degree higher up the league.

The fact is where theres money to be made theres corruption. The whole of big sport is corrupt to some degree. Occasionally somone gets rumbeled (Grobellar for example) but theres no appetite by FA and governing bodies to really expose it as its "bad for the brand" (if not other reasons). An article here for starters: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/feb/04/sport-match-fixing and a thread here collecting general examples http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/all-sports-are-fixed.206022/ But lets not get into it on this thread...

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

But lets not get into it on this thread...

Fair enough. I'm supposed to be sworn off general football threads anyway.

I think we can all agree the Rymans League probably isn't fixed.

 

[xslavearcx]

There's a lot of silly hype about how good English football is but this is a point I agree that it is. Even down to non-league level where a team like Dulwich can pull hundreds when doing well (just to bring the discussion back home!). No reserve teams clogging up the lower divisions either, unlike Spain and Germany

Every proposed league reform is chomping at the bit to get Old Firm colt teams at the bottom divisions. This apparently will make scottish football even 'better'

anyway sorry for taking this thread off topic a bit. have to say, if i can ever afford to go down to london think ill take in Dulwhich when im there

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Hello, I'm the one with the magic pink & blue "voodoo stick" who designs the posters. Glad you like them. Found this by vanity searching my name so thought I'd sign up. Hello!

Saturday. Well, oh my days. In fact, one of the best days of my life. Certainly the best footballing experience. Already can't wait for the new season. Feels like we've got a really special momentum now, both on the pitch and on the terraces. Love it.

welcome to Urban75 fella

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Erhun Oztumer rightly cleaned up at the presentation evening last night - Players Player of the Year and Supporters Player of the Year. A just reward for an excellent season, providing us with many goals and magic moments - well done Erhun!

Others here:

The Hamlet end of season awards were handed out tonight at Champion Hill where a magnificent season was celebrated.​

The players received their Isthmian League winners medals at the start of the evening before the individual awards were handed out.

The awards went to:

Youth Team Player of the Season- Xavier Vidal

Reserve Team Player of the Season - Kershaney Samuels

First Team Players Player - Erhun Oztumer

Manager's Player of the Season - Ellis Green

Supporters Player of the Season -

1. Erhun Oztumer.
2. Peter Adeniyi
3. Nyren Clunis.

Tony Squires TV Goal of the Season - Nyren Clunis - Home v Whitstable Town
​

Club Person of the Season - Shaun Dooley & Neil Cole​

 

[editor]

Here's who we'll be playing next season. I'm up for Bognor, Lewes and Lowestoft away for starters.

 

[Balbi]

Met Police?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Met Police?

Can't wait

Margate away as well, shurely?

I'm sure Thamesmead away would be a lovely day out too.

 

[Brixton Hatter]

Mate who comes to Dulwich with us found out today that one his work colleagues used to play for Hamlet in the late 70s - he looked him up and he made 290 appearances! Legend.

He's in this picture - (e2A) middle front row:

http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/dulwichhamlet/news/nearly-a-club-record-872677.html

 

[vornstyle76]

Thamesmead a deliciously easy away day for me, a 5 minutes walk then the 177 to outside their ground. In fact I think there's twelve other teams inside the M25, approximately ten of them Oysterable. A relief as going to the last few away games last season killed me financially.

 

[Lucy Fur]

Happy Days, looks like we get to see Danny Carr in action against us with Huddersfield. A Championship side at Champion Hill, Ace!!!

Danny Carr will be returning to South-East London in July with the Championship club.
The Yorkshire outfit have announced a trio of pre-season matches for their Under 21 Development Squad, which will include a match at Champion Hill, which has been scheduled for Tuesday 23rd July.

 

[Lucy Fur]

Heres the full pre season schedule:

Tuesday 9th July - Home v Dagenham & Redbridge (7.45)
Tuesday 16th July - Home v Crystal Palace(7.45pm)
Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st July - Corinthian-Casuals Tournament
Tuesday 23rd July - Home v Huddersfield Town (7.00)
Wednesday 24th July - Away v Beckenham Town (7.45)
Saturday 27th July - Away v Aveley (3.00)
Tuesday 30th July - Home v Millwall XI
Saturday 3rd August - Away v Moneyfields

Pretty excited about Crystal Palace coming!

 

[editor]

I think we need to have a new thread for the new season. I'll start a new one and add those fixtures.

Come on the Hamlet!

 

[editor]

Here's the new thread: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...2013-2014-season-chat-rumours-reports.310974/